Jump to content
Saiyan300Warrior

What is left to discover or invent for the hobbyist scientist/engineer?

Recommended Posts

Posted (edited)

Is the discovery/innovation/invention of something novel left to those with specialised knowledge given to them through a full time working career?

I was thinking of becoming an autodidact in the STEM fields and wondering what I could produce through invention/innovation to patent  and make my own/put my name to. Even discover some new kind way of thinking about a scientific problem or mathematics problem (I read there are 5 more million dollar math questions left from Clay University in the US). The invention part I think is more feasible and the scientific discovery is left to those with funding and technology to discover with so they usually have a career in it. Am I correct?

This has been a childhood dream of mine ever since I did high school physics and maths (Invent or innovate and patent an idea, something novel). Life has its twists and turns though, and oh yeah could be nothing much out there... could always be creative with invention/innovation and patent that but seems like even a child could do that. I want to be creative and apply scientific knowledge, just a dream that stuck with me since high school.

Science_and_Invention_Nov_1928_Cover_2.jpg

Edited by Saiyan300Warrior

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What is left to discover or invent for the hobbyist scientist/engineer?

An amateur engineer must therefore have some knowledge, since he can be an scientist/engineer in your title.

Here is the grale in science: Understanding quantum mechanics with an interpretation in classical physics.

But you might think that the simplest things are already discovered and that only the complicated things remain to discover.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2020 at 5:38 PM, Kartazion said:

But you might think that the simplest things are already discovered and that only the complicated things remain to discover.

Like how some people say in science, all the low hanging fruit has been picked now it's time to pick the other harder to reach fruit that may be out there, or maybe even not out there hmmm.... that is the question

Thanks for answering my question :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Do you think there is any novel ideas out there to patent that apply scientific principles opposed to simply being creative?

There are many people in the world so I assume that there are people with a lot of scientific knowledge already and people who actually get paid to research stuff. Right now I think a lot of research is either being done on large scale stuff like the planets, the universe, dark matter, dark energy etc and also micro-scale stuff like stuff in the standard model....

It seems as though that if something novel was out there then there would be someone who already found it. I am talking about the hobbyist inventor mostly, so what is left for the hobbyist inventor to discover and invent that applies scientific principles like Nikola Tesla did, did Tesla just pick the low hanging fruit, is that it? People in the past had it easy while people now have to deal with the harder stuff like quantum mechanics and astronomy? I feel like looking at it bigger picture wise, it is either been done or people are working on it, who get paid to do it. There are also many people out there who don't do R&D stuff and already have a large scientific knowledge base and would seem to know if there was something out there.

Like I said stuff like Nikola Tesla wanted to do and did.... like AC generator (he did), Wireless power transmission at a large scale, vibration thingys (he wanted to do but was either most likely lying, wanted funding to test it out or it would never work with out current scientific knowledge) etc

This is me a person who did high school physics and math, enjoyed it for the most part, and wanted to turn it into some kind of creative yet scientifically principled hobby. I took a step back and thought about it, millions of other people are out there with this more developed hobby and even as a paid job in research and development, so what can I possibly do as a person. I don't even know if saying "Yes it is possible, science is __________ and so there is always possibility"... Yeah I guess but don't you think I am being realistic based on some thinking?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 minutes ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

Do you think there is any novel ideas out there to patent that apply scientific principles opposed to simply being creative?

I don't understand the question. To apply scientific principles to develop a solution to a problem that can then be patented surely requires being creative. What does "simply being creative" mean?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
6 minutes ago, Area54 said:

I don't understand the question. To apply scientific principles to develop a solution to a problem that can then be patented surely requires being creative. What does "simply being creative" mean?

Thanks for replying. I mean like being creative like how even a kid can be creative. Read sometimes kids make stuff that earn them some decent money through creative inventions and they don't really apply scientific principles. Yeah I know being creative takes different forms but just don't want to focus on those kind of "kid like" stuff. Want it to be more like Nikola Tesla stuff...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

Yeah I know being creative takes different forms but just don't want to focus on those kind of "kid like" stuff. Want it to be more like Nikola Tesla stuff...

What do you understand to be Tesla's means of invention? How did you arrive at this understanding?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

Do you think there is any novel ideas out there to patent that apply scientific principles opposed to simply being creative?

 

First, let me say that "simply being creative" is very much more valuable than you make it seem.  But, aside from that, There are undoubtedly many novel ideas that a hobby inventor might discover and patent thereby becoming rich and/or famous.  The difficulty is that the things that have value depend on what is going on in society and the current state of both technology and the needs of society.  To successfully invent you need to be attuned to the needs of society and where those needs are either not being fulfilled or may not even have been yet recognized.  A good example is the invention of the tiny plastic clips that are used to close plastic bags (such as in the bread section of the market, at least in the US).  Invention has a great deal to do with recognizing needs and being at the right place at the right time.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
19 hours ago, Area54 said:

What do you understand to be Tesla's means of invention? How did you arrive at this understanding?

Creativity but it is something more academic as opposed to a a toy car or something. "Academically creative", that sound better?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/12/2020 at 2:51 AM, Area54 said:

What do you understand to be Tesla's means of invention? How did you arrive at this understanding?

I think I found a better word "Applied science"... 

Also I've been using kind of process of elimination based on high school physics I did and seeing what is most likely going to get me some novel idea to invent and patent

1. Use university Physics contents as a guide for the types of physics out there that one can use to invent with

2. If it is something like mechanics where it is just dealing with non electrical objects then most likely not useful information because those stuff is pretty well established and intuition built from high school physics make me think there is nothing there for some novel invention

3. Focus on topics that are more likely to have cracks and holes to exploit in a way, that leaves me with: Electricity and magnetism/circuits, Chemistry and Quantum mechanics

Quantum mechanics requires expensive and powerful tools, its not like I am going to build some nuclear reactor in my backyard for experiments with what I can do and afford... best left to the scientists who work on it for their daily lives, and if they haven't really found anything novel then what makes anyone think i would with what i can do and afford for myself

That leaves me with: Electromagnetic circuitry and Chemistry (E&M i enjoyed in high school) , though maybe added knowledge of quantum mechanics can be useful and a formal science - Machine learning, could always try and find some novel idea app or something more when i look into, seems younger then the rest, so maybe more to find hmmm

Thoughts fellow humans :) Is this called deductive reasoning/intuition?

Edited by Saiyan300Warrior

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/12/2020 at 1:03 PM, Saiyan300Warrior said:

Creativity but it is something more academic as opposed to a a toy car or something. "Academically creative", that sound better?

That is far too vague and general. It means nothing to me. Can you describe the process of what you identify as "academic creation"?

 

On 10/13/2020 at 3:15 PM, Saiyan300Warrior said:

I think I found a better word "Applied science".

Applied science could be used to describe the majority of invention. What makes you think Tesla's approach was different?

 

On 10/13/2020 at 3:15 PM, Saiyan300Warrior said:

Also I've been using kind of process of elimination based on high school physics I did and seeing what is most likely going to get me some novel idea to invent and patent

Many companies make the mistake of trying to sell what they make, rather than what the customer wants/needs. You appear to be about to embark upon a similar error. Rather than figuring out what you might be able to invent you should focus on the largest unanswered needs that could be addressed by new technology.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

C'mon dude you know what I mean, I think you are getting to twisted up in the logic of writing and definitions instead of being some human and not a robot and understanding what I am trying to explain lol...

Toy car, any kind of mechanical non electrical device vs AC generator, remote control. wireless power transmission etc

And as to those companies, I think they have some idea what they are doing or else they wouldn't be a company, I mean yeah supply and demand is common known concept so they must know about it, but maybe they did some research and development and want to try something new? Who knows

But yeah I've been thinking about my question and am going to keep reading different articles about stuff to find bigger picture look at it all. Also do you mean like me trying to find an ideal something when that ideal something could not be reality?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/11/2020 at 9:05 AM, Saiyan300Warrior said:

I mean like being creative like how even a kid can be creative. Read sometimes kids make stuff that earn them some decent money through creative inventions and they don't really apply scientific principles.

Are you asking how you can get rich from science without actually studying it? That's how this reads to me.

Do you feel like you have an intuitive grasp of science that doesn't require all the details and maths and rigor everybody else seems to need? Do you think this intuition gives you the ability to leap far ahead of the others plodding along with their theorems and models, and reach conclusions it takes others a lot longer to reach? 

Do you feel like there are really simple answers to the questions others think are so complex, something anybody could figure out if they start with a clean, uncluttered mind?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
16 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

Are you asking how you can get rich from science without actually studying it? That's how this reads to me.

Do you feel like you have an intuitive grasp of science that doesn't require all the details and maths and rigor everybody else seems to need? Do you think this intuition gives you the ability to leap far ahead of the others plodding along with their theorems and models, and reach conclusions it takes others a lot longer to reach? 

Do you feel like there are really simple answers to the questions others think are so complex, something anybody could figure out if they start with a clean, uncluttered mind?

1. Well it use to be a heart felt dream of mine since high school to invent something that has to do with applied science but that kind of changed when dealing with reality and how money is important for lots of things

2. No I don't think so, but I guess I am trying to cheat the inspirational "never give up" and "it's possible quotes" to what I can narrow down as being an option for my goals

3. What makes you think that? I am just trying to skip some steps in the kind of main frame of stuff using a physics textbook to point me to the Titled stuff and that everything else is kinda details to, so that's why I wrote I would focus on: Electromagnetism, Chemistry, Machine learning etc as opposed to Mechanics as there is nothing there to innovate or invent novel for based on my understanding of physics from highschool...

I'm just looking for ways to rekindle my passion personally whilst dealing with real world issues and also to kind of take skips and jumps over stuff that don't really matter right now (like mechanics and light and optics and thermodynamics) in achieving my goal/s.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

well there are an infinite number of possible inventions to create and discover. The first thing that pops into my mind is "apple-pizza." Invention is just the combination of different things. Now if you are trying to discover "useful" inventions that is up to self interpretation and is a subset of the infinite number of things. And a sub set of infinity is itself infinity. Now for the scientific fields they give you a rule book to follow and tools for design in order to determine if an invention will work or not. Think of a magical spell book for a wizard. Scientists and engineers are basically wizards who have collected this giant tome of knowledge full of rules from observations of reality. Your job as an inventor is to study those rules and come up with new inventions using those rules for objects properties and the phenomenon in which they produce. 

39 minutes ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

1. Well it use to be a heart felt dream of mine since high school to invent something that has to do with applied science but that kind of changed when dealing with reality and how money is important for lots of things

Same, except the money part. Reality is what you make it kid, Just don't go crazy. If you focus on and chase the money you will never invent to your highest ability. You will only invent what investors tell you and they do not really have an imagination outside of money. Its like your going to people who do not understand something and asking them to give you something they do not have.

42 minutes ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

2. No I don't think so, but I guess I am trying to cheat the inspirational "never give up" and "it's possible quotes" to what I can narrow down as being an option for my goals

These quotes are your sails! What makes your heart soar in the darkest of times. You cannot compress the infinite search for the impossible! You are not supposed to narrow it down, that is the point. Use them as your winds of discovery, if you do not like a rule in your tome of knowledge question it and repeat the experiment. If you do not like an invention that has already been made break it and look inside and build something new.

45 minutes ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

3. What makes you think that? I am just trying to skip some steps in the kind of main frame of stuff using a physics textbook to point me to the Titled stuff and that everything else is kinda details to, so that's why I wrote I would focus on: Electromagnetism, Chemistry, Machine learning etc as opposed to Mechanics as there is nothing there to innovate or invent novel for based on my understanding of physics from highschool...

Skipping in the tome is fordiden if you want to invent anything possible. And mechanics is one of the most important parts! You can make robotics, automata, rockets, cars, etc. 

As an scientist you are a discoverer, looking at the tomes to question and explore and explain

As an engineer you are a building of the known

As an inventor you are both and engineer and scientist bottled up into one. 

If you give up, you will never create that lightning in a bottle.

 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
39 minutes ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

I'm just looking for ways to rekindle my passion personally whilst dealing with real world issues and also to kind of take skips and jumps over stuff that don't really matter right now (like mechanics and light and optics and thermodynamics) in achieving my goal/s.

When talking about things that haven't been done before, how can you possibly know what doesn't matter? 

How can you claim there's no more innovation left in Mechanics when we're on the brink of being able to mine asteroids in space?

I mainly wanted to make sure you aren't fooling yourself into thinking you don't need to study science in order to have intuitive leaps regarding it. There are a LOT of those folks around. 

As Area54 mentioned, you may be doing this backwards, setting a nebulous goal to invent something scientific rather than becoming interested in a field of science and broadening your knowledge of it (thus increasing the chances of developing something interesting or even game-changing). Just be careful you aren't trying to catch up in one huge leap to anyone who's been carefully plodding along. I love to write, and I have to remind myself that the goal is to tell a story, not write a best-selling trilogy.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/6/2020 at 2:17 AM, Saiyan300Warrior said:

Is the discovery/innovation/invention of something novel left to those with specialised knowledge given to them through a full time working career?

The notion that someone with only specialized knowledge is capable of invention is limiting in itself.  Need inspires invention and invention is only limited by one's own imagination and determination.  A trite comment I know, but so long as we have needs and a capacity to think and reason, we will invent and innovate to satisfy those needs.  Not just our contemporary needs but also those unforeseen needs that evolve as humanity and our world evolves. Need most often arise as we go about our careers and daily lives with a sense that what we are doing can be done more safely, beneficially or, perhaps, efficiently.  Most often, we intuit invention and innovation step-by-step in small measures from what facilitates our efforts to achieve the safety, benefit, or efficiency we personally desire.  Therefore, if the question is "How do I invent or innovate?", the answer is to begin by searching your own needs and then expand your search for needs that may extend beyond you as your society and this world evolves.  Anticipate future needs, then look for small ways to satisfy those needs.   

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
On 10/19/2020 at 2:11 AM, DrmDoc said:

Need inspires invention and invention is only limited by one's own imagination and determination.

I know people like to say "sky's the limit" or "imagination is limitless so that is the limit" but isn't it more about what is possible based on current laws. Again I am talking more about some novel applied science invention as opposed to simply creative supply for demand inventions like kids toys.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think I am talking about scientific discovery, with a lot of physics having well established scientific laws, if something novel came out that was applied science invention, most likely it would be coupled with a scientific discovery (more likely other way around, scientific discover -> invention) which again leads me to think that it is best left to the scientists who work on this stuff for a living.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

gain I am talking more about some novel applied science invention as opposed to simply creative supply for demand inventions like kids toys.

I think you may be dismissing "creative supply for demand inventions". These are for much more than "kids toys". I suspect you were not around to see or use the mobile telepphone of the early 1990s. They weighed in at about a kilogram, were affectionately called bricks, and had batteries that barely lasted an hour of use. What could you do with them? You could make and receive telephone calls. That was it.

Now how many inventions  do you think it took to produce today's iphone or android? It's hundreds, if not thousands. Devlopments in chip manufacture, in batteries, in software, in memory storage, in touch screens, aerials and more besides. Each one of those simply creative supply for demand. Don't expect to invent something as remarkable as an iphone, but don't rule out the possibility you could invent one of the steps to the next great invention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Just like N Tesla …
You do realize he was well educated, had an eidetic memory, and was a polyglot who spoke 8 languages.
Chances are he was probably bat-shit crazy in his later years.
( death rays, motors running on cosmic rays, and opposition to atomic theory and Einsteinian relativity )

Are you anything like that ? :)

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
3 hours ago, Saiyan300Warrior said:

I think I am talking about scientific discovery, with a lot of physics having well established scientific laws, if something novel came out that was applied science invention, most likely it would be coupled with a scientific discovery (more likely other way around, scientific discover -> invention) which again leads me to think that it is best left to the scientists who work on this stuff for a living.

If I now understand correctly, your question essentially regards whether there remains discoveries in science yet to be found that could lead to new inventions and innovations.  The short answer is a resounding yes!  We have not yet discovered all there is to be discovered in science; therefore, we have not yet reached the end of the potentially new inventions and innovations that new scientific discoveries could provide.  Physics, math, exploration, and experimentation are all likely paths to the discoveries  that will propel future invention.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Register a new account

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.