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Imagination is more important than knowledge


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#41 StringJunky

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Posted Yesterday, 11:30 AM

 

 

I think that fits with my earlier post. You can't imagine a new paradigm if you are constrained by your knowledge. 

The more 'pieces' of knowledge you have, the more permutations are possible in creating new combinations of those pieces.


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#42 swansont

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Posted Yesterday, 12:57 PM

The more 'pieces' of knowledge you have, the more permutations are possible in creating new combinations of those pieces.

 

 

But what of the new idea is not a permutation of those pieces? e.g. quantum mechanics


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#43 StringJunky

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Posted Yesterday, 01:21 PM

 

 

But what of the new idea is not a permutation of those pieces? e.g. quantum mechanics

You mean a paradigm change? If so, then the idea might be taken from a completely unrelated field and an association/inspiration made. That's the work of a genius mind.


Edited by StringJunky, Yesterday, 01:24 PM.

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#44 DrP

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Posted Yesterday, 01:28 PM

I'm pretty certain that no one could have come up with quantum mechanics without a thorough understanding of classical science.


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#45 StringJunky

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Posted Yesterday, 01:36 PM

I'm pretty certain that no one could have come up with quantum mechanics without a thorough understanding of classical science.

Absolutely, you need a thorough understanding of the core knowledge but that 'germ' of the new idea probably came from some other unrelated knowledge. For example, Einstein was around at the dawn of cinematography, when time-lapse films were avant-garde, and, apparently, that inspired him to ask himself if time actually behaved like that. Thinking about it: we can throw serendipity in the mix as well.


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#46 swansont

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Posted Yesterday, 02:30 PM

I'm pretty certain that no one could have come up with quantum mechanics without a thorough understanding of classical science.

 

 

But that's not an issue here. Nobody has said that imagination, but no knowledge, is sufficient.


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#47 Phi for All

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Posted Yesterday, 03:25 PM

The use of imagination is what we call creativity.
Creativity is very important in science.(including math)It's basically about pattern recognition (imo this is the same as finding logical relationships between data) and finding new solutions to old problems.

Finding solutions to problems leans on creativity.
When you have to solve a complicated physics problem then you first have to imagine the correct path that leads to the solution.
Or when you play tennis for example, you first imagine how you are going to hit the ball, before you hit it.

 

I don't think we have the same concepts in mind here. To me, what you're describing, problem solving through pattern recognition and reasoned relationships  (instead of logical) is what I would call using knowledge, not imagination. This is probably why I disagree with what you've been saying.

 

I don't imagine I'm going to hit the ball unless I've never done it before. Since I have, many many times, I'm going to fall back on all that practice and hit the ball the way I know will produce a desirous result. I'll use my knowledge, and my imagination can lurk in the background. I would venture to say that complex physics problems are like that as well. The more complex, the more you rely on solving the problem the way you know it's been solved before. 

 

If the problem has never been solved before, that's when you need to be creative, as well as knowing what hasn't worked before. If you throw your racket at me after I beat you in tennis and that's never happened to me before, I'll need some quick imagination to figure out my best choices. 


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#48 Itoero

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Posted Today, 02:16 PM

I don't think we have the same concepts in mind here. To me, what you're describing, problem solving through pattern recognition and reasoned relationships  (instead of logical) is what I would call using knowledge, not imagination. This is probably why I disagree with what you've been saying.
 
I don't imagine I'm going to hit the ball unless I've never done it before. Since I have, many many times, I'm going to fall back on all that practice and hit the ball the way I know will produce a desirous result. I'll use my knowledge, and my imagination can lurk in the background. I would venture to say that complex physics problems are like that as well. The more complex, the more you rely on solving the problem the way you know it's been solved before. 
 
If the problem has never been solved before, that's when you need to be creative, as well as knowing what hasn't worked before. If you throw your racket at me after I beat you in tennis and that's never happened to me before, I'll need some quick imagination to figure out my best choices.

You are correct. Pattern recognition and finding relationship I think are only possible by using imagination.
When you see some data then you imo use your imagination which is builded by the knowledge of the properties of those data to find a relationship between the data.

If you have hit a ball before then you have to imagine(or visualize) that it will work again.
You have to visualize/imagine the process in your head before you do it. This is very important in sport.
And Every problem is different, you have to imagine you can hit the ball....You will gain new knowledge durng and after the process.

You need to be creative to solve any problem but when you solve an old problem then that means that problem needed your kind of creativity to be solved. Creativity is build by knowledge. Newton and other scientists provided a lot of the knowledge that builded Einstein's creativity.
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#49 swansont

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Posted Today, 02:38 PM

You are correct. Pattern recognition and finding relationship I think are only possible by using imagination.
When you see some data then you imo use your imagination which is builded by the knowledge of the properties of those data to find a relationship between the data.

If you have hit a ball before then you have to imagine(or visualize) that it will work again.
You have to visualize/imagine the process in your head before you do it. This is very important in sport.
And Every problem is different, you have to imagine you can hit the ball....You will gain new knowledge durng and after the process.

You need to be creative to solve any problem but when you solve an old problem then that means that problem needed your kind of creativity to be solved. Creativity is build by knowledge. Newton and other scientists provided a lot of the knowledge that builded Einstein's creativity.

 

 

Phi's point was that imagination and visualization are being used differently by everyone else. You agree, and then equate the two, implying that you don't agree. 


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#50 Phi for All

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Posted Today, 03:47 PM

You are correct. Pattern recognition and finding relationship I think are only possible by using imagination.
When you see some data then you imo use your imagination which is builded by the knowledge of the properties of those data to find a relationship between the data.

If you have hit a ball before then you have to imagine(or visualize) that it will work again.
You have to visualize/imagine the process in your head before you do it. This is very important in sport.
And Every problem is different, you have to imagine you can hit the ball....You will gain new knowledge durng and after the process.

You need to be creative to solve any problem but when you solve an old problem then that means that problem needed your kind of creativity to be solved. Creativity is build by knowledge. Newton and other scientists provided a lot of the knowledge that builded Einstein's creativity.

 

When you phrase it in these ways, I can safely say you're wrong, or at least you aren't using the standard definitions. If you've done something before, your experience takes the place of imagination. Put it this way, if you want to serve the tennis ball to a certain spot on the court you've been successful with before and have done many times, you're going to serve it the same way this time, right? Right? Why would you need to be imaginative about that? 

 

You seem to be using imagine as "visualize", like you have to visualize yourself doing something before actually doing it. I don't think anyone else is using this definition, and that's why I think you're wrong about this.


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