redkiss Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 What? Is there a question here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 Can I use Doppler or I have to look ZERO ? I have one source and one sensor but what about for example 4 sensors ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I think you need to explain a bit more. Can you use Doppler for what? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) sorry I want to measure table's position respect to what ? exist Doppler ? exist ZERO ??? help me please I studing about GPS technology I have big problem I see RED or there is ZERO and respect to what table is moving ? MORE LONG ARM ??? = MORE RED ??? or MORE ZERO ?? sorry ??? Edited March 12, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 sorry I want to measure table's position respect to what ? exist Doppler ? exist ZERO ??? help me please I studing about GPS technology I have big problem I see RED or there is ZERO and respect to what table is moving ? MORE LONG ARM ??? = MORE RED ??? or MORE ZERO ?? sorry ??? I'm going to suggest that no one knows how to decipher what you are trying to do, or ask. What are you trying to find out, or achieve? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 I wont to prepare test ( what will be if Arm will be more longer /shorter ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Klaynos Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I wont to prepare test ( what will be if Arm will be more longer /shorter ) What kind of test? Which arm? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I wont to prepare test ( what will be if Arm will be more longer /shorter ) You seem to think that we already understand what you are asking. We do not. Please start from the beginning. Tell us what you want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mordred Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Well I'm guessing this is a homework question on what will be the redshift of the arm compared to the craft. Or to each sensor position. Edited March 12, 2016 by Mordred Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) The Michelson–Morley experiment was performed over the spring and summer of 1887 by Albert A. Michelson and Edward W. Morley at what is now Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and published in November of the same year.[1] It compared the speed of light in perpendicular directions, in an attempt to detect the relative motion of matter through the stationary luminiferous aether ("aether wind"). The result was negative, in that the expected difference between the speed of light in the direction of movement through the presumed aether, and the speed at right angles, was found not to exist; this result is generally considered to be the first strong evidence against the then-prevalent aether theory, and initiated a line of research that eventually led to special relativity, which rules out a stationary aether.[A 1] The experiment has been referred to as "the moving-off point for the theoretical aspects of the Second Scientific Revolution".[A 2] Michelson–Morley type experiments have been repeated many times with steadily increasing sensitivity. These include experiments from 1902 to 1905, and a series of experiments in the 1920s. More recent optical resonator experiments confirmed the absence of any aether wind at the 10−17 level.[2][3] Together with the Ives–Stilwell and Kennedy–Thorndike experiments, Michelson–Morley type experiments form one of the fundamental tests of special relativity theory.[A 3] OK please help me evaluate how long ARM I must build to measure RED shift ! I speak here only about 360/24h speed later we can add more arms ( more mirrors ) source--------sensor Sorry mirror = sensor Source = EM wave ( radio, light ,.. ) How long arm is good to test RED ? LIGO interferometer what they Showed ? Edited March 12, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Endy0816 Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 Are you talking about the arms in an interferometer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 The Michelson–Morley experiment was performed over the spring and summer of 1887 by Albert A. Michelson and Edward W. Morley at what is now Case Western Reserve University in Cleveland, Ohio, and published in November of the same year.[1] It compared the speed of light in perpendicular directions, in an attempt to detect the relative motion of matter through the stationary luminiferous aether ("aether wind"). The result was negative, in that the expected difference between the speed of light in the direction of movement through the presumed aether, and the speed at right angles, was found not to exist; this result is generally considered to be the first strong evidence against the then-prevalent aether theory, and initiated a line of research that eventually led to special relativity, which rules out a stationary aether.[A 1] The experiment has been referred to as "the moving-off point for the theoretical aspects of the Second Scientific Revolution".[A 2] Michelson–Morley type experiments have been repeated many times with steadily increasing sensitivity. These include experiments from 1902 to 1905, and a series of experiments in the 1920s. More recent optical resonator experiments confirmed the absence of any aether wind at the 10−17 level.[2][3] Together with the Ives–Stilwell and Kennedy–Thorndike experiments, Michelson–Morley type experiments form one of the fundamental tests of special relativity theory.[A 3] OK please help me evaluate how long ARM I must build to measure RED shift ! I speak here only about 360/24h speed later we can add more arms ( more mirrors ) source--------sensor Sorry mirror = sensor Source = EM wave ( radio, light ,.. ) Homework ? How long arm is good to test RED ? LIGO interferometer what they Showed ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 I understand that English isn't your first language, but there is a lot you aren't including in your question. You mention GPS, but don't explain how that fits in. You want to measure the red shift, but the red shift of what signal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) Sorry ! mirror = detector ( sensor ) source ------------------sensor I'm sorry it is GPS ? sorry Radio---------------------------Signal detector ( after detection we have emission ) sorry sorry stupid question ??? ??? Laser --------distance--------mirror = radio signal ---------distance-----------detector INTERFEROMETER's ARM = RADIO's ARM ? Radio Signal = Light = EM wave ? I'm sorry I hope You are able read my post in english I want to measure in home 360/24h speed I'm trying to find distance to measure RED ? I have huge problem ? it is possible ? or we have ZERO ? Hey ??? Edited March 12, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 GPS, Ligo and the aether experiments have totally different purposes. We would like to help, but do not understand. Perhaps Google translate would help. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 12, 2016 Author Share Posted March 12, 2016 (edited) i want to measure in home 360/24h speed Am I able read Earth's motion ? do we have Doppler ? radio wave = light wave ? = EM signal ? what is better ONE arm or 4 arms ? ( precission ?) http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00765/8g7j8biccn4d.jpg sorry sorry DO WE HAVE ZERO in Michelson Morley ? ( I wan to build my own tool I can not understand how they proved ZERO ? ) In one ARM i can see DOPPLER 4 arms I can not understand how it works How 4 arms showing ZERO ? Edited March 12, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 12, 2016 Share Posted March 12, 2016 i want to measure in home 360/24h speed Am I able read Earth's motion ? Do you want to measure the speed of Earth's rotation, speed of revolution around the sun, or combined motion of Earth, the Sun orbiting around the Milky Way Galaxy, or something else? do we have Doppler ?Who is "we." The Doppler effect occurs naturally from light coming from stars, and can be used to measure their speed because we can measure the receiving wavelength and can know the transmitted wave length from spectrographic studies. You might use the Doppler effect to measure the rotation speed of the Earth, if that is your purpose. However, the change in wavelength of light due to the rotation of the Earth would be quite small, about 0.0001%. I don't know what it would take to measure that amount of wavelength difference. radio wave = light wave ? = EM signal ?Yes, light and radio waves are EM radiation, also x-rays, infrared, and ultraviolet. what is better ONE arm or 4 arms ? ( precission ?) http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00765/8g7j8biccn4d.jpg I think this device will not do what you want. The got zero because they were trying to measure something (aether) that does not exist. The speed of light is always the same no matter where it comes from, and no matter the direction or speed of the source. The equipment sown in the picture has the light source on the device, which means it will never measure a Doppler effect. You would need a light source not on the Earth to measure a Doppler effect caused by motion of the Earth. Since the Earth is spinning on its axis and orbiting the Sun, and the Sun is orbiting the Galaxy, it would be difficult to measure each of these independently. sorry sorryThere is no need to apologize; you have done nothing wrong. DO WE HAVE ZERO in Michelson Morley ? ( I wan to build my own tool I can not understand how they proved ZERO ? ) In one ARM i can see DOPPLER 4 arms I can not understand how it works How 4 arms showing ZERO ? I think the Michelson Morley equipment will not do what you want. I hope I have answered the right questions. If not, ask again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) THX I studing google translator ... ... ..( actualy 5%.... .. ... "Do you want to measure the speed of Earth's rotation, speed of revolution around the sun, or combined motion of Earth, the Sun orbiting around the Milky Way Galaxy, or something else?" On ilustration I showed only one speed 360/24h (Earth's rotation) I did this to better explain problem ( to better show problem for single arm) Real system will be able read all speeds that globe has got ! " Who is "we." The Doppler effect occurs naturally from light coming from stars, and can be used to measure their speed because we can measure the receiving wavelength and can know the transmitted wave length from spectrographic studies. " ..........................................100%dark box........................................... ...................source-------------L-----------------------sensor..................... ............................................................................................................. I want to separate my tool ( ZERO OUTSIDE OBJECTS ) only single arm ( dark box is empty VACUUM ) Dark box = 100% dark ( zero outside EM waves ) Source - BULB , Radio Sensor - OLD FILM ( or Digital camera 16 Mpx matrix ) , ANTEN MY QUESTION L= 1 metr L= 3000 meters ( LIGO LAB ) DO WE HAVE DOOPLER ? HOW DEEP RED we have ? 1 meter arm please compare to 3000 meters ARM please study very very slowly RIGHT DOWN CORNER http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00765/8g7j8biccn4d.jpg what will be if ROTATION is CONSTANT and I changing only distance SOURCE ----SENSOR Fact A = we have ZERO inside DARK BOX Fact B = we have RED SHIFT inside DARK BOX Fact C - more long arm is giving more DEEP RED A ) true/false ? B) true/ false ? C) true/false ? Fact D - Michelson Morley saw ZERO D) true/false Homework : I already made test .. I can show You resoults ... ( I hope You will evaluate all without real datas) I'm sorry I don't know what I measured ( I not joking ) I need help someone need explain me what see sensor ! Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Firstly, experiments like MIchelson-Morley and LIGO use two arms because they use interferometry in order to measure very small differences (fractions of the wavelength of light). You are not going to be able to make very accurate measurements with one arm. Look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interferometry Maybe it has a page in your language. Secondly, there will be no Doppler effect. That happens when there is a difference in speed between the source and the receiver. That is not the case with an arm with a transmitter at one end, and a sensor at the other. For example, you hear the Doppler effect when a car drives past you, but not when you are driving at the same speed as the other cars. You mention GPS in the title (I don't know why). That is one case where the Doppler effect is important. The receivers have to scan a wide range of frequencies, either side of the transmitted signal, because the satellite could be moving towards or away from the receiver. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) "Secondly, there will be no Doppler effect. That happens when there is a difference in speed between the source and the receiver. That is not the case with an arm with a transmitter at one end, and a sensor at the other." ................................................................................................................................................................^ .................................................^V1.........................................................................................................^V2 x---------------R------------------Source----------------------------------------L-------------------------------------Sensor V1 = V2 ? Sorry langue problem "CROSS" DOPPLER ( please translate this in google in YOUR langue ) https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Efekt_Dopplera RED SHIFT I'm SURE I MEASURED IT probem is RESPECT TO WHAT ? and problem is Michelson Morley ? PLEASE DO THIS HOMEWORK ( it is very important to take own pencil and check all own hand !) THX I studing google translator ... ... ..( actualy 5%.... .. ... "Do you want to measure the speed of Earth's rotation, speed of revolution around the sun, or combined motion of Earth, the Sun orbiting around the Milky Way Galaxy, or something else?" On ilustration I showed only one speed 360/24h (Earth's rotation) I did this to better explain problem ( to better show problem for single arm) Real system will be able read all speeds that globe has got ! " Who is "we." The Doppler effect occurs naturally from light coming from stars, and can be used to measure their speed because we can measure the receiving wavelength and can know the transmitted wave length from spectrographic studies. " ..........................................100%dark box........................................... ...................source-------------L-----------------------sensor..................... ............................................................................................................. I want to separate my tool ( ZERO OUTSIDE OBJECTS ) only single arm ( dark box is empty VACUUM ) Dark box = 100% dark ( zero outside EM waves ) Source - BULB , Radio Sensor - OLD FILM ( or Digital camera 16 Mpx matrix ) , ANTEN MY QUESTION L= 1 metr L= 3000 meters ( LIGO LAB ) DO WE HAVE DOOPLER ? HOW DEEP RED we have ? 1 meter arm please compare to 3000 meters ARM please study very very slowly RIGHT DOWN CORNER http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00765/8g7j8biccn4d.jpg what will be if ROTATION is CONSTANT and I changing only distance SOURCE ----SENSOR Fact A = we have ZERO inside DARK BOX Fact B = we have RED SHIFT inside DARK BOX Fact C - more long arm is giving more DEEP RED A ) true/false ? B) true/ false ? C) true/false ? Fact D - Michelson Morley saw ZERO D) true/false Homework : I already made test .. I can show You resoults ... ( I hope You will evaluate all without real datas) I'm sorry I don't know what I measured ( I not joking ) I need help someone need explain me what see sensor ! Firstly, experiments like MIchelson-Morley and LIGO use two arms because they use interferometry in order to measure very small differences (fractions of the wavelength of light). You are not going to be able to make very accurate measurements with one arm. Look here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interferometry Maybe it has a page in your language. LOGICA and MATHEMATIC and PHYSICS Mathematica ( fact X) I'm able evaluate Doppler ) Physics ( fact Y) micheslon morley = DOPPLER) if true is X also true is Y You not trust me that I see red ! let me help You evaluate why I see red ! ( please do homework it is very very important learn Your own not read this what other writing ) small help to You ( please do HOMEWORK ) Mathematica LOGICA A ) I TRUST REDKISS B ) I TRUST MICHELSON MORLEY and EINSTEIN C) I TRUST LIGO ( they invest 300 000 000 USD - it is fact ) D) I made HOMEWORK Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 "Physics ( fact Y) micheslon morley = DOPPLER) " No, not really, a MM interferometer still works when it's not moving. Instead of posting lots of pictures, please explain what question you want an answer to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redkiss Posted March 13, 2016 Author Share Posted March 13, 2016 (edited) homework more help "Physics ( fact Y) micheslon morley = DOPPLER) " No, not really, a MM interferometer still works when it's not moving. Instead of posting lots of pictures, please explain what question you want an answer to. PLEASE DO HOMEWORK ! please not read single fact ! (above I showed You 5 years my work ) Please not trust me please please do Homework ! ( i will be happy after You finish you own work !) More help ( TEMPERATURE and IDEAL LINE ? not exist FLAT LINE and FLAT physics ! INVERSE SQUARE LAW ! ) "Physics ( fact Y) micheslon morley = DOPPLER) " No, not really, a MM interferometer still works when it's not moving. Instead of posting lots of pictures, please explain what question you want an answer to. please evaluate Doppler ONLY for ONE SINGLE ARM and only for one speed ! ( RIGHT DOWN CORNER ) STILL WORKS ? not moving ? not moving respect to what ? I showed You Maxwell DARK BOX 100% source--------------1m-------------sensor source--------------1000m-------------sensor How big force is pushing sensor ? ( colour ) Where force is hiting Sensor ? ( Ideal center hit ? TORQUE ? exist or not exist ? ) Edited March 13, 2016 by redkiss Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 Why all the pointless pictures? It took me a while to find your actual question in all that clutter. "not moving respect to what ?" WRT the observer. And don't tell us to do our homework The idea doesn't make sense. If you are asking us for help then it's because you know more than you do. So you know that we have already done our homework. You are the one who needs to learn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EdEarl Posted March 13, 2016 Share Posted March 13, 2016 redkiss QUESTIONS edearl answersL= 1 metrL= 3000 meters ( LIGO LAB )DO WE HAVE DOOPLER ? noHOW DEEP RED we have ? 1 meter arm please compare to 3000 meters ARM please study very very slowly RIGHT DOWN CORNER http://images.tinypic.pl/i/00765/8g7j8biccn4d.jpgwhat will be if ROTATION is CONSTANTand I changing only distance SOURCE ----SENSOR Fact A = we have ZERO inside DARK BOX trueFact B = we have RED SHIFT inside DARK BOX falseFact C - more long arm is giving more DEEP RED falseA ) true/false ?B) true/ false ?C) true/false ? Fact D - Michelson Morley saw ZERO trueD) true/false Homework :I already made test .. I can show You resoults ... ( I hope You will evaluate all without real datas) I'm sorry I don't know what I measured ( I not joking ) I need help someone need explain me what see sensor ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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