beecee

I refer to the bible, as an obscure text, written in an obscure age, by obscure men/women.

Considering our evolutionary pathways since those several hundred million years, the chances of that happening are near zero. https://www.quora.com/Could-octopuses-theoretically-evolve-to-become-a-space-faring-civilization-If-yes-what-do-you-think-it-could-look-like My choice of answers ( among those given) is best illustrated as follows..... "The problem with the “Is it possible?” class of questions is that our explorations of the world have taught us that it is unwise to put constraints on what is possible. It may be more useful to address the probability of this happening. The first question may be “why?”. What sort of environmental pressure would direct octopus future evolution in such a way as to make the additional metabolic cost of a larger brain more advantageous to their survival than their present method of laying 60,000 eggs and relying on force of numbers? Their present method has been working rather well for some unknown hundreds of millions of years through a wide range of environmental changes. Now as long as we are rolling our nearly-infinite-sided dice, if somehow they became aware - and aware of an impending planetary cataclysm, that could prompt them to become “space-faring”. Aside from smelting metals, they could have access to a variety of biologically derived structures based on coral or the ability of mollusks to build shells. It is unlikely that we would suddenly see a coral starship rise out of the ocean. It would be more in line with their historical behavior to perhaps build heavily armored “seeds” that would contain millions of dormant eggs. These seeds would remain on the sea floor or protected in bedrock waiting for the Earth to disintegrate whereupon they would be scattered to the stars waiting to fall into some faraway hospitable ocean. This may not be the space-faring civilization you had in mind, but if we ever travel among the stars, the past futurists’ preposterous visions of our present should teach us that it will look nothing like we imagine it today". https://theconversation.com/curious-kids-could-octopuses-evolve-until-they-take-over-the-world-and-travel-to-space-156493 LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL Or this from an evolutionary biologist....... https://www.quora.com/Could-octopuses-ever-evolve-into-a-sapient-species-Why-or-why-not Joel Reid , Science teacher Updated Jun 24, 2019 · Upvoted by Matan Shelomi , Organismic and Evolutionary Biologist and David Bahry , MSc Evolutionary Biology, Carleton University (2021) Originally Answered: Could octopuses ever evolve into a sentient species? Why or why not? No, octopuses are unlikely to evolve into a sapient species … but the reason why is sort of sad. Octopuses are indeed highly intelligent creatures, but they suffer a drawback in their evolution that is so severe that they lack the ability to develop their intelligence past a single generation … they have extremely short lives. An octopus has one purpose in life … babies. A father will die weeks after mating. A mother octopus will starve herself to death rather than leave her brood alone even for a second … and this is actually the most common form of death for an octopus. This means that as the mother dies then the offspring are born, meaning they never transmit their knowledge to the next generation. Octopuses that do not reproduce will soon die anyway. The life expectancy for a healthy, safe, octopus who does not have a brood to watch over reaches up to 5 years. And that is the maximum range. The reality is that octopuses simply do not live long enough, nor have time to pass on their knowledge. Unless they evolve longer lives then they are stuck where they are in terms of intelligence.

Addressing the OP question/s. No you said "I first mentioned them" but yes, perhaps I miss read. See? that wasn't hard, was it? 🤭 Perhaps as others have noted, you need to tone down your weird cryptic style, and nonsensical irrelevant videos, along of course with the obvious hypocrisiy and we may communicate far better. Any evolutionary process that gives us octopuses or tomatoes, ( as we know them) are evolutionarilly constrained from evolving into space faring entities, as per the many, many reasons, in my many, many links. You need to address those. Vitriolic diatribe? 😆 You mean you don't like me raising your many short comings, like, "eg: as per, not answering the OP question....plenty of rhetoric, no substance....weird irrelevant videos....hypocritically whinging about condescending....eventually admitting I am right, but not admitting I am right ☺️....claiming I am prejudice...claiming I am bluffing...irrelevent "poker" analogies...a general weird cryptic style in answering/avoiding answering, and as has been noted by others. All in all, scraping the bottom of the barrel, in a vane effort to promote your life philosophy" Methinks thou dost protest too much.😉 Of course you are! You are expecting me to agree with all your rather argumentive stances in what I have claimed, and the evidence I have supplied to support that...like advanced Alien species, should be able to communicate adequately using that which is universal thoughout the cosmos...eg: mathematics, and geometric illustrations, as per our own Pioneer and Voyager probes, on the off chance that one day some advanced Alien species, may intercept them. And if you believe I am only seeking excuses (actually reasons) that makes me right, then you need to address all the links I have given, and all the reasons why octopuses and tomato plants will not evolve into space faring entities. It's not that hard. The ball is in your court.

As you have shown previously, your gullibility perhaps is what ought to be questioned. Octopuses and/or tomato plants, to become space travellers, is about as possible as spiderman evolving. or perhaps one of his arch enemies....Sandman! Yes, I also enjoyed the Spiderman movies! 🤣 While understanding how hard it is for person as philosophically educated as yourself, to heed the advice of a retired maintenance fitter/machinist/welder, you perhaps ought to research some reputable articles, on the scientific methodology, what a scientific theory is, and how certain it is, and how those same theories gain certainty over time. Just because I reject your life philosophy, is no reason why you should grapple with accepting my reasonable conclusions, particularly with regards to octopuses and tomato plants, and their obvious limitations and evolutionary pathways, (as listed in my many links) preventing them becoming conquerers of planet Earth, and space faring entities. It won't happen. Once you accept that, then perhaps we can both cease the condescending attitudes and disguised insults.

https://phys.org/news/2022-01-life-earth.html Addressing one of the most profoundly unanswered questions in biology, a Rutgers-led team has discovered the structures of proteins that may be responsible for the origins of life in the primordial soup of ancient Earth. The study appears in the journal Science Advances. The researchers explored how primitive life may have originated on our planet from simple, non-living materials. They asked what properties define life as we know it and concluded that anything alive would have needed to collect and use energy, from sources such as the Sun or hydrothermal vents. In molecular terms, this would mean that the ability to shuffle electrons was paramount to life. Since the best elements for electron transfer are metals (think standard electrical wires) and most biological activities are carried out by proteins, the researchers decided to explore the combination of the two—that is, proteins that bind metals. more at link.............. the paper: https://www.science.org/doi/10.1126/sciadv.abj3984 Quantifying structural relationships of metal-binding sites suggests origins of biological electron transfer Abstract Biological redox reactions drive planetary biogeochemical cycles. Using a novel, structure-guided sequence analysis of proteins, we explored the patterns of evolution of enzymes responsible for these reactions. Our analysis reveals that the folds that bind transition metal–containing ligands have similar structural geometry and amino acid sequences across the full diversity of proteins. Similarity across folds reflects the availability of key transition metals over geological time and strongly suggests that transition metal–ligand binding had a small number of common peptide origins. We observe that structures central to our similarity network come primarily from oxidoreductases, suggesting that ancestral peptides may have also facilitated electron transfer reactions. Last, our results reveal that the earliest biologically functional peptides were likely available before the assembly of fully functional protein domains over 3.8 billion years ago. Thus, life is a special, very complex form of motion of matter, but this form did not always exist, and it is not separated from inorganic nature by an impassable abyss; rather, it arose from inorganic nature as a new property in the process of evolution of the world. We must study the history of this evolution if we want to solve the problem of the origin of life. [A. I. Oparin (1)]

Yep, two astrazeneca and Moderna booster shot. My mild short lived symptoms, were imo because of having had the booster.

Australia is now around 78% fully vaxxed, while my state of NSW is 93% fully vaxxed.

Shit, not good...hope all turns out OK for your young one. I was diagnosed positive on the 6th and the worst symptom was a whoozy head, similar to waking up after a heavy night on the piss. I am now out of isolation and suffering no known after effects. Thankfully my wife ( who has a few underlying conditions) appears to have escaped it...so far! We did isolate completely, ( me locked in the rear of our house and my man cave) separate bathrooms, both wearing masks inside and outside, as much as possible, me living on take-a-way and not using the kitchen and imo the most imporatnt of all, rest!!!!

Ho hum! I'm saying its as close to zero as to be impossible, not withstanding your rather childish pretentiousness and inability to admit you were/are wrong as you have been in most of your "conclusions" regarding this thread (and others). eg: as per, not answering the OP question...claiming you were the first to raise octopuses...plenty of rhetoric, no substance....weird irrelevant videos....hypocritically whinging about condescending....eventually admitting I am right, but not admitting I am right ☺️....claiming I am prejudice...claiming I am bluffing...irrelevent "poker" analogies...a general weird cryptic style in answering/avoiding answering, and as has been noted by others. All in all, scraping the bottom of the barrel, in a vane effort to promote your life philosophy. A nice bluff. Octopuses and tomatoes, will never evolve to be space faring entities, as per the many many reasons, in the many, many links I have given, and that you have (along with the OP) yet to refute/answer.

Just two comments on your stuff, (1) I know there is nothing wrong with the metaphor, nor how I use it, and (2) I purposely did not attribute it to Newton, for obvious reasons, not the least being that I have attributed to him many times before and it is commojn knowledge. Again, all we know, and all the knowledge we have gained, is at least in part, based on what our ancestors and fore Fathers, learnt and experienced, validating of course that metaphor, we stand on the shoulders of giants. Certainly words matter, and certainly accuracy in their use matters, and just as certain is the fact that my statement is also accurate, not withstanding your pedant of course. Science is what we know: Philosophy is what we don't know. Bertrand Russell:

Hmmm, you are obviously in the wrong game. But I understand that the world is your stage and you must play a part! I'll stick with the metaphor, as adequate in explaining it as symbolically factual.

Question: What would the diameter of a space station orbiting Earth need to be to create 1G effects at the circumference/perimeter? And what would be the nominal orbital parameter? (I vaguely remember reading/hearing that the actual size needed would make such a venture impractical.)

I won't give you your essay, but it certainly does not change the fact that I believe you could not be anymore wrong with your first statement. eg; Unless of course you are putting yourself in the skin of the first ape that decided to climb down out of the trees and walk upright. Everything from then, (and even before) is knowledge we have gained and use everyday. Hence the dominence of science, in that it is near impossible to go through anyday without using some scientific principle.

As long as it doesn't join forces with octopuses and take over the world! 🤭

Taken as a given. Hmmm, unless one has a brand new hypothesis, on a brand new discovery, I find that would be hard to do. Afterall, we "all" really are, literally standing on the shoulders of giants, are we not? I speak of stellar nucleosynthesis via fusion, and it would be hard not to quote Bethe, or quantum mechanics and Bohr, or Feynman and sub atomic particles..... But I'm only an amateur in the scientific field, so treat me gently...like a virgin if you will. 😉

Sure it does, and obviously the octopuse is among the most surprising.... here's another article... https://www.theguardian.com/environment/shortcuts/2017/sep/18/octlantis-the-underwater-city-built-by-octopuses Hve you heard of the Sydney blue ringed octopus? It's bite/poison can kill a grown man in a short time..................... "At first glance, the blue-ringed octopus looks perfectly innocuous. Its psychedelic coloring and pint-sized packaging make it seem more adorable than alarming. But don’t let its cuddly exterior fool you: this tiny octopus can kill you. And quickly. Native to the Pacific Ocean, the blue-ringed octopus can be found in the soft, sandy bottom of shallow tide pools and coral reefs. When not seeking food or a mate, blue-ringed octopuses often hide in crevices, shells or marine debris. If you catch them outside of their cozy hiding spots, it’s easy to see how the animal gets its name: when threatened, bright blue rings appear all over its body as a warning signal to potential predators". more............

Why not as a sign that one recognises that no matter how good one is at any particular profession, he or she is literally standing on the shoulders of giants...giants worthy of citing and recognition, and incidently, improving on.

Missed nothing actually...octopuses and tomato plants will never evolve into space faring entities, despite if going back further enough (as I referenced a few pages ago) we have a common ancestory. Not really interested in your poker analogy, as per most of the links you have made.. You mean you would like me to give you a free hand, to make as many cryptic comments and errors as you feel like? 😅Not sure why you would see any of that as a prejudice, when more then likely, it is simply your desire for the last say and practising your life philosophy on me. I suppose in some respects I should be grateful. 😉 Certainly no space faring octopuses and/or tomatoes, as per the many reasons you strangely keep overlooking. 🤭 Is that a prejudice? 😜 Let me again try and get through to you, as I believe this is your philosophical aspect, you see the fanatical need to needlessly oppose, under any circumstances...I don't say humans are "smarter" per se then other animals, but we are serendipitiously evolutionary different, in such ways as to be the dominant/apex species, that will one day probably leave his home planet to establish colonies on other worlds... You should think seriously about that statement.

Gee, some progress! But of course our experiences and observations tell us that lifeforms will be based on carbon " https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carbon-based_life " And while there are plenty of evolutionary pathways, branches, etc, we can make reasonably educated guesses as why octopuses and tomato plants will never become space faring entities.

Bingo! Look at those poor invasive lizard people in "War of the Worlds" once our air borne bugs got to them! Closer to home, I have a mate, (and my Mrs) who only ever drink bottled water.Me? I drink it straight from the tap, satisfied that Sydney water takes the necessary precautions in making sure that water is drinkable, and at the standards required in a first world country. Yet in many parts of south east Asia, I would not dare drink the unsanitisied water that the general populace there drink. Bali's belly come to mind!

zero/0 obviously has a value...a zero value, but a value none the less. eg: My bank account may have a value of zero dollars. But give me a cheque worth $1,000,000, and you can shove in as many zeros as you like. In essence, mathematics, the language of physics, does not exist without zero value.

Smarter then us? sure, a distinct possibility, but beings/entities as envisaged in "Contact"? or the greatest sci/fi movie of all time, "2001: A Space Odyssey"? agreed. Still, makes for great story lines. ☺️ You may like to ask dimreeper his choices, (and reasons) to the OP. He is pretending to me that he already has answered, but so far all I am aware of his cryptic philosophical garbage for the most part.

I've heard that suggested in "cloud cities" about 50 kms up orbiting Venus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Colonization_of_Venus

We are insignificant in the grander scheme of things...you know, like the universe. At the same time we are the most significant species on Earth, so much so, that our technological advancement, and lust for power, is affecting Earth itself. Far better than worshiping ourselves, is to help all the other species, that evolved with us, though not to the extent that we have, and help reverse/reduce the detrimental effect/s we are having on Earth. I can do no better then offer the following by a great educator...... "Look again at that dot. That's here. That's home. That's us. On it everyone you love, everyone you know, everyone you ever heard of, every human being who ever was, lived out their lives. The aggregate of our joy and suffering, thousands of confident religions, ideologies, and economic doctrines, every hunter and forager, every hero and coward, every creator and destroyer of civilization, every king and peasant, every young couple in love, every mother and father, hopeful child, inventor and explorer, every teacher of morals, every corrupt politician, every "superstar," every "supreme leader," every saint and sinner in the history of our species lived there--on a mote of dust suspended in a sunbeam. The Earth is a very small stage in a vast cosmic arena. Think of the rivers of blood spilled by all those generals and emperors so that, in glory and triumph, they could become the momentary masters of a fraction of a dot. Think of the endless cruelties visited by the inhabitants of one corner of this pixel on the scarcely distinguishable inhabitants of some other corner, how frequent their misunderstandings, how eager they are to kill one another, how fervent their hatreds. Our posturings, our imagined self-importance, the delusion that we have some privileged position in the Universe, are challenged by this point of pale light. Our planet is a lonely speck in the great enveloping cosmic dark. In our obscurity, in all this vastness, there is no hint that help will come from elsewhere to save us from ourselves. The Earth is the only world known so far to harbor life. There is nowhere else, at least in the near future, to which our species could migrate. Visit, yes. Settle, not yet. Like it or not, for the moment the Earth is where we make our stand. It has been said that astronomy is a humbling and character-building experience. There is perhaps no better demonstration of the folly of human conceits than this distant image of our tiny world. To me, it underscores our responsibility to deal more kindly with one another, and to preserve and cherish the pale blue dot, the only home we've ever known". — Carl Sagan

What are parents for? Are we not supposed to talk to our kids?...tell them right from wrong?...explain to them why?...Reward and/or punish them if they do wrong? Of course even with the traditional two gendered parent family, acting according to the decency and societal teachings and standards of one's society, a kid could still turn out to be a real little arsehole. By the same token, a child from a broken family, that has suffered and been tormented/bullied, may turn out to be a potential savour of the human race.