Reputation!

[iNow]

To be mathematically accurate, when someone in the minuses gives neg rep, it should instead add positive rep

 

I guess great minds think alike.

[iNow]

I`ve been wondering if there is any way of finding out who has gotten the most negative rep points ever. I suspect I am at least a contender in that regard as to the current record holder and I`ve only been here a couple of weeks or so. My current count is a minus 57 . I think it was a minus 58 yesterday so i`m losing ground in that regard.

If it makes you feel any better, Dr.Syntax... I'm probably right up there with you. I've received 5 neg reps in the past 4 days, and several more than just that since the site added the neg rep system. It's amazing what happens when you open a thread debunking Austrian economics and another talking about how the universe could, in fact, have come from nothing and that god is not required.

[forufes]

the mods can look it up if there is a claim of abuse.

 

they'll only bother if it is clear that the post in question is in no way deserving of negative rep.

 

ie. if you claim abuse of negative rep when the post in question is a 1000 word long post entirely composed of expletives then they won't investigate.

 

if the post is a logical, well thought out arguement against or for a point then they will investigate.

 

But we can, so we can check it out for you.

http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showpost.php?p=522936&postcount=4

that's what i did and i got no reply, was there any progress made without me knowing?

I wish we could throttle our rep power. Us godlike beings can only hand out ambrosia or thunderbolts, when most of the time I only intend pats on the head or wags of the finger.

i can see you need your back scratched..........

No, it's not. Negative reputation is a tool that(apart from giving new users a sense of somewhat who are trolls, etc) gives incentive for proper behaviour.

proper behavior?

i think it's more of:

 

The neg-rep is a good way of telling posters that certain attitudes or behaviors aren't appreciated by the community (or by a person, in which case it counts less) without making personal attacks or irrelevant debates spill into the actual thread.

 

 

~moo

[CaptainPanic]

The thing with the negative rep is that it will not scare away any professional trolls and spammers... They usually know from the start that their stay here on the forum lasts only as long as the mods don't find out about them. It will however discourage newbies if they start off with negative rep.

 

I remember my first few posts. The scientific ones we alright, but on the "other topics" boards I got quite some negative responses to my posts. Had that resulted in a bunch of negative reps, I am not sure I would have stayed around... There are also other science forums online. Being new on a forum is a weird thing. Regardless of your age, it does feel a bit like being the new kid at school. Little things can mean a lot. A little friendliness is like a big welcome, and a little negative rep can mean you feel like an outcast.

 

Generally speaking, the older members have plenty of positive rep to deal with a few negative clicks...

But if your icon jumps to red just because of a single person disliking one of your first posts, then that can mean a lot for the newbie...

[insane_alien]

forufes, perhaps because you posted it in yellow which doesn't show up very well(i had to read the post several times in order to find it.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I just checked to see who it is (now that I actually noticed the yellow text) and I'm not very surprised.

 

I'm rather disappointed in how negative rep is turning out. In the negative rep comments I've read there is nothing useful that couldn't have just been put in the thread, and most negative reps are just "you're wrong. roar," basically.

 

So I just disabled the negative reputation system. Sorry, but it was causing more harm than good.

[ydoaPs]

I just checked to see who it is (now that I actually noticed the yellow text) and I'm not very surprised.

 

I'm rather disappointed in how negative rep is turning out. In the negative rep comments I've read there is nothing useful that couldn't have just been put in the thread, and most negative reps are just "you're wrong. roar," basically.

 

So I just disabled the negative reputation system. Sorry, but it was causing more harm than good.

 

Is there a way to undo the neg rep that was given so people aren't left with red cards?

[CaptainPanic]

Is there a way to undo the neg rep that was given so people aren't left with red cards?

 

Just give random positive rep to any red dot you see.

[jackson33]

Cap'n Refsmmat; There have been many posters telling you this, since Neg Rep went into operation. In fact my only positive point's that counted where on a post, telling you the problem and how it was being used. Unfortunately most posters that have gone red or dropped, with any self esteem are long gone. It's like being in a group, where your acceptance is is being determined by the group bully(s).

 

Having said that; It's not practical to go back through the system, crediting posters, for all the negatives, but it should not be much trouble to at least place the few, with red cards or -0- Rep Power, back to entry level status. I do applaud you for you action and the interest in checking out where those neg points were coming from, better late than never.

 

Captain Panic; It's my understanding it takes a certain level of Rep Power (10) to have either your Pos/Neg, actually move/change the posters rating. Since it's these people (not very many) that got the poster into negative territory, they are not likely going to start now, to get them out of the red, those that would do not count....

[iNow]

I'm rather disappointed in how negative rep is turning out. In the negative rep comments I've read there is nothing useful that couldn't have just been put in the thread, and most negative reps are just "you're wrong. roar," basically.

 

So I just disabled the negative reputation system. Sorry, but it was causing more harm than good.

Thank you. I think this is much better for our community. If people disagree, they should be able to explain their disagreement openly (myself included).

 

 

 

[EDIT]

 

At least you guys learned from empiricism and did something about it (a sign of true integrity among the staff here). Before, I probably just looked like the crazy naysayer who was waving his hands about for no good reason!

 

Not that you asked, but my take is that this leads to more problems than it solves. Neg rep makes bad blood, and inspires retaliation/retribution.

I've been at fora where this caused many problems. Neg rep is not very helpful, as it hurts feelings and causes retaliation. It tends to exaggerate arguments, and make threads deteriorate in general.

 

I've found here at SFN that w/o a neg rep option, any rebuttals or negative comments are shared openly, which inherently adds to the effect of teaching the poster how to be better since it's transparent and involves the whole community.

 

In short, my own stance (not that it matters much) is that neg rep does more harm than good, and that negative comments should be shared openly and with the purpose of correction, not punishing.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again. Negative reputation is problematic. It breeds contempt, bad blood, and is really nothing more than a punch in the face. One of the things I've always liked about SFN is that we keep things positive by not having neg rep. If you like a post, say thanks. If you disagree with a post, then refute it openly. This back door bitch slap of neg rep is just something that makes our community less cordial and for little (if any) benefit.

[/EDIT]

Edited November 3, 2009 by iNow

[JillSwift]

Thank you. I think this is much better for our community. If people disagree, they should be able to explain their disagreement openly (myself included).

+1, yes, stamp of approval, happiness.

[Mr Skeptic]

I'm rather disappointed in how negative rep is turning out. In the negative rep comments I've read there is nothing useful that couldn't have just been put in the thread, and most negative reps are just "you're wrong. roar," basically.

 

Just out of curiosity, were those more commonly from people with lower rep?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Nope. Those were most common from people with a good bit of rep themselves.

[StringJunky]

What about the idea of just letting Mods and Admin issue neg' rep as a disciplinary measure? They can give it, why can't they take it away?

 

On the Hewlett Packard (HP) forum each poster has a 'kudos' button that a reader can hit if they like a post and they have a leader board for the most kudo'd people on the home page..this strikes me as a 'nice' system that encourages helpfulness...the 'atmosphere' on that forum is particularly welcoming and helpful.

 

http://h30434.www3.hp.com/psg/ (look to the right: Top Kudo'd Authors)

[Phi for All]

What about the idea of just letting Mods and Admin issue neg' rep as a disciplinary measure? They can give it, why can't they take it away?

They already have an infraction system as a disciplinary measure. The reputation system is supposed to be for the community to have an influence on posters.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

The infraction system has been disabled because we believe it to be ineffective as a way of improving behavior. Mods do still have the ability to give negative rep but I'm not sure we'll use it as a disciplinary measure.

 

Infractions just pissed people off and then banned them. Neg rep seems to be the same, minus the banning.

[Phi for All]

Infractions just pissed people off and then banned them. Neg rep seems to be the same, minus the banning.

... plus the shame of having it displayed on each post, which just causes people to leave, essentially banning themselves.

 

Most everything can be handled in-thread, imo, but that takes vigilance on everyone's part, not just the staff.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Indeed. In-thread moderation is what I'm striving for -- sitting in the back and handing out infractions just doesn't work. The impersonal nature of the system, with its automated PMs and arbitrary "points", simply scared people rather than encouraging them to make better posts.

 

Today I'll reset negative reputations to the default value. I hope reputations will be a positive resource for the community.

[StringJunky]

"...... plus the shame of having it displayed on each post, which just causes people to leave, essentially banning themselves."- Phi

 

If new people had started from a higher rep base, say 5, and had 1 knocked off they would more likely see it as just a wake up call and have an opportunity to change...to go from 1 to a big fat zero when you might have just joined is a bit final....... WTF I've lost it all anyway

Long time posters here and people accustomed to the scientific method may not be aware that, or have forgotten, it can be quite unsettling for incoming laymen to adjust to this level of debating discipline demanded in a science forum and they are quite likely to be somewhat belligerent, when challenged on a point, at first, simply because they are not used to it.

 

A higher rep base would have given errant new posters some breathing space to adjust without losing everything...the margin for error on their part was too small.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

People start with 10 rep points. The trick is that some members have a rep power greater than 10, meaning they can remove all ten in one shot.

[StringJunky]

People start with 10 rep points. The trick is that some members have a rep power greater than 10, meaning they can remove all ten in one shot.

 

Perhaps that power needs curtailing to a smaller maximum...surely one 'smack' should just be worth the loss of one rep point regardless of a person's rep power, providing ,of course, they have the power to do so?

 

Why should a person who has been on the forum 5 times longer hit five times harder just because they've been there longer...at the moment with the present system, a person with a rep power of 10, just because they joined 10 years ago, can still be a dickhead...and have all that power!

 

This unequal distribution of power is why the Neg Rep didn't work, as you yourself have illustrated when asked where most of the neg repping came from:

 

"Nope. Those were most common from people with a good bit of rep themselves."

 

Reputation should be a function of a person's proven williness to help (no. of thanks).

 

Why not do away with the POWER part of Rep Power and just call it Reputation? and give all normal members a power to give /take 1?

 

Ask yourself this, why should someone with high rep have their expression of thank's/disapproval be worth more than mine (mine is one)? Their rep should be higher than mine because they will have given much more service to this forum than I but it does not seem sensible or democratic that they should give /take more...one man one vote and all that. Power should be distributed in units of one/person...... that is democracy.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

I already tampered with settings to reduce total rep power awarded, although more adjustments are probably needed. However, as part of my new hint-dropping campaign, I will say that the rep system may improve dramatically relatively soon.

[StringJunky]

I'm sure you'll suss out the best system eventually.

[timo]

I already tampered with settings to reduce total rep power awarded, although more adjustments are probably needed. However, as part of my new hint-dropping campaign, I will say that the rep system may improve dramatically relatively soon.

How about a decay over time, say 10% of every point above 10 every two months or so? To make this clear: I am explicitly talking about a percentage, not a fixed amount of points. This balances past reputation points and current posting style (I think the detail of the balance does not really matter), calms down inflation of points (to constantly keep a certain amount of rep. points you need to be constantly credited) and works without need for explicit negative points (I did not like the idea of negative points in the first place and certainly do not now but one could consider them them having been an interesting experiment, too).

Just an idea, though. I personally don't use the system so perhaps my opinion is not the most important one - it's mostly the people using or caring about it that should matter.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

That's an idea we've tossed around before and never gotten around to implementing. It seems like it would work very well.