I would like to try again to explain my opinion regarding the way to reach freedom

First some facts and opinions and info mixed:

• If you are religious, you obey to rules others made, not to your feelings/thoughts, you can't prove a god exists and created us and wants you to apply the rules of your religion.

• Human creates enjoyable tools and art.

• Humans can help each others for entertainment, like to discover new planets, which is not vital.

• Humans can help each others for vitality like emergency physicians, who imo are heroes.

• Living in society can be satisfying, having friends, love, is great.

• If you have a job you like, you have a secure situation, earn a lot of money, you can live a very comfortable and satisfying life.

• If you have no money, there is a possibility that you are sad, and you struggle to wash yourself, find food, etc.

• If you have very small money, a job you don't like, there is a possibility that you are happy anyway.

• You can be rich today, and become poor tomorrow.

• You can be worried about having no money, and you can also not worry about it, maybe because you think you will always have some.

• A wild animal that breaks his leg, gets a disease, can't go somewhere where they get healed, because they didn't evolve in a way that provides such service.

• All lands on the planet are claimed by multiple organizations called governments.

• Governments enforces rules, if a human on its land don't apply them, he get punished.

• There are big places on earth that even if you don't apply these rules, you are so remote, that the people who makes the govs' rules being applied, police, will not see, then not punish you.

• An animal can live alone

• An animal can live in a group, where there can be a dominant

• An animal doesn't pay to eat, neither to sleep, his body is suited for his environment, and he has the knowledge to find food.

• Long time ago, when a human broke his leg, got a disease, he could easily die because they didn't evolve as we are today, with the services we offer.

• A human can learn to build tools from scratch, like snares, to hunt

• A human can learn to recognize wild edibles

• There are places on Earth where the water is so clean that you can drink it without filtering it.

• A human can make fire without lighter, by friction.

• A human can know how to meet his basic needs without money, and also enjoy living in society with money and work.

• A human can enjoy practicing living out of society, and also enjoy living in society.

Imagine, you had the knowledge to meet your basic needs, comfortably, without money

Imagine you know a big, remote, suited area to practice that

I believe this is the best freedom you could get

This doesn't mean you would have to spend your life alone like that

It's just that if you were able to do this, you could reach the biggest freedom, when you want to.

2 questions:

Can you mention a bigger/better freedom?

Isn't it a shame/stupid to expect freedom on a land claimed by a government, where police can see you?

####

Maybe we don't have the same expectations from freedom

Sorry, I can't help myself :)

https://youtu.be/lLCEUpIg8rE

Edited 12 hours ago12 hr by Jacek

53 minutes ago, raphaelh42 said:

Imagine, you had the knowledge to meet your basic needs, comfortably, without money

Imagine you know a big, remote, suited area to practice that

But imagining is all this is. Can you identify such a place?

53 minutes ago, raphaelh42 said:

Isn't it a shame/stupid to expect freedom on a land claimed by a government, where police can see you?

####

Maybe we don't have the same expectations from freedom

And not having the same expectations renders the question moot.

I suspect most people view this within the constraints of living within a modern society, rather than some unobtainable idyllic daydream

7 hours ago, swansont said:

But imagining is all this is. Can you identify such a place?

I think the most suited place to practice that is the amazon rainforest because:

• it's huge, you could always go further/deeper if you ever encounter police (yes you could also encounter a killer and have no signal to call them so they save you lol)

• you can't die from freezing no matter the period of the year (but i understood you can get hypothermia if you stay under the rain too long)

• there is a lot of water to fish (but beware of contaminated places because of garimpeiros)

• there is animals to hunt and wild edibles to find

• some people drink some creeks' water directly when they know it's ok (but you can and should learn to build a water filter from scratch, and recipient to boil from scratch too)

  • if you want cleaner water, then there is alaska i guess, but it's not suited for our (new?) bodies because without fire/big clothes, you just die......

• you need big preparation/knowledge to prevent troubles because of insects (and even some spiky trees it seems), i think the only animal who could/would really kill you there are snakes.

I really see no better place

I've slept 2 weeks in there recently, in my case i had a bagback with tools (my knowledge/skills is not the subject on this thread)

But I felt so free, I could do like whatever I want, make fire, make noise to cut trees to build stuff, did fish, washed in creeks...

Since, I don't feel the same anymore when I live in society because I know this place exists

7 hours ago, swansont said:

I suspect most people view this within the constraints of living within a modern society, rather than some unobtainable idyllic daydream

I agree seems to me when people think about freedom, they think about having it while being in the society

But learning to meet your essential needs without money is not unobtainable, although I agree it maybe can seem very difficult... I mean it is...

Freedom is so precious, that when i see people expecting to become able to reach it thanks to money, in society, that annoys/disgust me

How can you expect to be really happy, feel really secure, if you can't feel free :(

I hope that everyone i've hurt with this subject on Phi for All's thread are now understanding what i meant

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by raphaelh42

25 minutes ago, raphaelh42 said:

I've slept 2 weeks in there recently, in my case i had a bagback with tools (my knowledge/skills is not the subject on this thread)

But I felt so free, I could do like whatever I want, make fire, make noise to cut trees to build stuff, did fish, washed in creeks...

Since, I don't feel the same anymore when I live in society because I know this place exists

Having spent a year working in and exploring a deeply remote part of the Gabonese rainforest, I know this feeling well. There's nothing quite as liberating as walking solo a couple of kilometres down a forest track at dawn, guessing how recently something else had been there from the strength of their scent, and the freshness of their scat.

But I also found out how it feels to have an arm temporarily paralysed from the bite of an unknown species of spider; having my vehicle charged by an irate forest buffalo; being caught unawares by a young bull elephant taking a paddle 20 paces to the right of where I was fishing a remote pool for tilapia.

Even out birdwatching here in Nigeria, I've turned to find my route back to the wankpanzer blocked by a large spotted hyaena.

This type of freedom comes at a cost: the imminent and quite real threat of being removed from the gene pool. Do you feel lucky?

54 minutes ago, sethoflagos said:

Having spent a year working in and exploring a deeply remote part of the Gabonese rainforest, I know this feeling well. There's nothing quite as liberating as walking solo a couple of kilometres down a forest track at dawn, guessing how recently something else had been there from the strength of their scent, and the freshness of their scat.

But I also found out how it feels to have an arm temporarily paralysed from the bite of an unknown species of spider; having my vehicle charged by an irate forest buffalo; being caught unawares by a young bull elephant taking a paddle 20 paces to the right of where I was fishing a remote pool for tilapia.

Even out birdwatching here in Nigeria, I've turned to find my route back to the wankpanzer blocked by a large spotted hyaena.

This type of freedom comes at a cost: the imminent and quite real threat of being removed from the gene pool. Do you feel lucky?

Can happen anywhere.I was walking across the field in Ireland when I noticed a crowd of animals approching me very fast.I retreated to a nearby ditch and was leapt over by a pack of hunting dogs following the scent laid down by a member of the local drag hunt.

They were too engrossed to notice me, hunkered down in the ditch but I assumed they would have made short work of me if they had .

My aunt ,whose husband was a hydrologist for the UN in N Africa told me that the roads were sometimes block by rivers of ants (migratory?)

And a schoolfriend suffered whiplash when a kangaroo escaped from Stanway Zoo and landed on his car.

So many exits ,only one ending.

2 hours ago, raphaelh42 said:

I think the most suited place to practice that is the amazon rainforest because:

…

I really see no better place

But it’s in a region claimed/controlled by government

2 hours ago, raphaelh42 said:

I've slept 2 weeks in there recently, in my case i had a bagback with tools

But your backpack and tools were not fashioned by you, or presumably made by hand, from scratch, by anybody.

2 hours ago, raphaelh42 said:

(my knowledge/skills is not the subject on this thread)

It actually is. You are claiming people should do things, but if you aren’t able to do them why is it reasonable to expect others to do them? It’s like calling on people to make sacrifices you aren’t willing to make yourself.