iNow

Just in hopes of getting us back into the same zip code of being on-topic… the discussion isn’t about moving toward no rules. It’s about updating existing rules so it’s based more on merit and ability… so gender isn’t a threshold requirement for competing that needlessly excludes trans athletes.

Thank her for her service. She sounds pretty badass, and appears to be a pretty good example of exactly the point I’m making. She’s welcome to her opinion, but yes. I’d pushback on this idea of “majority.” Perhaps a plurality, but not necessarily a majority. Sure, some men will be more physically able and have a higher ceiling on their physical capabilities or performance potentials, but probably not “most”… at least not here in the US where beer bellies abound and potato chips are often a side dish beside the cheeseburger and milkshake. Either way, and even if I’m wrong… those performance ceilings I mentioned can be pretty easily accommodated and dealt with by using the sorts of divisions and classifications we’ve referenced, and with the added benefit of rendering moot these discussions about how best to include (or sadly too often to EXCLUDE) trans humans in sports when they wish to compete. Gender need not be a threshold qualification criteria in sport. It really is that simple IMO, and similarly it need not matter what plumbing a person uses when they piss… unless we force it to matter.

Tradition. Status quo. Other similar irrelevancies. Did you know women are allowed in combat now, too? And yes!! They can carry their mates when they’re injured. It’s truly a magical time.

How is this relevant if you proceed using classes and divisions as I and others have been suggesting? You either meet the qualifications to compete or you don’t. Gender doesn’t need to be a threshold criteria.

Given that you’re the OP, how about picking one

No Yea

Unfortunately, the ancient Greeks and romans are no longer around for us to ask. I imagine the reasons were similar to the reasons used to prevent women from voting or owning property, though.

So long as the athlete meets the criteria for the class, you let them compete alongside the gender with which they identify. This isn’t hard. It’s just a game… erm… a sport.

Maybe next you can open a thread on how to make bombs or get away with murdering someone you dislike.

This is a philosophy question, not science. You may as well be asking how time would respond if Harry Potter froze it with his wand.

Except when I’m not. Cheers, bud. Glad that helped ✌️

Is it possible you’d have better luck finding what you’re after here? >> http://blogs.scienceforums.net/ajb/author/ajb/

Incorrect again. The reference was to your ignorance… your lack of knowledge, education, or awareness… on a specific topic. Perhaps you took offense to this, but it’s not an insult. Had Charon instead called you an idiot, stupid, or even a moronic fool, then that would’ve been accurately described as an insult, but none of those things happened. Have you identified the common variable across threads yet?

The tank looks great, Moon! The music, however, makes me feel like I’m in a 1980s aerobics class 😂

There’s too much bad faith argumentation happening in this thread, and at least one member is pretty clearly trolling [/meta] I was simply mimicking your style in hopes of making progress. It’s unfortunate that you don’t seem to share that desire.

How do you know you’re a man, or not homosexual? It’s really no different.

Nobody has denied that. You’re simply wrong in your conclusion that I argued against a strawman. But here we are yet again with you derailing a topic.

Again, no. Just sloppy thinking from you. When I say, “this argument reminds me of this other thing I’ve heard elsewhere,” it is NOT a strawman… but at least you’re consistent with your false assertions and misunderstandings.

Ugh. Same argument like we used to hear about people “choosing” to be gay. Such ridiculous thinking

A few things. Like being gay, I reject that idea that being trans is a choice. Second, we’re not talking about “anybody doing any thing.” We’re talking about trans humans in sports. No, you simply didn’t meet the threshold requirements. It’s no different than what I’m describing for sports. Being male or being female shouldn’t be a threshold requirement.

This is false and based on poor reasoning IMO. I’m thinking of categories like weight classes in wrestling as an easy example. Even when 2 wrestlers are at the exact same weight (the thing which qualifies them to compete in that particular class), they are never equal in skill nor guaranteed a win as the outcome. Same for boxing and many other sports. I’m simply proposing we extend this type of categorization, minus concern for gender. Voila… doesn’t matter if you’re trans, boy, girl, or other. You either qualify for that class or you don’t. Once qualified, you compete against other similarly qualified humans.

I’d agree with you, but then we’d both be wrong. You’ve been corrected on this point above at least 4 distinct times in this thread. It’s a shame you’ve not comprehended those corrections and are simply digging in your heals when shown to be mistaken. Tell me again why setting qualification thresholds for divisions and classes in sports can’t be achieved using metrics which ignore gender…whatever they may be?

Question to the thread: Tell me again why setting qualification thresholds for divisions and classes in sports can’t be achieved using metrics which ignore gender…whatever they may be?

If the space is completely empty, what’s making the assertions about existence or doing the measuring?

I understand your position, and I imagine you’ll eventually come around when the rest of the world finally accepts trans humans as equally deserving and finally treats these assertions of disadvantage as the relics and well intentioned examples of misguided thinking that they are. Note also I’m not much of a fisherman either, and for the same reasons. You and I may have to stay behind to sip some whiskey and laugh together while everyone else puts their lines into the water, competitively or otherwise ✌️