dimreepr Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, Peterkin said: Uh-huh. Was responding to Mistermack's post. And I was responding to yours, to further clarify my position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 4 minutes ago, dimreepr said: And I was responding to yours, Not really.... but I'm used to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 1 minute ago, Peterkin said: Not really.... but I'm used to that. Well, if you insist on snipping the sentence "to further clarify my position.", then I can only conclude, your misunderstandings are deliberate, in order to slip the punch/question perhaps... -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 21 minutes ago, dimreepr said: "to further clarify my position." I understand that your are attempting "to further clarify your position", but your position has no evident relation to the statement I made regarding 20th century secularism; therefore I cannot regard it as a response. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 Just now, Peterkin said: I understand that your are attempting "to further clarify your position", but your position has no evident relation to the statement I made regarding 20th century secularism; therefore I cannot regard it as a response. Rito. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted August 26, 2022 Share Posted August 26, 2022 39 minutes ago, dimreepr said: in order to slip the punch/question perhaps. I don't even know what this means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 "And those who were seen dancing, were thought to be insane by those who could not hear the music." - Friedrich Nietzsche Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 21 hours ago, Peterkin said: I don't even know what this means. It means, religion's not your enemy, "THEY" are... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 1 hour ago, dimreepr said: It means, religion's not your enemy, in order to slip the punch/question perhaps = religion is not your enemy Not a translation that springs automatically to mind. Thank you. I actually knew that, back when I was attempting to explore the various sources and benefits of religious belief. Since then, the subject has shifted in several directions. In none of those areas am I directly involved with a religion, as either friend or foe, either beneficiary or victim, either advocate or denouncer. I find the phenomenon of spirituality, its historical ritualization, co-optation and institutionalization interesting, but have no personal use for it. 2 hours ago, dimreepr said: "THEY" are... Again with the post-cryptic! I have no known enemies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 10 minutes ago, Peterkin said: Again with the post-cryptic! I have no known enemies. Indeed, which makes you so sure that your enemies don't exist, at least on an intellectual level... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 7 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Indeed, which makes you so sure that your enemies don't exist, at least on an intellectual level... I didn't say I was sure; I said no known enemies. Does this have any connection to the topic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 5 minutes ago, Peterkin said: Does this have any connection to the topic? Indeed, see above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted August 27, 2022 Share Posted August 27, 2022 13 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Indeed, see above... Ceiling, cobweb, light-fixture, no God... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 17 hours ago, Peterkin said: Ceiling, cobweb, light-fixture, no God... What's God got to do with it? I'm an atheist, you don't need a God to understand religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 OK, let me try again, from the beginning; Clearly Marx recognised that religion teaches contentment "the opiate of the people" and suggested that is a bad thing, as in it insidiously undermines society and promotes apathy in the face of a government that feeds off them. I disagree with his interpretation of what contentment, and by extention religion, means to society; it's certainly no stretch to say "Contented people = peaceful people" and if we extend the drug analogy, some drugs are more insidious than other's; for instance, a drunken bloke slam's down his pint and says "right, you're going down" because he doesn't agree with a perfectly reasonable thought; meanwhile a stoned bloke says "na, your alright mate, you wanna toke". Bearing in mind, how the Russian revolution worked out; was it better before or after, and for whom? -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted August 28, 2022 Share Posted August 28, 2022 (edited) 6 hours ago, dimreepr said: 'm an atheist, you don't need a God to understand religion. I know that. It is to that end I have studied anthropology, mythology and - to a limited degree - the history of the Christian churches. It's trying to explain what I understand about religion that leads into a quagmire. Besides understanding, there is also attitude and taste. I prefer informed cognition to befuddled 'contentment', and I do not confuse living near a cave, a dumpster and a folly with living well. 3 hours ago, dimreepr said: Clearly Marx recognised that religion teaches contentment "the opiate of the people" Clearly, he explicitly stated that contentment had no part in the people's oppression. 3 hours ago, dimreepr said: suggested that is a bad thing, as in it insidiously undermines society and promotes apathy in the face of a government that feeds off them He did not suggest any such thing. He laid out the mechanisms of industrial capitalism, in which both government and religious institutions were instrumental in preserving the imbalance of power and material wealth and subjugating the masses through fraud and coercion. 3 hours ago, dimreepr said: I disagree with his interpretation of what contentment, and by extention religion, means to society; You're quite welcome to do so, but I wish it were done with sound textual and contextual understanding. In any case, neither your opinion nor mine affects what Marx wrote 180 years ago, in England. It's a reference, not a gospel. 3 hours ago, dimreepr said: Bearing in mind, how the Russian revolution worked out; was it better before or after, and for whom? That has no bearing on Marxist analysis. Edited August 28, 2022 by Peterkin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 23 hours ago, Peterkin said: Besides understanding, there is also attitude and taste. I prefer informed cognition to befuddled 'contentment', and I do not confuse living near a cave, a dumpster and a folly with living well. 23 hours ago, Peterkin said: On 8/28/2022 at 12:20 PM, dimreepr said: Bearing in mind, how the Russian revolution worked out; was it better before or after, and for whom? That has no bearing on Marxist analysis. Really, why not? 23 hours ago, Peterkin said: You're quite welcome to do so, but I wish it were done with sound textual and contextual understanding. In any case, neither your opinion nor mine affects what Marx wrote 180 years ago, in England. It's a reference, not a gospel. Much like the American constitution, it made sense at the time and from his perspective... One day, a cave will seem like heaven and tomorrow we'll forget it's comfort... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 30 minutes ago, dimreepr said: Really, why not? Because neither did the French Revolution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 2 minutes ago, Peterkin said: Because neither did the French Revolution. One day we'll find out... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Peterkin Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 Just now, dimreepr said: One day we'll find out... Good luck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted August 29, 2022 Share Posted August 29, 2022 1 minute ago, Peterkin said: Good luck! And round we go... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
we2 Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 There was a time when I was an Atheist, however, I had an experience that laid me to question creation and I started studying which led to my belief in God today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 7 hours ago, we2 said: There was a time when I was an Atheist, however, I had an experience that laid me to question creation and I started studying which led to my belief in God today. Brain injury? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 7 hours ago, we2 said: I started studying which led to my belief in God today. What on earth did you study? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted September 25, 2022 Share Posted September 25, 2022 9 hours ago, we2 said: There was a time when I was an Atheist, however, I had an experience that laid me to question creation and I started studying which led to my belief in God today. I studied the bible and other religious works to come to the conclusion that lack of belief is the only reasonable stance to take on the issue of gods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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