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Wisdom behind creation.


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@s1eep -- After reading your posts I have to conclude that you are essentially a deist as the term is commonly used. The only difference is that you use the phrase 'purpose-driven consciousness' where

What is your response if not a formalized insult?   And yeah yeah, my words make no sense but yours make great sense, I understand.

Do scientists do that? I haven't seen them doing that in this thread except in those instances where that belief in things happening before the BB includes wisdom or imagination.

It was a guess, what's more important in my belief is the question.

 

Guesses shouldn't be posted in such assertive terms, it makes people think you're speaking in capitals, talking about Truth and other subjective concepts as if they're universal.

 

I could have had many other ideas.

 

Is the motion of guesswork 'religious'?

I don't think so.

 

Haven't we gone past the idea that your belief is religious? Even if it is deistic in nature, deism is not a religious outlook. Deism is pretty much opposed to religions based on words from God, miracles, or any other direct involvement from a deity.

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I’m an Atheist, but I’m in disagreement with other Atheists who believe there was not wisdom behind the genesis of the universe. How can something composed come about without science behind it? A tree, for example, comes from a seed – the seed, the tree.

 

If the big bang happened, then we all came about through that. The question I’m bringing to the table is, beyond God, why did the big bang occur? There has to be a reason for such an event, especially one that’s considered scientifically, super-massive.

 

My own answer is that there was primal imagination.

While the moments before the expansion/Big Bang are unknown and the events during are often misunderstood. All the matter (in the form of atoms) did not pure out into space. All matter in made of energy. Energy expanded out and some of it transformed into matter.

"What E = mc2 says is that matter and energy are interchangeable. There is a continuum between the two. Energy can transform into matter and matter can transform into energy. They are different aspects of the same thing."

http://www.energytribune.com/2771/understanding-e-mc2#sthash.C3SBWd5V.dpuf

 

Following the moment of expansion/Big Bang - "After the universe had cooled to about 3000 billion degrees Kelvin, a radical transition began which has been likened to the phase transition of water turning to ice. Composite particles such as protons and neutrons, called hadrons, became the common state of matter after this transition. Still, no matter more complex could form at these temperatures. Although lighter particles, called leptons, also existed, they were prohibited from reacting with the hadrons to form more complex states of matter. These leptons, which include electrons, neutrinos and photons, would soon be able to join their hadron kin in a union that would define present-day common matter. " http://www.umich.edu/~gs265/bigbang.htm

 

If we start by looking at a Tree you are right; it certainly does appear wisdom is necessary. Starting at energy and the following transitions of particles the universe seems a lot less manicured. Look at the radiation levels and temperature fluctuations on the surface of moon and the universe becomes outright chaotic and disorderly.

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Guesses shouldn't be posted in such assertive terms, it makes people think you're speaking in capitals, talking about Truth and other subjective concepts as if they're universal.

 

I don't think so.

 

Haven't we gone past the idea that your belief is religious? Even if it is deistic in nature, deism is not a religious outlook. Deism is pretty much opposed to religions based on words from God, miracles, or any other direct involvement from a deity.

Well.

 

In the context of the original post, I'll agree with you that I am a deist.

 

However, I think that the way we use God as a common term is stupidity. If I had come to this conclusion on the Theistic route, or taking note of God, then I'd agree. Rationality took me to this belief, not God.

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However, I think that the way we use God as a common term is stupidity.

Maybe, but it is used that way because there are so many gods out there. Here is a list of only the Native American gods. You can follow the link to see the rest of those identified.

 

Also keep in mind that 'god' is in the eye of the beholder. Ask any 10 Christians to describe 'god' and you will probably get 10 different answers.

 

 

Aakuluujjusi, Ab Kin zoc, Abaangui , Ababinili , Ac Yanto, Acan, Acat, Achiyalatopa , Acna, Acolmiztli, Acolnahuacatl, Acuecucyoticihuati, Adamisil Wedo, Adaox , Adekagagwaa , Adlet , Adlivun, Agloolik , Aguara , Ah Bolom Tzacab, Ah Cancum, Ah Chun Caan, Ah Chuy Kak, Ah Ciliz, Ah Cun Can, Ah Cuxtal, Ah hulneb, Ah Kin, Ah Kumix Uinicob, Ah Mun, Ah Muzencab, Ah Patnar Uinicob, Ah Peku, Ah Puch, Ah Tabai, Ah UincirDz'acab, Ah Uuc Ticab, Ah Wink-ir Masa, Ahau Chamahez, Ahau-Kin, Ahmakiq, Ahnt Alis Pok', Ahnt Kai', Aholi , Ahsonnutli , Ahuic, Ahulane, Aiauh, Aipaloovik , Ajbit, Ajilee , Ajtzak, Akbaalia , Akba-atatdia , Akhlut , Akhushtal, Akna , Akycha, Alaghom Naom Tzentel, Albino Spirit animals , Alektca , Alignak, Allanque , Allowat Sakima , Alom, Alowatsakima , Amaguq , Amala , Amimitl, Amitolane, Amotken , Andaokut , Andiciopec , Anerneq , Anetlacualtiliztli, Angalkuq , Angpetu Wi, Anguta, Angwusnasomtaka , Ani Hyuntikwalaski , Animal spirits , Aningan, Aniwye , Anog Ite , Anpao, Apanuugak , Apicilnic , Apikunni , Apotamkin , Apoyan Tachi , Apozanolotl, Apu Punchau, Aqalax , Arendiwane , Arnakua'gsak , Asdiwal , Asgaya Gigagei, Asiaq , Asin , Asintmah, Atacokai , Atahensic, Aticpac Calqui Cihuatl, Atira, Atisokan , Atius Tirawa , Atl, Atlacamani, Atlacoya, Atlatonin, Atlaua, Atshen , Auilix, Aulanerk , Aumanil , Aunggaak , Aunt Nancy , Awaeh Yegendji , Awakkule , Awitelin Tsta , Awonawilona, Ayauhteotl, Azeban, Baaxpee , Bacabs, Backlum Chaam, Bagucks , Bakbakwalanooksiwae , Balam, Baldhead , Basamacha , Basket Woman , Bead Spitter , Bear , Bear Medicine Woman , Bear Woman , Beaver , Beaver Doctor , Big Heads, Big Man Eater , Big Tail , Big Twisted Flute , Bikeh hozho, Bitol, Black Hactcin , Black Tamanous , Blind Boy , Blind Man , Blood Clot Boy , Bloody Hand , Blue-Jay , Bmola , Bolontiku, Breathmaker, Buffalo , Buluc Chabtan, Burnt Belly , Burnt Face , Butterfly , Cabaguil, Cacoch, Cajolom, Cakulha, Camaxtli, Camozotz, Cannibal Grandmother , Cannibal Woman , Canotila , Capa , Caprakan, Ca-the-a, Cauac, Centeotl, Centzonuitznaua, Cetan , Chac Uayab Xoc, Chac, Chahnameed , Chakwaina Okya, Chalchihuitlicue, Chalchiuhtlatonal, Chalchiutotolin, Chalmecacihuilt, Chalmecatl, Chamer, Changing Bear Woman , Changing Woman , Chantico, Chaob, Charred Body , Chepi , Chibiabos , Chibirias, Chiccan, Chicomecoatl, Chicomexochtli, Chiconahui, Chiconahuiehecatl, Chie, Child-Born-in-Jug , Chirakan, Chulyen , Cihuacoatl, Cin-an-ev , Cinteotl, Cipactli, Cirap� , Cit Chac Coh, Cit-Bolon-Tum, Citlalatonac, Citlalicue, Ciucoatl, Ciuteoteo, Cizin, Cliff ogre , Coatlicue, Cochimetl, Cocijo, Colel Cab, Colop U Uichkin, Copil, Coyolxauhqui, Coyopa, Coyote , Cripple Boy , Crow , Crow Woman , Cum hau, Cunawabi , Dagwanoenyent , Dahdahwat , Daldal , Deohako, Dhol , Diyin dine , Djien , Djigonasee , Dohkwibuhch , Dzalarhons , Dzalarhons, Eagentci , Eagle , Earth Shaman , Eeyeekalduk , Ehecatl, Ehlaumel , Eithinoha , Ekchuah, Enumclaw , Eototo, Esaugetuh Emissee , Esceheman, Eschetewuarha, Estanatlehi , Estasanatlehi , Estsanatlehi, Evaki, Evening Star, Ewah , Ewauna, Face , Faces of the Forests , False Faces , Famine , Fastachee , Fire Dogs , First Creator , First Man and First Woman, First Scolder , Flint Man , Flood , Flower Woman , Foot Stuck Child , Ga'an, Ga-gaah , Gahe, Galokwudzuwis , Gaoh, Gawaunduk, Geezhigo-Quae, Gendenwitha, Genetaska, Ghanan, Gitche Manitou, Glispa, Glooskap , Gluscabi , Gluskab , Gluskap, Godasiyo, Gohone , Great Seahouse, Greenmantle , Gucumatz, Gukumatz, Gunnodoyak, Gyhldeptis, Ha Wen Neyu , Hacauitz , Hacha'kyum, Hagondes , Hahgwehdiyu , Hamatsa , Hamedicu, Hanghepi Wi, Hantceiitehi , Haokah , Hastseoltoi, Hastshehogan , He'mask.as , Hen, Heyoka , Hiawatha , Hino, Hisakitaimisi, Hokhokw , Hotoru, Huehuecoyotl, Huehueteotl, Huitaca , Huitzilopochtli, Huixtocihuatl, Hummingbird, Hun hunahpu, Hun Pic Tok, Hunab Ku, Hunahpu Utiu, Hunahpu, Hunahpu-Gutch, Hunhau, Hurakan, Iatiku And Nautsiti, Ich-kanava , Ictinike , Idliragijenget , Idlirvirisong, Igaluk , Ignirtoq , Ikanam , Iktomi , Ilamatecuhtli, Illapa, Ilyap'a, i'noGo tied , Inti, Inua , Ioskeha , Ipalnemohuani, Isakakate, Ishigaq , Isitoq , Issitoq , Ite , Itzamn, Itzananohk`u, Itzlacoliuhque, Itzli, Itzpapalotl, Ix Chebel Yax, Ixbalanque, Ixchel, Ixchup, Ixmucane, Ixpiyacoc, Ixtab, Ixtlilton, Ixtubtin, Ixzaluoh, Iya , Iyatiku , Iztaccihuatl, Iztacmixcohuatl, Jaguar Night, Jaguar Quitze, Jogah , Kaakwha , Kabun , Kabun , Kachinas, Kadlu , Ka-Ha-Si , Ka-Ha-Si , Kaik , Kaiti , Kan, Kana'ti and Selu , Kanati, Kan-u-Uayeyab, Kan-xib-yui, Kapoonis , Katsinas, Keelut , Ketchimanetowa, Ketq Skwaye, Kianto, Kigatilik , Kilya, K'in, Kinich Ahau, Kinich Kakmo, Kishelemukong , Kisin, Kitcki Manitou, Kmukamch , Kokopelli , Ko'lok , Kukulcan, Kushapatshikan , Kutni , Kutya'I , Kwakwakalanooksiwae , Kwatee , Kwekwaxa'we , Kwikumat , Kyoi , Lagua , Land Otter People , Lawalawa , Logobola , Loha, Lone Man , Long Nose , Loon , Loon Medicine , Loon Woman , Loo-wit, Macaw Woman, Macuilxochitl, Maho Peneta, Mahucutah, Makenaima , Malesk , Malina , Malinalxochi, Malsum, Malsumis , Mam, Mama Cocha, Man in moon , Manabozho , Manetuwak , Mani'to, Manitou , Mannegishi , Manu, Masaya, Masewi , Master of Life , Master Of Winds, Matshishkapeu , Mavutsinim , Mayahuel, Medeoulin , Mekala , Menahka, Meteinuwak , Metztli, Mexitl, Michabo, Mictecacihuatl, Mictlan, Mictlantecuhtli, Mikchich , Mikumwesu , Mitnal, Mixcoatl, Mongwi Kachinum , Morning Star, Motho and Mungo , Mulac, Muut , Muyingwa , Nacon, Nagenatzani, Nagi Tanka , Nagual, Nahual, Nakaw, Nanabojo, Nanabozho , Nanabush, Nanahuatzin, Nanautzin, Nanih Waiya, Nankil'slas , Nanook , Naum, Negafook , Nerrivik , Nesaru, Nianque , Nishanu , Nohochacyum, Nokomis, Nootaikok , North Star, Nujalik , Nukatem , Nunne Chaha , Ocasta, Ockabewis, Odzihozo , Ohtas , Oklatabashih, Old Man , Olelbis, Omacatl, Omecihuatl, Ometecuhtli, Onatha , One Tail of Clear Hair , Oonawieh Unggi , Opochtli, Oshadagea, Owl Woman , Pah , Pah, Paiowa, Pakrokitat , Pana , Patecatl, Pautiwa, Paynal, Pemtemweha , Piasa , Pikvhahirak , Pinga , Pomola , Pot-tilter , Prairie Falcon , Ptehehincalasanwin , Pukkeenegak , Qaholom, Qakma, Qiqirn , Quaoar , Quetzalcoatl, Qumu , Quootis-hooi, Rabbit, Ragno, Raven, Raw Gums , Rukko, Sagamores , Sagapgia , Sanopi , Saynday , Sedna, Selu, Shakuru, Sharkura, Shilup Chito Osh, Shrimp house, Sila , Sint Holo , Sio humis, Sisiutl , Skan , Snallygaster , Sosondowah , South Star, Spider Woman , Sta-au , Stonecoats , Sun, Sungrey , Ta Tanka , Tabaldak , Taime , Taiowa , Talocan, Tans , Taqwus , Tarhuhyiawahku, Tarquiup Inua , Tate , Tawa, Tawiscara, Ta'xet , Tcisaki , Tecciztecatl, Tekkeitserktock, Tekkeitsertok , Telmekic , Teoyaomqui, Tepeu, Tepeyollotl, Teteoinnan, Tezcatlipoca, Thobadestchin, Thoume', Thunder , Thunder Bird , Tieholtsodi, Tihtipihin , Tirawa , Tirawa Atius, Tlacolotl, Tlahuixcalpantecuhtli, Tlaloc, Tlaltecuhtli, Tlauixcalpantecuhtli, Tlazolteotl, Tohil, Tokpela , Tonantzin , Tonatiuh, To'nenile, Tonenili , Tootega , Torngasak, Torngasoak , Trickster/Transformer , True jaguar, Tsentsa, Tsichtinako, Tsohanoai Tsonoqwa , Tsul 'Kalu , Tulugaak , Tumas , Tunkan ingan, Turquoise Boy , Twin Thunder Boys, Txamsem , Tzakol, Tzitzimime, Uazzale , Uchtsiti, Ud , Uentshukumishiteu , Ueuecoyotl, Ugly Way , Ugni , Uhepono , Uitzilopochtli, Ukat , Underwater Panthers , Unhcegila , Unipkaat , Unk, Unktomi , Untunktahe , Urcaguary, Utea , Uwashil , Vassagijik , Voltan, Wabosso , Wabun , Wachabe, Wah-Kah-Nee, Wakan , Wakanda , Wakan-Tanka, Wakinyan , Wan niomi , Wanagi , Wananikwe , Watavinewa , Water babies , Waukheon , We-gyet , Wemicus , Wendigo , Wentshukumishiteu , White Buffalo Woman, Whope , Wi , Wicahmunga , Wihmunga , Windigo, Winonah, Wisagatcak , Wisagatcak, Wishpoosh , Wiyot , Wovoka , Wuya , Xaman Ek, Xelas , Xibalba, Xilonen, Xipe Totec, Xiuhcoatl, Xiuhtecuhtli, Xiuhtecutli, Xmucane, Xochipili , Xochiquetzal, Xocotl, Xolotl, Xpiyacoc, Xpuch And Xtah, Yacatecuhtli, Yaluk, Yanauluha , Ya-o-gah , Yeba Ka, Yebaad, Yehl , Yeitso, Yiacatecuhtli, Yolkai Estsan, Yoskeha , Yum Kaax, Yuwipi , Zaramama, Zipaltonal, Zotz,

http://www.rationalresponders.com/a_big_list_of_gods_but_nowhere_near_all_of_them

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Wisdom and imagination are emergent properties of complex neural networks developed through natural selection to aid in the survival and reproduction of the complex chemical organism that houses them.

 

We value them because they are some of the primary attributes we use for survival. (Similarly, Genesis begins with "Let there be light" because we are a very visual species. A bat Bible might just as well begin with "Let there be sound!")

 

And this is really the crux of the issue. Imagination isn't a magical force, it is an attribute of our particular kind of life, no more necessary to the existence of the universe than any other trait. A horse might well suppose that there existed some 'primal running' that gave the Big Bang its momentum. A bird might suppose that the complexity of the universe is the result of some 'primal song.'

 

Ultimately, the belief that there must be imagination behind the creation of the universe boils down to the idea that the universe must have been created by 'something like me' or at least be based on 'something I value' which is the same egocentric thinking that allows for the creation of creator gods in the image of humanity.

 

The universe is under no obligation to think we're special just because we think we are.

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Wisdom and imagination are emergent properties of complex neural networks developed through natural selection to aid in the survival and reproduction of the complex chemical organism that houses them.

 

We value them because they are some of the primary attributes we use for survival. (Similarly, Genesis begins with "Let there be light" because we are a very visual species. A bat Bible might just as well begin with "Let there be sound!")

 

And this is really the crux of the issue. Imagination isn't a magical force, it is an attribute of our particular kind of life, no more necessary to the existence of the universe than any other trait. A horse might well suppose that there existed some 'primal running' that gave the Big Bang its momentum. A bird might suppose that the complexity of the universe is the result of some 'primal song.'

 

Ultimately, the belief that there must be imagination behind the creation of the universe boils down to the idea that the universe must have been created by 'something like me' or at least be based on 'something I value' which is the same egocentric thinking that allows for the creation of creator gods in the image of humanity.

 

The universe is under no obligation to think we're special just because we think we are.

The semantics of primal imagination are not what you think they are...

 

And I suspect you don't know as much about imagination as you appear to know with your words.

 

When I say primal imagination I mean 'creative energies', a personified infinity, opposite to nothing; chaotic, random, not associated with a consciousness; like the big bang, not associated with a cause.

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The semantics of primal imagination are not what you think they are...

 

And I suspect you don't know as much about imagination as you appear to know with your words.

 

When I say primal imagination I mean 'creative energies', a personified infinity, opposite to nothing; chaotic, random, not associated with a consciousness; like the big bang, not associated with a cause.

 

 

So you are trying to answer a mystery by proposing yet another mystery?

 

When I say primal imagination I mean 'creative energies', a personified infinity, opposite to nothing; chaotic, random, not associated with a consciousness; like the big bang, not associated with a cause.

 

 

Meaningless word salad, horse feathers, bull butter... Just because two words have a meaning separately doesn't mean they have meaning when you put them together. Put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig... you are trying to pick up the clean end of a turd not to mention straw manning the concept of the big bang...

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So you are trying to answer a mystery by proposing yet another mystery?

 

 

Meaningless word salad, horse feathers, bull butter... Just because two words have a meaning separately doesn't mean they have meaning when you put them together. Put lipstick on a pig and it's still a pig... you are trying to pick up the clean end of a turd not to mention straw manning the concept of the big bang...

Then you're saying the big bang is associated with a cause? Otherwise my point still stands.

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And I suspect you don't know as much about imagination as you appear to know with your words.

I suspect there is quite a bit we don't know about how imagination works. I also suspect that there is quite a bit of what we do already know that I don't.

 

But I'm not the one claiming that the ultimate cause of the universe is an unsubstantiated force of imagination the existence of which would fly in the face of everything we do know.

 

And I do know enough about how evolution actually works to know that the idea that idea that it needs consciousness driving it entirely misses the point of what evolution is and how it operates. It's like saying a stone rolling down a hill must have some purpose guiding it.

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I suspect there is quite a bit we don't know about how imagination works. I also suspect that there is quite a bit of what we do already know that I don't.

 

But I'm not the one claiming that the ultimate cause of the universe is an unsubstantiated force of imagination the existence of which would fly in the face of everything we do know.

 

And I do know enough about how evolution actually works to know that the idea that idea that it needs consciousness driving it entirely misses the point of what evolution is and how it operates. It's like saying a stone rolling down a hill must have some purpose guiding it.

All stones in this universe would have a particular style, you did say 'a stone'; if we think about this in-depth, it's unique. A stone formed, during this formation process, it comes into existence, because of it's particular style being accepted in nature. A stone-holds holds purpose in nature, to nature, and to itself, because it upholds it's own character.

 

Another point, a stone rolling down the hill must have come from another force, there is reason behind it. Fortunately humans are a very advanced species that can control body parts, senses and so on.

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However you cut it you are invoking a creator which is no different from a god ...you are just not attributing that entity to a prescribed religion. You have your personal 'religion'.

 

There's ambiguity in asking whether any entity is sufficiently god-like to be a god, so IMO it's more practical to view (a)theism as a spectrum.

 

Alas, I would call s1eep a deist.

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All stones in this universe would have a particular style, you did say 'a stone'; if we think about this in-depth, it's unique. A stone formed, during this formation process, it comes into existence, because of it's particular style being accepted in nature. A stone-holds holds purpose in nature, to nature, and to itself, because it upholds it's own character.

Style?! Please define and clarify. Style has aspects of choice that rocks don't possess.

 

Another point, a stone rolling down the hill must have come from another force, there is reason behind it. Fortunately humans are a very advanced species that can control body parts, senses and so on.

 

 

Please define how you're using the word "reason". An earthquake would provide the force and thus the reason a stone might roll downhill, but an earthquake is NOT a reasoning entity. Similarly, a mountain goat might accidentally dislodge the stone. A reason without reason.

 

Do you see why "there is reason behind it" and "there is a reason behind it" are two very different sentences, using the same word differently?

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Style?! Please define and clarify. Style has aspects of choice that rocks don't possess.

 

 

Please define how you're using the word "reason". An earthquake would provide the force and thus the reason a stone might roll downhill, but an earthquake is NOT a reasoning entity. Similarly, a mountain goat might accidentally dislodge the stone. A reason without reason.

 

Do you see why "there is reason behind it" and "there is a reason behind it" are two very different sentences, using the same word differently?

They are more simple forms of life, their reasons aren't as advanced as humans where we have reasoning ability, but reason is not beyond them. Reasoning had evolved because reason was possible, it doesn't mean these things are reason-less. You confuse a humans reason and a rocks reason, you suppose that humans and rocks have the same geniuses, but the reason applied to a rock may not be the same as a reason applied to a human, but that doesn't mean one is reasonless.

 

If someone was in the way of the rock, what reason would it have then? We take one frame out of life as an example, but this happening is always accompanied by a universe; a past and future, causes and effects, so the stone rolling may have particular reason depending on the circumstances it is in. As things have evolved, species have adapted reasoning skills, no doubt through the presence of reasons in real life, and their effect on the mind over a long time period.

 

As for 'style', characteristics; properties, one's that are accepted by nature and again, upheld by the stone or the forces which made the stone.

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They are more simple forms of life, their reasons aren't as advanced as humans where we have reasoning ability, but reason is not beyond them.

 

"Reason" definition #1: An statement that explains why something is the way it is.

 

"Reason" definition #2: The power of the mind to think and understand in a logical way.

 

 

I think you're conflating the definitions, but they're very different. Reasoning (#2) is beyond a rock's capabilities. They have no minds. There are many reasons (#1) why this is, the foremost being that they are inanimate.

 

Reasons (#1) aren't always reasonable (#2). You don't have to use reason (#2) to come up with a reason (#1), but it helps.

 

As things have evolved, species have adapted reasoning skills, no doubt through the presence of reasons in real life, and their effect on the mind over a long time period.

 

Species evolve. Rocks do not. "Things" should not include rock and stone in your examples.

 

As for 'style', characteristics; properties, one's that are accepted by nature and again, upheld by the stone or the forces which made the stone.

 

Upheld?! Please define and clarify how a stone can "uphold" anything without being consciously placed to support it?

 

By "forces", are you talking about geophysical forces involved in the formation of minerals, or are you talking about wise forces behind creation?

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Upheld?! Please define and clarify how a stone can "uphold" anything without being consciously placed to support it?

 

By "forces", are you talking about geophysical forces involved in the formation of minerals, or are you talking about wise forces behind creation?

The stone exists, to exist it meets a certain criteria, it has both reason in nature (it's accepted, it can exist; thus it is not empty/meaningless/nothing, it is something; from the perspective of nature, it is part of existence), and to the geophysical forces that created it (it's parents, creators), for it was created by them.

 

And with the two definitions of reason, I'm still sticking to my point about the different geniuses for a rock and human. The definition of every word from a rocks perspective would be different to that from a humans perspective, rocks and humans have their own personified reasons )#1) for most life prior to humans and (#2) for animals and humans.

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The definition of every word from a rocks perspective would be different to that from a humans perspective, rocks and humans have their own personified reasons )#1) for most life prior to humans and (#2) for animals and humans.

I doubt a rock can grasp words. We could use an EEG to associate a brain region with that word's sound or text, and the stone wouldn't have that brain region.

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I doubt a rock can grasp words. We could use an EEG to associate a brain region with that word's sound or text, and the stone wouldn't have that brain region.

I'm talking about the effect of words, not spoken or written word.

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I’m an Atheist, but I’m in disagreement with other Atheists who believe there was not wisdom behind the genesis of the universe. How can something composed come about without science behind it? A tree, for example, comes from a seed – the seed, the tree.

If the big bang happened, then we all came about through that. The question I’m bringing to the table is, beyond God, why did the big bang occur? There has to be a reason for such an event, especially one that’s considered scientifically, super-massive.

My own answer is that there was primal imagination.

 

 

You're undermining the universe. Saying the answer is some imaginative entity is both unimaginative and extremely limiting, and the bias towards that concept in yourself and for example, those who conjure up religions, obviously comes internally. As imaginative/concious organisms ourselves, we try to project that onto the universe. You're not even tapping into the surface of the possibilities, and we can't... because we know nothing yet.

 

A primal imagination would be a boring answer if you ask me. Not only that, it would only require further explanation.

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I guess what led me to the idea of primal imagination, was that I think everything are representatives of past things in some way because of their explicit relation; so when a sperm enters an egg to fertilize it, is this related to the beginning of the universe, in any way, even metaphysically?

Edited by s1eep
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