MigL

Attempting to compare the 'liberalism' ( or lack of ) of Gaza and Israel is akin to D Trump saying "There are good people on both sides".

Wait ...did you just imply I don't know what I'm talking about ? 😄 But seriously, we can both have opinions on the matter, n'est ce pas ? I couldn't agree more. Unfortunately, most of the time, you have to fight for peace.

That would soil and ruin a perfectly good trash can ...

Maybe. But I happen to think that certain political systems/ideologies are prone to abuse, concentrating power at the top and eventually becoming dictatorships. I used Russia and China as examples because they are major players, but every country that has tried Communism has suffered the same fate. We have examples from history about the evils of Fascism, and that system also failed for the exact same reasons; ultimately, a few use the system to control the people and subjugate them. One could make the argument that pure ( Marxian ) Communism has been 'bastardized' and the unadulterated version has never been tried, and could be a utopia, but one could make the same argument for Fascism; that Germany could become soch an economic powerhouse during the 30s, indicates that the system could be beneficial. Too bad A Hitler and his collaborators decided to use that recovery as a war machine for their mad purposes. I'd be happy to continue this historical and political system discussion in another thread, as I fear we are venturing too far off the topic of Israel's supposed 'fascist' behavior with regards to Gaza.

LOL I can't decide whether you're making a slippery slope argument, or if you've become cynical and lost faith in the moral integrity of our fellow citizens. Maybe a little of both ?

If they want to inspire confidence in their product, and demonstrate they are worth the assessed value, they should put the AI in charge of the company. I, myself, think the current state of AI is slightly more relevant than social media, spitting out the 'best' response, chosen by an algorithm ) learning ? ) from a multitube of possibilities. That people are willing to assign that kind of value to this product demonstrates the depths of our gullibility, and the greed of market investors. Or, maybe ... I'm a 'Luddite'. But I guess this rant is off topic ...

Except that the two main places in the world where checks and balances have been totally eroded, and supposedly 'democratically' elected leaders have become rulers for life, are Russia and China, who profess to be Communist. Both Italy and Spain went directly from Monarchies to Fascism, so the population had little, if any, appreciation for Democracy. Germany did, for a few years since the end of WW1, but Hindenberg's Weimar Republic suffered the hyperinflation of the early 20s as well as the Great Depression; couple that with Versailles shame and it's a wonder it lasted as long as it did, even managing to keep going despite the first Nazi 'flirtation', the Biergarten Putsch in Munich, during which about 2000 Nazis marched on the city center, and A Hitler was subsequently arrested, only to much later succeed after winning party status and elections. Italy, on the other hand, having never been a Republic ( since Roman times ) quickly collapsed into Fascism when B Mussolini's similarly numbered 'black shirts' marched on Rome. Looking as the US 'flirtation' of Jan 6, I would think the US would have to have some really major problems, and an almost imminent collapse of the economy, for a similar event to succeed.

Do you think the West's flirting with 'Fascism' the past few years is even comparable to that of Germany, Italy or Spain in the 30s and 40s ? I I think even the US, under D Trump, or today's Hungary are orders of magnitude removed from the brutality of the Nazis and Fascists. Let's not lose historical perspective and make light of what really happened 80 years ago, and how reasonable people were manipulated ( or allowed themselves to be ? ) into becoming 'monsters'.

Nice summary JC. Everyone is quick to criticize Israel's actions, simply because they expect Israel to be 'reasonable' ( a requirement not made of Hamas ), . But no alternative solution is offered. They expect Israel to stop unilaterally, and just keep absorbing Hamas strikes against their population, After victimization throghout the middle ages, the Holocaust, and the constant attacks by neighboring states, how long are Israel, and Jews in general, expected to 'turn the other cheek' ( a New Testament ideology not required of Jews ). That being daid, I do not absolve Israel ( and Jews ) of expansionism and settler violence, but the only solution to the problem seems to be getting rid of all people who want to solve the problem with indiscriminate violence. And, at the moment, Hamas is the worst offender, and first problem that needs resolving. SAs for polls indicating Hamas support among Palestinians, keep in mind that V Putin won the last Russian election with 80 % of the vote.

I doubt it very much. Hamas took over 'governance' of Gaza from the Palestinian Authority by force ( bombings and murders ) almost 20 years ago. There has been no semblance of governance, and certainly no elections, since. International aid, meant for the population ( and the children INow mentioned ) is stockpiled by Hamas to take care of their fighters when the IDF retaliates, and they have to scurry like rats to their underground tunnels and bunkers, conveniently located under hospitals and schools, where the Palestinian population ( and the children INow mentioned ) can be collateral of the IDF retaliation, and Hamas has another propaganda victory for fools and anti-Semites to protest/boycott Israel about.

My myopia was 'fixed' when I had cataract surgery;my up-close vision now needs correction. But I do know History pretty well .. Israel was attacked by neighbors in 5 of the 6 wars of the last 60 years. The one exception is when they took out the airfields of a couuntry that was preparing to attack them ( Egypt expelled UN peacekeepers and built up forces in the Sinai, along with collaborating Arab states and even the USSR ). See the 6 day war of 1967.

Off the top of my head, I can think of two COUNTRIES smaller than Gaza that are very successful; San Marino and the Vatican. Thay have 'porous' borders, like Gaza used to have prior to 2005, but no one would call them 'open air prisons' Sometimes, when you lose a war that you started, you need to choose how to go forward; whether to seek 'revenge' on the victors, as Germany chose to do after Versailles, or rebuild and earn the respect of the world, as Japan ( and West Germany ) did after WW2. Maybe that choice should have been made by Palestinians and other Arabs who were occupied by Israel after 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, and 2006 when Hamas took over. Maybe someday they'll learn ... Incidentally, contrary to Mistermack's assertions, it is a known fact that Israel has had nuclear capabilities for some 30odd years, and they have never used them. Does anyone doubt that, if given similar capability, Hamas ( who ARE Palestinian ) would not use them against Israel ? Does anyone think they care how many of their own people they would incinerate ? Sure, some Israelis are expansionists and greedy, but some Palestinians ( Hamas ) are hell-bent on revenge, no matter what the cost. Some members, String Junky and TheVat, are making excuses for them, even going as far as blaming the US for defending a country that has been attacked by its neighbors 6 times in the last 60 years. I won't even consider Mistermack' s views; he/she simply hates Israelis/Jews, or anyone who thinks everyone in the region has a right to live in peace and not be subject to terror.

Let me give it shot ... I apologize for not reading the previous 6 pages but I'm recuperating from eye surgery ( Ahmed valve installed for Glaucoma control ) and gave up after the lengthy title. A variable light speed to explain numerous 'problems' with modern Astrophysics, such as the horizon problem,, expansion and red-shift was first proposed by R Dicke, in the 50s. The biggest drawback is that there are simpler solutions that don't 'break' Physics like a variable speed of light would. Variable c ( with time, energy, distance, etc. ) would eliminate two very important 'pillars' of modern Physics, Lorentz invariance and CPT symmetry, and all Physics would come crashing down. This is still really hard to type, even with 150% screen magnification, so I'll let PBS explain in more detail

Thank you CharoonY for the detailed timeline of events; I only posted the 'Cole's Notes' version. Thank you String Junky and Sensei for making me aware ( more than I already am ) that every state has their own fanatics, and how willing some people are to follow them.

The full equation is E = root [(Mc2)2 + (pc)2] as Swansont has pointed out numerous times past. The first tern Mc2 applies to massive stationary objects. The second term pc is added when that object is moving, and p denotes the momentum. Obviously, for light, which is always moving at c and M is zero, the momentum term is the only one applicable.

Sorry if I gave that impression. You haven't offended me . ( not since the summer ) Glad to see this thread is finally taking a more even handed approach and Mistermack is showing his true colors. Palestinians wanted their own state, so Israel pulled out of Gaza in 2005 leaving the PA as government; with a border ( fence ) separating the two states. Gaza could have built resorts along its beautiful beaches, drilled for off-shore gas, and have a thriving economy. They didn't even try. Instead they rejected the PA and 'elected' Hamas. A government that hasn't had any elections since, stockpiles food and medicine for its fighters, and builds its hideouts under schools and hospitals. Never mind the people. Some 'government' ! I remember the absurdity of D Trump saying "There are good people on both sides", well, in this case the opposite is certainly true. Palestinians elect Hamas, and Israelis elect Netanyahu and his kind. "There are bad people on both sides"

It has momentum.

1 - The Bible is not an historical document. Anyone who thinks so is ignorant. 2 - Look at your data set String Junky. Original population was mostly Jewish. About the 4th or 5th century, a lot of them started converting to Christianity. ( Jesus Christ supposedly was a Jew, as were his 'earthly' parents ) It was only after the Islamic conquests circa 800 that Muslims became dominant. What is historically documented, is the fact that the prophet Mohamad was exiled from Mecca, so he went to Medina, from where He and his followers raided caravans crossing the Arabian peninsula, in order to get funds to build an army and take Mecca. 3 - Please enlighten me, INow. Would these be the same people who complained 75 years ago when 6 Million of them were put to death ; because I haven't heard of them either.

I wonder why nobody complained when all the Jews were displaced from their ancestral homeland leaving just 0.3 % while the rest were dispersed all over the world.

!20 years ? If you go back 1200 Years there are no Muslims in the area, as Islam was just starting out. They were mostly all Jews inhabiting what was called Judea, any others were nomadic peoples who moved about the Middle East. Subsequently, Islamic armies conquered the Middle East, as far as the Punjab to the East, and North Africa and Spain to te West. Exactly how recent did YOU want to consider ? I'm willing to go as far back as you like.

A lot can change in a year. D Trump can ( hopefully ) be in jail.

Maybe I'm wrong, but can you find me a post in these 6 pages of posts where someone ( other than me ) mentions them and their release ?

Maybe someone should mediate the release of the kidnapped hostages before trying to mediate a cease-fire. Everyone seems to have forgotten about them, but that is exactly the condition A Blinken mentioned for any cease-fire discussions to occur.

Now you claim that B Netanyahu's drastic fall in popularity is evidence that Oct 7 was something 'darker' than negligence. Previously you claimed in the same postwhere you claimed thay it was 'obvious to you' that little effort was made to repel the Oct 7 attack and let 1400 people die, as an excuse to wage war on Gaza. What will you claim next ? That since the sky is blue, that must be evidence of nefarious motives by the Israelis ? ( the scatter-gun approach to discussion; throw shit against the wall, and see what sticks )

And we can discuss the policies that Israel used to get to the situation we are in today. As well as the policies by Arab neighbors, and the Palestinians themselves, who contributed to the mess. You might even find that we agree on a lot of things. But that is not what I object to in Mistermack's post. He makes the explicit claim that Israel welcomed the death of 1400 of their people in a bloody massacre, as well as the kidnapping of over 200 people, who have not been released yet, all as an excuse to gain a little sliver of nearly worthless land. That's like saying it's a good thing Hitler killed 6 Million Jews as it gave the Allies an excuse to wage WW2 more determinately and finally win it.