Racism in America

[Dapthar]

Firstly, I put this thread here since I could find no other appropriate subforum. If there happens to be one that I missed, the moderators should feel free to move this thread.

 

Secondly, I think one should answer the poll before reading the article below, since it will most likely bias people towards a specific answer. (Note: This thread was split off from this thread http://www.scienceforums.net/forums/showthread.php?t=658 in the Education subforum.)

 

Now, onto the article.

 

The article of interest is "Can a [African-Amreican]-Sounding Name Hurt Your Career Prospects?", and is located at http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/...s_040820-1.html, and the study it is based on is located at http://gsb.uchicago.edu/pdf/bertrand.pdf and is 320 KB, so it should be palatable for even the dial-up folks. I suggest those interested in this thread read the (rather short) article, and the study is just for those who have a ton of spare time.

 

A related article is "Can 'Hello' Cost You a Home If You're [African-American]?" located here: http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/wnt/WorldNewsTonight/linguistic_profiling011206.html.

 

 

What I found most interesting about the first study is that, with the explosion of online job posting sites like http://www.monster.com , it has become much easier to conduct these types of experiments, since the only information employers have to base their decisions upon is a resume, and thus, any bias becomes immediately evident.

 

A few choice quotes from the first article:

Each person posted two résumés on popular job-search Web sites — one under his or her real name, and the same identical résumé under a made-up, "[European-American]-sounding" names like Peter, Melissa and Kathleen.

 

You'd think the identical résumés would get the same attention. Instead, the résumés with the [European-American]-sounding names on them were actually downloaded 17 percent more often by job recruiters looking for candidates.

But capable doesn't always matter. A job recruiter for Fortune 500 companies in northern California revealed an ugly secret.

 

"There is rampant racism everywhere. And people who deny that are being naïve," said the recruiter, who spoke on the condition her name would not be used.

 

The recruiter said if she were given two résumés, all else being equal, except one says Shaniqua, and the other says Jennifer, she would call Jennifer first.

 

It's a choice she says she was trained to make: When representing certain companies, do not send [African-American] candidates. And on a résumé, a name may be the only cue of the applicant's race.

Of course, by no means are African-Americans the only victims of racism in the US, however, more studies have been focused upon this particular aspect of today's society.

 

Finally, I would be interested in people's thoughts on the above articles.

[MolecularMan14]

three ignorant letters

"KKK"

[5614]

i'm not voting yet, i think that racism in america used to be very bad, its not as bad now.

 

now, equally as bad, i think, is anti-ethnic minorities, whilsts this includes blacks, it also includes gypsies, muslims, jews and many other ethnic-miorities.

 

so yes, racism is still active, but it is dying out or at least it was dying out, now-a-days people seem anti anything who isnt white and christian [at least in the UK/USA].

 

its quite sad, why cant people live in peace?

[ydoaPs]

I put other, because of two reasons. the people that people are most racist against is the white male(which, of coarse, is the opposite of the appearance.). the other is that most of the appearant racism is only people trying to get a break.

 

ex.) "30 years ago african americans couldn't get into college, so now, screw the white man and give everyone else extra entry points."

[drz]

I also voted other. However, it is quite still alive and well.

 

A lil history real quick. I moved to randolph county, NC from florida when I was 6. I attended school here from the 2nd grade until 9th. When I was in Florida, I had several black friends, it never occured to me they were different cause they didn't look at me. I had never known racism personally. Anyhow, all throughout my elementary and middle school years I noticed alot of people were quite racist, there were very few black people at the school. The ones who were constantly got teased, picked on and had to fight several people. several times.

 

I moved to Kings Mountain my at the end of 8th grade. It was a city school, and I went from being the majority to being the minority. It was great, the people were friendly, and while I got in a few fights I never had any trouble, and seen very little racism.

 

Anyhow, I moved back to randoplh my 11th grade year. The kids I remembered wanting to join the KKK had now completly transformed into gansta wannabes. Everyone traded their ford trucks for cars with trunks for loud speakers, traded Garth Brooks for Tupac.

 

Most people I know today, while they mostly hang out with their own race, are not nearly as racist as people in my father generation. When is the last time you heard of a lynching, or dragging a person down the street by a truck? Sure, we've still got issues, but things are getting better.

 

I also agree that their is alot of racism towards whites these days. However, what little racism is left between the races in america is not as violently motivated as in the past. It might keep you from getting a job, but chances are noone will kill you because of skin color anymore. (I'm sure in extreme cases this may still happen)

 

But now we have a new race to hate, Islamics. Black, white, mexican, anyone else in america seems to mutually hate islam so much, they've forgotten about hating each other.

[ydoaPs]

if everoneone would stop saying "everyone is racist against me" and stopped things like negro college fund, then racism would probably be even further deminished. it is the advertisement of the differences that make them appearent. if no one put the small differences in view and forgot about the past, racism would be COMPLETELY gone.

 

edit: post # 1,234 for me.

[ydoaPs]

mexicans: if you live in mexico and want to move to america, all the power to you, UNLESS YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH. if you move to a country and don't speak the national language, you deserve to be shot.(unless u r a baby, duh) it also pisses me off when immigrants teach their kids th language nation of their homeland instead of english.

[drz]

I tend to agree with that. I don't think it is a racial issue, but even when traveling to another country it seems atleast decent to try to learn some basics about the common language.

 

I think in order to become a citizen of america, one should know english, or atleast partially know it. But I don't think citizens are the ones to worry about.

[Rakdos]

it is my firm belief that when you are in another country you should at leat be able to form an INTELEGENT conversation

[ydoaPs]

intelligent may be overstating it. there are people in my school that can't have intelligent conversations. they should be at least conversational if they plan on moving here.

[YT2095]

I voted "Other", I don`t see why it`s to be limited to the US only. racism is Everywhere, certainly not limited to any ONE country (or race).

[Thales]

I don't live in America but the fact Mr Bush is in power made me lean towards yes.

[ydoaPs]

what does bush being in power have to do with racism?

[Dave]

I voted "Other", I don`t see why it`s to be limited to the US only. racism is Everywhere, certainly not limited to any ONE country (or race).

 

Quite. It's very apparent in the police, according to what the news tells us.

[AL]

mexicans: if you live in mexico and want to move to america, all the power to you, UNLESS YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH. if you move to a country and don't speak the national language, you deserve to be shot.(unless u r a baby, duh) it also pisses me off when immigrants teach their kids the nation of their homeland instead of english.

What's wrong with them not being able to speak English? Does it affect your life in anyway? My old landlady was Russian and she didn't speak a word of English. But she's rich, runs a successful Real Estate business and has created a lot of jobs and housing as a result. She's done a lot of good for this country, but yeah, she should be shot since she doesn't speak English.

[ike]

Racism exists in the U.S., but not on the widescale basis I remember

growing up in the 60's and 70's. The perception of racism is still

perpetrated by special interest groups and is often used as a wedge

issue in politics.

[Alexa]

mexicans: if you live in mexico and want to move to america' date=' all the power to you, UNLESS YOU DON'T SPEAK ENGLISH. if you move to a country and don't speak the national language, you deserve to be shot.

(unless u r a baby, duh) [/quote']

This is a racist remark.

 

it also pisses me off when immigrants teach their kids the nation of their homeland instead of english.

Are you a native indian ?

[Dave]

I'm probably going to get the ass flamed off of me for this, but I personally think that people who come seeking asylum to this country should be given (at least the opportunity) to get some English lessons, or some kind of basic course.

 

Don't get me wrong, people can speak whatever language they like, and a lot of people come into our country and contribute greatly. I'm also not saying they should be forced into these courses.

 

Personally I find it annoying when I'm speaking to someone on a tech support line, or in the street or whatever, and can hardly understand what they're saying. This is not being racist - I don't hate these people, they're perfectly okay in my eyes - this is being practical - if we all speak a common language, it makes life a lot easier.

 

I'd also like to point out that I feel "racist" is a term used far too often in modern society - it's almost adopted the role of being a slang word.

[Phi for All]

Personally I find it annoying when I'm speaking to someone on a tech support line, or in the street or whatever, and can hardly understand what they're saying.

The only flame I'll give you on this, Dave, is that most of your tech support lines originate in foreign countries, so if the guy on the other end of the phone speaks English with an Indian accent, it's probably because he's working the night shift in Calcutta.

 

If you're talking to people in the streets who don't speak your language very well, then I applaud you. Most folks don't want to be bothered with strangers these days, especially foreigners. If you are striking up conversations, there are many universal ways to make yourself understood without precise language. It can be fun to get your point across to a fellow human even if you can't understand their words. Remember Steve Martin's immortal line: Some people have a way with words, others... not have way.

 

I also doubt most who move to a foreign country are seeking asylum. You should be glad they feel safer or more prosperous in your country. Shows you that the grass is greener on your side for once.

 

*Edit* I was going to vote "Other" and then explain why until I saw the posts by yourdadonapogos. Obviously, the answer is "YES!!!!!"

[ydoaPs]

This is a racist remark.

 

 

Are you a native indian ?

 

1.) no, it isn't

 

2.) no, i am native american

[john5746]

I voted yes, because racism exists in the US and everywhere and probably always will. In fact, this is a bigger problem than terrorism and has resulted in many more deaths. I think we should have a war against racism. We just need to pick a country, invade it and kick some butt. This will make everyone feel safer, because we don't want the racists here in the US, we want them somewhere else, so we can fight them there.

 

Seriously, racism is used far too lightly these days. Children should be reasonably armed to be successful in the country they live in. In the US, this includes speaking in English, but we are seeing Spanish make its influence. So, I can see where children learning both would be a very good option. Chinese may also be a good one. French? let it go the way of Latin.

[Dave]

The only flame I'll give you on this, Dave, is that most of your tech support lines originate in foreign countries, so if the guy on the other end of the phone speaks English with an Indian accent, it's probably because he's working the night shift in Calcutta.

 

Fair point. You'd think that they'd get better training though

[Phi for All]

Communication is certainly important as the world gets smaller and the borders are easier to cross. I think the most important lesson to be learned is tolerance. We have got to stop viewing everybody else as doing things the wrong way. It's just their way and if it's an obstacle to you, then go around it. Don't just stand there calling them names.

 

If it makes you feel superior to say someone should learn your language when you don't bother to learn theirs, you've got a problem. We english-only speakers need to remember that multi-linguals have done more work than we have, even if their english isn't perfect. And if someone moves here and hasn't learned the language, they must be doing something right if they are prospering. I never see any non-English speaking bums in my part of the country.

 

Let's cut everybody some slack here and be more tolerant.

[Dave]

I think that what winds people up the wrong way is that there's always quite a lot of asylum seekers who basically come into this country and live off the dole for the rest of their lives, whilst the rest of us go out and pay for their new mobile phone/sofa/house/toaster/etc. There's a lot of bad feeling in our country at the moment about this, and (I believe) rightly so. I think to some people it seems like they're going to stay in a hotel with free room service.

 

What I meant to say (and you probably misinterpreted this), is that if these call centres are going to be shipped overseas - and mainly that's to cut costs, whilst taking away a lot of our jobs - then they need to be able to communicate with customers that are primarily going to be speaking English. It's not about toleration, it's just common sense really.

 

Looks like I'm getting that flame retardant jumper afterall

[Phi for All]

I think that what winds people up the wrong way is that there's always quite a lot of asylum seekers who basically come into this country and live off the dole for the rest of their lives, whilst the rest of us go out and pay for their new mobile phone/sofa/house/toaster/etc. There's a lot of bad feeling in our country at the moment about this, and (I believe) rightly so. I think to some people it seems like they're going to stay in a hotel with free room service.

This is the subject of a whole thread. While I think that media and heresay exaggerates this problem in many countries with some form of welfare, when the system is set up improperly in the first place it will be abused.

 

I propose a system of Minimum Subsistance. Take care of people's basic needs like food, shelter, medical care and even clothing. Make it stark and basic, something to fall back on in hard times, but not something you'd want to stay on. Severely restrict choices. One step below prison (since you get to watch cable and lift weights and have someone else cook for you in prison). Regulated groceries, no frills, no snacks. We won't throw you out in the cold, but we're not going to make this a preferable alternative. Part of MinSub would also be working mandatory street cleanup, washing off grafitti, taking care of the Broken Window approach. Forget all this crap about maintaining their dignity; if you can't find work, you won't be homeless, sick or hungry, the rest is up to you.

 

I could go on and on. Like I said, welfare reform is a whole other thread.

 

What I meant to say (and you probably misinterpreted this), is that if these call centres are going to be shipped overseas - and mainly that's to cut costs, whilst taking away a lot of our jobs - then they need to be able to communicate with customers that are primarily going to be speaking English. It's not about toleration, it's just common sense really.

Like everyone doing new things, there is a learning curve, and Indian call centers have the additional barrier of accented languages. Remember also that it is not simply the arbitrage of money that attracts businesses to economical offshore workforces, it's technology as well. Having someone thousands of miles away handle your tech questions is only made possible by expanding communication nets.

 

Air travel made other people and places accessible within the last hundred years and telecommunications is going to unite the world even quicker. The Indian middle class is now as big as the entire United States, and they have a huge purchasing power. They hunger for goods (and services) provided by the US and the UK. Take away their right to earn money at call center jobs and you take away much of the need for your countries goods and services. If we take our foot off the necks of emerging nations, pretty soon the differences in economy will be irrelevant and things will change again.

 

Not much of a flame, more of a singe, really.