Airbrush Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 (edited) Yesterday this 21 year old went into a church, sat for an hour listening to Bible study, then shot and killed 9 people. How long until we will hear discussion in the news about his PARENTS? His parents must be very embarassed, since they created a monster. This psychopathic boy is probably the product of bad parenting, or no parenting. It will be very interesting to know more about his parents. The origin of most problems in the world is bad parenting, or non-parenting. "...Roof's father gave him a .45-caliber pistol for his birthday, according to uncle Charles Cowles." http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/06/18/charleston-suspect-is-dylann-roof.html# <mod edit - I have changed the thread title. He is a suspect at present> Edited June 18, 2015 by imatfaal Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 How long until we will hear discussion in the news about his PARENTS? His parents must be very embarassed, since they created a monster. This psychopathic boy is probably the product of bad parenting, or no parenting. It will be very interesting to know more about his parents. The origin of most problems in the world is bad parenting, or non-parenting. Regardless of any facts that come out of the case, and without making any judgments about it before I know them, I just have to say that this is a horrible OP for a science discussion forum. You ask when his parents will be interviewed, and then you decide how they feel and what they did. You claim it will be interesting to know more about them, and then you decide it's all about them being bad parents. Cases like this need rational thought, not knee-jerk emotional responses. It's a horrible tragedy, but let's not pass out nooses and torches until we have a discussion, OK? 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Akin to rubber-necking a car crash. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Regardless of any facts that come out of the case, and without making any judgments about it before I know them, I just have to say that this is a horrible OP for a science discussion forum. You ask when his parents will be interviewed, and then you decide how they feel and what they did. You claim it will be interesting to know more about them, and then you decide it's all about them being bad parents. Cases like this need rational thought, not knee-jerk emotional responses. It's a horrible tragedy, but let's not pass out nooses and torches until we have a discussion, OK? Yes, it's too easy to forget we are talking about real people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEngelbrecht Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 I can offer you a potential answer. Random guess about the (suspected) perpetrator ... he couldn't find a girlfriend. 'Cause that's the mutual trait for 95+ percent of all terrorists or school shooters or any maniac picking up a weapon and drawing blood; they don't have a mate. It's also the predominant reason why any young male want to join armed forces around the world, which explains the high number of rapes following any armed conflict. (There was that rape and killing of a 16 year-old girl plus her family in Iraq some years back perpetrated by US GI's.) On some Freudian-slash-Darwinian level, particularly young human males will turn to brutal violence, in a subconscious effort to better their chances of finding a mate, often (aparently) by killing off other males. Psychologists have offered an analogy of similar violent behavior in male chimps. There are already a host of analogies between human behavior and chimp behavior; both are pack animals, both form close friendships, both have a complex social structure of the pack; and they're the only known two species on planet earth, that conduct actual warfare against its own species, in both cases almost exclusively perpetrated by males. This is also visible in chimp males dominating females aggressively, which unfortunately seems to increase their chances of siring. http://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2014/09/18/chimpanzees-are-natural-born-killers-study-says-and-they-prefer-mob-violence/ http://www.livescience.com/48743-aggressive-chimps-reproduce-more.html It makes all the sense in the world to consider analogies between human and chimps in terms of e.g. violent behavior in what ever form; humans and chimps are already each other's closest cousins in the mammalian clade; chimps are genetically closer related to humans than they are to gorillas. Why wouldn't their violence have a mutual ethological origin, in some common ancestor 5-7 million years old? Also because it seems to be inherent and predictable. The natural violence of chimp males is sometimes suffered by zoo keepers and the like who walk in to the same male chimp they've known since birth, and suddenly they are mauled quite ferosciously, because now this male chimp has become sexually active. There are stories (1 2) of people not having faces or genitals now, because they were attacked by male chimps in the fertile age. Aparently, this brutal violence is natural in these otherwise cute chimpanzees, our nearest biological cousins. And I'm sorry to say, but it would offer a very likely cause of all human violence. That's it's about sex (or lack of it), if not only on a subconscious level. Of course, the human perpetrators always dig up some random excuse for turning to blood, whether it's racism or religion or politics or (if you're Ted Kaczinsky) ecology! I say no. It's about sex. Always about sex. All in the name of procreation, which is a very strong survival instinct in all life. To further one's genes by any means necessary. 'Cause our subconscious knows we're gonna die and that there is no afterlife, so we have to multiply. This (suspected) kid might as well have gunned down a school, or shot up a political meeting (1 2), or bombed random people he blamed for his personal problems, but instead his subconscious dug up excuses for killing another ethnicity daring to have a better life than himself. Basically because they got laid, and he didn't. And it's now just the highly publicised acts of grusome violence; you can't go clubbing in any major city in the dancing world without risiking being shived by some random yahoo (that is, if anything, the cultural scene for human mating behavior, innit?); you still can't go to a soccer game in many European countries without risking the wrong end of a Stanley, either. And I'm also sorry to say, that sometimes it actually seems to work for violent male human beings, in terms of landing females after the blood. 80 year old Charles Manson still attracks females with wedding proposals from behind the prison walls; that's his reward for instigating the gutting of a pregnant Hollywood actress, 'cause "then we'll be famous!" and then aparently "Score!" Adolf Hitler preached racist hate and madness, as his excuse for coming home from the war and not finding a mate in the 1920s; that landed him a 19 year old Eva Braun (after he twittled his niece, so she shot herself, incidentally). London girls (in the fertile age) recently left their families to become wives of ISIL psychos. And recently, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev attracts teenage girls as well, "Yes, but he's been on the cover of Rolling Stone, Mama!"; that's his reward for bombing a marathon race, killing e.g. an eight year old boy in the process. This shouldn't be possible, should it? These types of people shouldn't be attracting any females, should they? But all these males must've had their reptilian brain telling them the same subconscious message as in violent male chimps: "If I draw blood, I'll increase my chances of gettin' some." And sadly, that theory seems to pan out. There are two parties in this problem, I have to say. This seems to be buried in human mating behavior, for whatever sick biological reason. This is why we'll get World War III. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waitforufo Posted June 18, 2015 Share Posted June 18, 2015 Yesterday this 21 year old went into a church, sat for an hour listening to Bible study, then shot and killed 9 people. How long until we will hear discussion in the news about his PARENTS? His parents must be very embarassed, since they created a monster. This psychopathic boy is probably the product of bad parenting, or no parenting. It will be very interesting to know more about his parents. The origin of most problems in the world is bad parenting, or non-parenting. "...Roof's father gave him a .45-caliber pistol for his birthday, according to uncle Charles Cowles." http://www.thedailybeast.com/cheats/2015/06/18/charleston-suspect-is-dylann-roof.html# <mod edit - I have changed the thread title. He is a suspect at present> So you are saying that it's not his fault he gunned down nine people because his mama didn't change is diapers enough when he was a baby? So do you think his parents should go to the gallows with him? My father gave me guns on my 12th, 16th, and 21st birthdays. I do however get traffic violations now and then. Maybe if pampers were available when I was I child, instead of cloth diapers, I wouldn't speed or fail to yield the right of way from time to time. My mom is still alive. I guess it's time for another parenting guilt trip. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEngelbrecht Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 My father gave me guns on my 12th, 16th, and 21st birthdays. Do you have a girlfriend or wife? If not, get rid of them as fast as possible, especially if you're under 25. And if she, heaven forbid, should break up with you, also get rid of them as fast as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waitforufo Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Do you have a girlfriend or wife? If not, get rid of them as fast as possible, especially if you're under 25. And if she, heaven forbid, should break up with you, also get rid of them as fast as possible. 55, married for 34 years, three college educated kids, lots of cash. You? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbrush Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 (edited) Interesting about the sexual frustration angle mentioned above. Could that have something to do with the human tendency to yell sexual words and phrases in anger? What does sex have to do with anger? Or what does anger have to do with sex? So you are saying that it's not his fault he gunned down nine people because his mama didn't change is diapers enough when he was a baby? So do you think his parents should go to the gallows with him? My father gave me guns on my 12th, 16th, and 21st birthdays. I do however get traffic violations now and then. Maybe if pampers were available when I was I child, instead of cloth diapers, I wouldn't speed or fail to yield the right of way from time to time. My mom is still alive. I guess it's time for another parenting guilt trip. No, I'm not saying that. 21 is very young for this kind of behavior. The evidence makes him look very guilty at this time, but he is only a suspect that confessed. There is usually a correlation between behavior of a child and behavior of the parents. For example, child abuse is passed from parent to child. Maybe some racist jokes by Dad at the dinner table? Maybe a "doting" mother, like Hitler's mom? We don't know yet but I doubt they were model parents. It will be interesting to know what his relationship was with his parents and the character of his parents, or whomever hatched him. This case may be unprecedented as the youngest person seriously attempting to start a race war. Charles Manson was trying to start a "race war". Good thing Dylann Roof is still alive and we can learn a lot about this kind of pathology for years to come. Edited June 19, 2015 by Airbrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waitforufo Posted June 19, 2015 Share Posted June 19, 2015 Interesting about the sexual frustration angle mentioned above. Could that have something to do with the human tendency to yell sexual words and phrases in anger? What does sex have to do with anger? Maybe frustration. No, I'm not saying that. 21 is very young for this kind of behavior. He looks very guilty at this time, but he is only a suspect that confessed. There is usually a correlation between behavior of a youngster and behavior of the parents. For example, child abuse is passed from parent to child. Maybe some racist jokes by Dad at the dinner table? Maybe spoiled by Mama? We don't know yet. I'm only saying it will be interesting to know what his relationship was with his parents. This case may be unprecedented as the youngest person seriously attempting to start a race war. Charles Manson was trying to start a "race war". Good thing he is still alive and we can learn a lot about this kind of pathology. Suspecting his parents is an interesting conclusion to jump to. He is an adult. I see no reason to blame anyone but him. From the early reports he sound like a person incapable of accepting responsibility for his own life. Racism provided him with a scapegoat. A story as old as time He let that scapegoating build to murderous hate. Losers like that also want to be famous. Now he is. News channels are causing soap sales to soar. Politicians are grinding there axes promising legislation to fix root causes. If you are looking for root causes his name is Dylann Roof. No need to look further. Give him a trail and if guilty put him away. That guilty verdict sounds like a slam dunk to me with a confession, eye witnesses, and video. I'm sure there are trial lawyers right now chomping at the bit to get his case and show that he is just another innocent victim of society. A society of bad parent, guns and liberty. What a dangerous volatile mix. I don't think that strategy will work, but I'm sure we will have to hear about it until we puke and it spends lots of tax dollars. That's the nature of our modern version of the Roman circus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbrush Posted June 19, 2015 Author Share Posted June 19, 2015 "...I'm sure there are trial lawyers right now chomping at the bit to get his case and show that he is just another innocent victim of society. A society of bad parent, guns and liberty." Dylann is not an "innocent victim", and his family is not a victim. We all know who the real victims are. Because of his young age, barely an adult, he repeated the 9th grade but never finished and dropped out of school, some people would like to know a little more about the circumstances that created such a young monster, in hopes of doing something to preventive this in the future. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waitforufo Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 "...I'm sure there are trial lawyers right now chomping at the bit to get his case and show that he is just another innocent victim of society. A society of bad parent, guns and liberty." Dylann is not an "innocent victim", and his family is not a victim. We all know who the real victims are. Because of his young age, barely an adult, he repeated the 9th grade but never finished and dropped out of school, some people would like to know a little more about the circumstances that created such a young monster, in hopes of doing something to preventive this in the future. You say Dylann is not an "innocent victim" but then you say "some people would like to know a little more about the circumstances that created such a young monster." Sounds like you want it both ways to me. Dylann is a monster because he made himself into a monster. If you want to do something to prevent this in the future, give Dylann his fair trial, do your best to sit through all the cry baby testimony "about the circumstances that create such a young monster" without puking, and when he is found guilty, lock him up and throw away the key. Will this act as a deterrent to other racist mass murderers. I don't care. It will prevent this one racist mass murderer from doing it again. That's good enough for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moontanman Posted June 20, 2015 Share Posted June 20, 2015 He is a right wing terrorist, a white supremacist, a racist and almost certainly had some sort of mental problems if not a straight up racist upbringing. I give him no slack whatsoever... 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ajb Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 ...almost certainly had some sort of mental problems... That should be been addressed by his school/college, local health practitioners, society? ... he couldn't find a girlfriend. I expect there is something in this, however it could be a 'chicken and egg' situation. However, for sure, not being able to make meaningful connections with fellow human beings is bad for ones mental health. It makes you wonder if, in hindsight there was plenty of warnings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbrush Posted June 21, 2015 Author Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) "...Roof's father gave him a .45-caliber pistol for his birthday, according to uncle Charles Cowles." Later news reports contradict this claim. It now seems that he was given the money to buy a gun by his parents, but Dylann is the one who bought the gun and ammo. Interesting that he is now 21 years old, a 9th grade dropout, which probably means he had been out of school for about 7 years, and currently unemployed. Anyone know what jobs he has held since dropping out of the 9th grade? Has he ever been employed? I had a paper route at age 13. Seems like a full time drug user. Now look at the fine judgment of his father (or whomever) to give him money to buy a Glock pistol that holds 12 rounds, even though he won't go to school or work at a job, and was already in trouble with the police for 2 incidents, 1) asking strange questions in a mall while carrying drugs with him, and 2) later trespassing into the mall after he was ordered by the police to not return to the mall. Maybe his father (or whomever) was unaware of these police encounters? They HAD to be aware of the other bad signs. "...Dylann is a monster because he made himself into a monster." With plenty of neglect from those who hatched him I suspect. We may learn this later after he is easily convicted and later interviewed and studied by psychologists for years and years, hopefully, before being executed. "do your best to sit through all the cry baby testimony about the circumstances that create such a young monster without puking..." After hours of following this story on CNN, MSNBC, Fox News, and other news stations, I have heard almost nothing about the circumstances creating such a young monster. That will take time to learn by interviewing him for hundreds of hours. Why give an unstable, uneducated, unemployed, mentally underdeveloped loner of a child a hand gun? "Here son, take this Glock handgun and have some fun! Go hunting for food or defend your house with it." Edited June 21, 2015 by Airbrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waitforufo Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) I can offer you a potential answer. Random guess about the (suspected) perpetrator ... he couldn't find a girlfriend. 'Cause that's the mutual trait for 95+ percent of all terrorists or school shooters or any maniac picking up a weapon and drawing blood; they don't have a mate. I guess what we really need is girlfriend control. This senseless tragedy could have been avoided if only Dylann had simply been provided a girlfriend by the state. It's not like there are not enough girlfriends to go around. We all know that girlfriends are as abundant as fish in the sea. Unfortunately, handsome rich guys are hording all the girlfriends. What we need is a system that more fairly distributes girlfriends, and obviously only the government could fill such a role. Only government could be trusted to include fairness and inclusiveness. Other entities might discriminate based on age, race, and gender. Think about a poor 65 year old black guy who just happens to be both transgender like Bruce Jenner and transracial like Rachel Dolezal. Not that there is anything wrong with that. What's her chance of finding a mate in our ageist, racist, sexist society? It's easy to imagine how this tragedy in Charleston could have been avoided if the state had simply hooked Dylann up with a 65 year old transracial, transgender black guy as his girlfriend. Problem instantly solved. Just imagine the sweet loving they would share. Now that we have identified the source of this problem as girlfriend hoarding by handsome rich guys, it can be solved by simple legislation and government regulation of girlfriends. If only we could break the partisan gridlock in Washington DC. Edited June 21, 2015 by waitforufo 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 If I had a chicken farm that was plagued by fox’s, I’d consider implementing at least one, of the following choices: 1. Increase fox proof fences and other anti-fox security measures. 2. don’t sell foxes to local poachers. 3. Move to a fox free Island. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CEngelbrecht Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 (edited) I guess what we really need is girlfriend control. This senseless tragedy could have been avoided if only Dylann had simply been provided a girlfriend by the state. It's not like there are not enough girlfriends to go around. We all know that girlfriends are as abundant as fish in the sea. Unfortunately, handsome rich guys are hording all the girlfriends. What we need is a system that more fairly distributes girlfriends, and obviously only the government could fill such a role. Only government could be trusted to include fairness and inclusiveness. Other entities might discriminate based on age, race, and gender. Think about a poor 65 year old black guy who just happens to be both transgender like Bruce Jenner and transracial like Rachel Dolezal. Not that there is anything wrong with that. What's her chance of finding a mate in our ageist, racist, sexist society? It's easy to imagine how this tragedy in Charleston could have been avoided if the state had simply hooked Dylann up with a 65 year old transracial, transgender black guy as his girlfriend. Problem instantly solved. Just imagine the sweet loving they would share. Now that we have identified the source of this problem as girlfriend hoarding by handsome rich guys, it can be solved by simple legislation and government regulation of girlfriends. If only we could break the partisan gridlock in Washington DC. Can't solve it. Conversely, women's mating needs are to only want to mate with the male dominating the other males (which is very few males, like, one out of 20), and especially when they're young and ovulating. (You got the rich part right, but they don't exactly have to be handsome...) They don't want to have children with any of the many losers, they only want the Alpha. And then of course the boys has to fight to be that Alpha, quite often by blood. I'm sure there's some biological reason for that, but there's no peaceful solution, it's a behavioral paradox. I also think this is why the ol' religions are so anti sex. Because they want peace in society, otherwise the harvest doesn't come in. Some Hebrew 5,000 years ago concluded that sex causes all human bloodshed and concocted a myth about Eve getting humanity kicked out of Paradise, because she was talking to a "snake" (hm! ). And the religions have tried to control our sexuality ever since. But you can't take the ape out of the human. 'Cause the rulers is that ape themselves and equally governed by their genitals, whether they want it to or not. But you can't say that to people, who has their loved ones gunned down in a temple. "He didn't get laid in time." Just like you can't tell the parents of child getting eaten by a shark that "It's just hungry, it's not evil, 'cause good and evil doesn't exist beyond the human mind." Edited June 21, 2015 by CEngelbrecht Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted June 21, 2015 Share Posted June 21, 2015 Suspecting his parents is an interesting conclusion to jump to. He is an adult. I see no reason to blame anyone but him. While he is an adult and is responsible for his actions, his hatred did not appear in a vacuum. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waitforufo Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 Can't solve it. Conversely, women's mating needs are to only want to mate with the male dominating the other males (which is very few males, like, one out of 20), and especially when they're young and ovulating. (You got the rich part right, but they don't exactly have to be handsome...) They don't want to have children with any of the many losers, they only want the Alpha. And then of course the boys has to fight to be that Alpha, quite often by blood. I'm sure there's some biological reason for that, but there's no peaceful solution, it's a behavioral paradox. I also think this is why the ol' religions are so anti sex. Because they want peace in society, otherwise the harvest doesn't come in. Some Hebrew 5,000 years ago concluded that sex causes all human bloodshed and concocted a myth about Eve getting humanity kicked out of Paradise, because she was talking to a "snake" (hm! ). And the religions have tried to control our sexuality ever since. But you can't take the ape out of the human. 'Cause the rulers is that ape themselves and equally governed by their genitals, whether they want it to or not. But you can't say that to people, who has their loved ones gunned down in a temple. "He didn't get laid in time." Just like you can't tell the parents of child getting eaten by a shark that "It's just hungry, it's not evil, 'cause good and evil doesn't exist beyond the human mind." First, handsome includes guys with big muscle. This problem is obviously bigger than I thought. Girlfriend control simply won't be enough. The government also needs to create a national emergency response girlfriend squad. They would be short term girlfriends for just in time deployment. Sure there would be a fee, but the poor will receive subsidized "free ones." Those subsidized "free ones" will however will only be provided in states that set up girlfriend exchanges. These shootings will be over before you know it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Squared Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 First, handsome includes guys with big muscle. This problem is obviously bigger than I thought. Girlfriend control simply won't be enough. The government also needs to create a national emergency response girlfriend squad. They would be short term girlfriends for just in time deployment. Sure there would be a fee, but the poor will receive subsidized "free ones." Those subsidized "free ones" will however will only be provided in states that set up girlfriend exchanges. These shootings will be over before you know it. What about those who just want to trade up? You know, to a dog or something else loyal? One thing you can say about guns that you can't say about women is that if you respect them and maintain the damned things they won't hurt you. -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Airbrush Posted June 22, 2015 Author Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) While he is an adult and is responsible for his actions, his hatred did not appear in a vacuum. Exactly, for example the confederate flag is STILL waving at full staff in Charleston. Hatred does not appear in a vacuum, thank you. Dylann is only nominally an adult, he seems to be socially retarded. "What would you like for your 21st birthday, son? Oh, you want a handgun? Sure, but here is how we are going to do this. We will give you the money to buy it so it will be in your name, that way we are not responsible for what you do with it, you loner-weirdo." Edited June 22, 2015 by Airbrush Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 ! Moderator Note This thread is on Dylann Roof - please keep to that topic and refrain from satirical fancies regarding provision of girlfriends as part of the welfare state. Please also moderate your comments about women - some of the "jokes" and asides have come very close to breaching our prohibition against "Slurs or prejudice against any group of people (or person). Back on topic from now on please. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harold Squared Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 (edited) Truly. It is an unfortunate event, a criminal matter, a waste of life and destroyer of happiness. No cause for levity. We can only hope to prevent further such cases, but how to best go about it? The weapon does not present a threat, but the will to do harm does, however that comes about. The accused sees violence as his only way to respond to a real or imagined injustice. If real, we must build a more just society, agreed? Edited June 22, 2015 by Harold Squared Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted June 22, 2015 Share Posted June 22, 2015 We can only hope to prevent further such cases, but how to best go about it? Not treating this as an isolated incident and writing it off to mental illness would be a huge start. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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