iNow

It’s curious why that same public doesn’t find it unfair to exclude trans kids. Maybe they should stop watching until something is done to diminish that.

Not necessarily. My suggestion here is those curves already exist within the sex discriminated sports divisions. The easy example is junior varsity versus varsity sports. You either qualify or you do not. All sports have embedded in the athlete selection process skills and competence based thresholds. That doesn't change just because we start caring less whether one was assigned male or assigned female nor whether one is trans. I must first ask you, what is your cut-off point for the definition of "female?"

I had no idea other countries who aren't facing this same problem lacked access to violence in movies, tv, and video games. Except the kids going to these schools are often the ones doing the shooting. I'm not saying security cannot be further improved, just highlighting that it's a mistake to assume the shooters are all people who are not supposed to be there. Even if you did, it would still be live streamed on social media. This idea may have helped in a long forgotten past, but in the modern information environment it's equivalent to a band-aid on compound fracture. I definitely support this, but once more am surprised to learn that other countries who aren't facing this same problem lack issues with mental health in young people and to hear that all children outside the US are psychologically perfect. Agreed, also a skills assessment around firearm safety and use would help. This Texas school had such staff. This is a bit like taking our shoes off at the airport. Feels like it helps, but really doesn't do much beyond change our feelings. Once again, we agree, and it's important to note that the people opposed to such changes are the ones who have the most firearms and the largest cache of ammunition. Don’t children in Japan engage far more with violent movies and video games than US children? Gosh… US genetics must just predispose us to an orders of magnitude higher risk of mental illness. There’s simply NO OTHER plausible explanation for stats like this…. NONE!

Correction: Every time a high profile or mass shooting happens, people THINK guns MIGHT get banned this time so sales surge. School shootings like these move more product for gun manufacturers than any advertisement ever could, and it’s only gotten worse in the 5 years since this graphic was published.

What do you suggest? I’m ONE resident in ONE state with tens of millions of other residents within a country of 50 states. At least 18 of those states have already passed laws preventing trans kids from playing sports, and bills are moving through legislatures of other GOP led states now. I’ve got backbone in spades. So, I will ask again… what do you suggest? How do I “stop that ‘particular piece of legislation’?”

Good for you. I guess this doesn’t matter for the kids growing up elsewhere then. You’re gonna need to be more specific.

You’re essentially asking me to personally define every category threshold for every division of every sport. If I answer for one, you’ll ask me to answer for another ad infinitum. I’m not going to waste my time with that. Right now, trans kids are being excluded, and laws are being written to exclude them. I’m seeking ways to allow them to compete while minimizing impact to existing sports structures and systems. I wish people like you who are passionate and knowledgeable about sports would choose to be an ally in the fight and help achieve that.

And what of sports at the younger levels like schools? Elementary school age... Middle school age... high school age... junior varsity, even varsity? There's no market there, no viewership metric that's relevant... so what then?

*Consistent But... totally agree. I am sometimes inconsistent, as are we all. I personally seek to always be better today than I was yesterday. I often fail, but sometimes succeed, and your feedback is duly noted. Now, as for the thread-relevant on-topic suggestion that relatively simple updates to qualifications and sports divisions might help here... You seemed to accept my proposal at the level of younger athletes in schools, so let's try building on that consensus we've reached and see where it leads.

Why, though... if they meet ALL other criteria and show the same prowess on those other metrics?

Likely bc your post directed explicitly at me had literally fuck all to do with what I've been posting in THIS thread.

Why even use gender, indeed. If someone demonstrates the ability to compete, why indeed do we bother questioning how they identify. That's exactly right. Dear competitor. You qualify. I don't care about your sexuality. Good luck and enjoy the game. It shocks me a bit this is so controversial to so very many of you. Cute jab, but no. Perhaps others were, but you didn't quote others here. You quoted me, and my stance in that thread was to push back on the hypocrisy and complete dismissal of decades of US presidential precedent by calling out Biden for his choice (actually for "pre-announcing" it... a distinction without a difference, IMO). I didn't say he had to choose based on boy/girl/other status or skin color, but that's obviously neither here nor there. Happy to elaborate in that other thread if you wish to continue making this personal with me instead of finding holes in my entirely reasonable position in THIS thread that sports rules are themselves arbitrary and solutions exist / are not terribly onerous to implement if we choose to stop legislating against and excluding trans kids and start finding ways to move beyond our blinders.

Being male is not prerequisite to possessing those qualities. Your position is poor and your argument repetitive, weak, and unconvincing. So what? You seem to be suggesting they CAN be measured, but only based on being male or being female. That’s rather obviously bollocks. You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means. It’s clear you’re not even trying at this point. I’d encourage you to salvage some dignity and either do better or stop posting. Perhaps you’re just drunk? Trying to find a way to give you the benefit of the doubt here, but you’re not making it easy.

Totally fair. Being male or being female, however, aren’t prerequisite for those characteristics and qualities. Quite the contrary. I’m suggesting we focus there instead of whether someone stands or sits whilst taking a piss. And? You act like they’re the pope.

I hear the stone tablets into which they’ve been chiseled and handed down from on-high are quite lovely.

You know, I wasn’t convinced the first 17 times you copy pasted this, but this 18th time really made a difference. It matters not how someone takes a piss. We can proceed by focusing on skill, strength, capability, and desire to compete. Maleness and femaleness are rather irrelevant when setting up divisions and qualification thresholds.

I wonder if we might be able to agree that elite sports right now aren’t the ones being targeted by legislation making it illegal for trans kids to compete. I wonder if we can proceed agreeing that these ideas need first to be tried in elementary school, middle school, and high school where states are currently excluding these kids who already feel excluded, then perhaps address these valid concerns at the elite level a bit later once we’ve had more practice getting things right.

Especially given that sports is literally us humans making up and inventing from scratch arbitrary rules however we see fit.

This current state is needlessly discriminating against trans kids. If it can be improved without sacrificing the other rules of fairness and decorum that cis-gendered kids play within, then why not try? You seem to be saying, “because it’s always been this way and we can never change it” and TBH that doesn’t move me at all nor is it compelling in the least given humanity’s long history of hatred and bigotry.

I absolutely agree with you that “extreme PC being forced down peoples throats” DOESN’T exist here, and certainly not in this thread, but I also know that was just sloppy language and not at all what you meant to convey.

I’m saying remove sexual attributes from your selection criteria and include trans people as a result. All the other same qualifications and prerequisites need not shift in any way whatsoever.

Your response confuses me because I know you’re not being intentionally obtuse.

I’m also curious to know. Segregating based on size, strength, and ability clearly makes sense. Tell me again why we can’t do that while ignoring how someone urinates?

Why can't the threshold for qualification include something about weight and height where it's actually relevant? Why does sex have to play a role at all? Then you should consider no longer posting on sites like these, because it's not your blog. See above.

I said it 5 days ago and 4 days before that, and probably a few other times throughout this thread before then, but…