iNow

To make this more explicit since you may have missed the importance of swansonts reply, XY individuals are ALREADY included in female sports because of the way sex chromosomes are expressed. You just don’t realize it / don’t care to fight against it / don’t think the rules need changing to exclude them. The question then becomes: Since some individuals with XY chromosomes are already competing in female sports and you either don’t care or don’t notice them, then why spend so much time and energy focusing so intently on these XY chromosomes only when they belong instead to explicitly transgendered individuals?

There is literally nothing certain about that. Agreed, but we are not certain this is the most accurate way to describe what came before the BB

And is this actually happening and is there ANY evidence confirming that it’s happening, or is this YET ANOTHER fear mongering fictional narrative being baselessly spouted by the folks who hold the opposite position from me on this topic? Let me be clear. I’m not belittling the importance of female sports. I’m belittling the importance of people who think transgendered females aren’t to be treated as females. At that informal scrimmage… it’s moot anyway since we’re not talking about males playing against females in sports. Thank you for reinforcing my central point so clearly that this is about you refusing to accept transgendered females as female. And sadly you refuse to see Jill.

Is there, though?

How, indeed

While that depends entirely on how one defines free will, it’s off topic in a thread about a self-aware Internet. The same might be said about humans, though despite the chemoelectric cascades always occurring throughout our nervous system that’s obviously stretching the meaning of “electronic.”

This is a component of our disagreement, but hardly the fulcrum. Rather, the fulcrum seems to be that I accept transgendered humans as the sex they identify with. JCM, however, seems not to. He seems to see them as doing something wrong by “altering their chemistry” and “choosing to change” and even sometimes assumes nefarious motives suggesting that they’re intentionally trying to trick us so they can be more likely to win medals and plastic trophies when playing sports. Now, this lack of acceptance gets couched in terms of “protecting cisgendered females,” but that strikes me as being a smokescreen composed of horseshit, especially since it’s not being compared against the scale and scope of other existing risks cisgendered female athletes face. The fulcrum is that I and many others accept trans women as women and trans men as men, and this is subsequently why I have no problem whatsoever with them competing in women’s leagues or in men’s leagues based on how they identify. They are female and belong in the female league, and they are male so belong in the male league. They are also human and deserve to be treated as such with dignity and acceptance. It’s that lack of acceptance that they truly are who they say they are and it’s the suggestion that cisgendered fairness must be prioritized over transgendered fairness which constitutes the fulcrum of our disagreement. Incorrect. The foundation is that more trans women are being harmed by their EX-clusion than cisgendered women are being harmed by their IN-clusion. The foundation is that I reject the underlying theme here that trans women somehow aren’t women and I reject the premise that fairness in sports is the actual concern underlying the opposition. Any honest observer (honest with us and honest with themselves) can pretty easily recognize that this whole fairness in sports focus is disingenuous. Fairness in sports is merely being used as another regulatory cudgel to beat transgendered humans back into the shadows, to prevent them from getting too close to sociocultural activities that are part of our self-identities, and to remind them in yet another way (on top of the scores of other existing ways) that they are “different,” they are “other,” and they DON’T belong. I’m calling a spade a spade and suggesting it’s rather stupid and shortsighted to elevate this nebulous and arbitrary concept of athletic fairness above the very real and very meaningful concepts of social acceptance and understanding. This is about choosing to accept people for who and for what they are, even (especially?) in sports.

I don’t suspect physics has a stance on awareness, choosing instead to focus on modeling and measurement

And the larger problem is that the people we need to implement such a change are the very same ones benefiting from its absence.

That’s a fair point… it was a shorthand description from me that may have been unclear given other existing uses of the term “trans humans.” My intent was to reinforce their human-ness more than their trans-ness… and as you rightly mention, they are just human like the rest of us… just like you and me and everyone else… and yet here we are… page after page after page of thread exploring why some people are totally fine including transgendered humans in sports… and why others cannot seem to overcome their psychological opposition to letting them compete unless we first define some sort of “separate but equal” bracket to place them into… and all due to what? Due to the risk that like 6 total female athletes MIGHT not win a cheap trophy or medal if we do so? I find this all so horribly trite and narrow minded TBH, and it’s doubly frustrating when I see it coming so often from so many otherwise extremely intelligent and capable individuals like you. I understand where your head is on this, but I also feel somewhat strongly that you’re on the wrong side of this issue and will realize the same for yourself soon enough once a few more years have passed. Oversimplifying my take, this issue overlaps tremendously with historical opposition to letting blacks and whites marry, or being against school integration, or against gay marriage… this is just the latest tribalistic cultural fight and… FWIW… I would also be here equally arguing against making transgendered individuals drink from separate water fountains or forcing them to use bathrooms that don’t align with the gender with which they identify. You surely agree with me those things would be anathema to who we wish to be as a society, but can’t seem to see the same once sports get involved… specifically female sports. It’s so needlessly paternalistic. Are their differences we should consider and account for? Of course, but are those differences so large as to justify the perpetuation of discrimination and exclusion? Absolutely not. No way, and no how.

But we don’t have to tell them that. There is no requirement nor mandate to do so… unless we force ourselves to say “No!” for seemingly specious and arbitrary reasons.

They are human. They are trans. I called them trans humans. What, pray tell, is your objection and reason for it?

I know you’ve been sent on an involuntary holiday from this site, but just in case you return at some point in the future and read this, my reply is… And??? 🤷

How does this line of questioning get us closer to finding a reasonable solution for accepting trans humans into sports; sports which are themselves currently bifurcated into gender divisions based largely on historical accident and misogyny? If it doesn’t, then I suggest it’s safe to move on and consider it as little more than a distraction preventing us from focusing upon and attempting to improve the actual challenge before us… the actual challenges faced by the trans community which is starving not just for acceptance and understanding, but also security in a world full of people actively trying to target and harm them.

But the god part is just being shoehorned in because you want it there, not because there’s a good reason to put it there or a logical sequence / chain of reasoning landing you on that conclusion. You can see how invalid and irrelevant the god part is by simply replacing the word god in your exact sentence and you could just as easily (and just as validly) say, “because there is no universal truth then a belief I that Harry Potter is a real being from another dimension doesn't seem as silly.” Or… “because there is no universal truth then a belief that the farts of pink unicorns cause erections in leprechauns doesn't seem as silly.”

No (though there used to be tags for merged post identification [mp][/mp] [mp] test Either I’ve forgotten how they work or they work no longer. Just add some dashes like this ____ new post here

Nor do they let in the very most elite trans humans who wish to compete and who clearly meet all qualification thresholds other than gender

Not if Republican state legislators with their redistricting, gerrymandering, and hundreds KC bills making voting far harder / making it easier to prosecute election workers for nonissues / eliminating vote by mail / reducing the number of polling places and shortening voting hours, etc. have anything to say about it

Except, it is. What you shared are world records… examples of ONE runner being best… basically, anecdotes. What Charon shared, however, was based on the largest ever study done on trends in ultra marathons over 23 years across over 15,000 events and it included over 5 MILLION results. But yeah… I agree. If you look at just ONE runner in the top record holding spot, then the claim doesn’t “SEEM” true.

The answers are the same as when you asked these questions 7 months ago: https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/124030-question-plastic-bag-and-humidity/ And when you asked again 5 months ago: https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/124463-question-sound-hammer-damage-objects-in-room/ And then when you asked yet again 4 months ago: https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/124507-question-light-and-uv-and-cardboard-box/ And just in case that wasn’t enough, when you then asked again 2 months ago: https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/125099-question-plastic-rubber-and-low-humidity/ Twice you asked 2 months ago, in fact: https://www.scienceforums.net/topic/125100-sodium-or-calcium-hypochlorite-is-related-to-25-active-chlorine/?tab=comments#comment-1177266

One of my favorite things ever is when someone feels wronged at a completely different location then comes to a totally separate, unconnected, and independent location where I happen be and then ask me why they were wronged at that other place elsewhere. It’s days like these that make me glad to be alive and cause me to seriously reconsider my lack of belief in god(s) or deities. Miracles like this simply cannot have materialistic explanations.

Pentium 4s also didn’t come from deep learning neural networks across hundreds of data centers across continents

To model the behavior of the universe in ways that minimize human bias; to move forward with the recognition that all models are only at best provisional, and with a willingness to reject them when evidence demonstrates that they're flawed and unrepresentative in some way. Science is about building maps, and our task is to recall that all maps can always be made better and also that the map is not the territory.