Let's keep this a bit light, Asking for a friend,

What should a layman (or someone interested in science but with no credentials) do if he thinks he came up with a good new scientific idea?

3 minutes ago, Darksand said:

Let's keep this a bit light, Asking for a friend,

What should a layman (or someone interested in science but with no credentials) do if he thinks he came up with a good new scientific idea?

What's the idea?

6 minutes ago, Darksand said:

Let's keep this a bit light, Asking for a friend,

What should a layman (or someone interested in science but with no credentials) do if he thinks he came up with a good new scientific idea?

If a layman has an idea, let him knock himself on the head and go to school.... ;)

ps. You can ask ChatGPT (but some in the persons of swansont and exchemists, may have objections), and he will explain why the idea, is nonsense.

ps2. You can replace ChatGPT, with a teacher at school, it will not change anything for the better, in fact for the worse, because the teacher at school will not have so much patience in answering why something will not work..

Edited June 15Jun 15 by Sensei

They can post here, and get some informal peer-review. Odds are that there will be some holes in it that will be pointed out.

Just now, Darksand said:

Let's keep this a bit light, Asking for a friend,

What should a layman (or someone interested in science but with no credentials) do if he thinks he came up with a good new scientific idea?

If neither of you are scientific persons how do you know this idea is scientific ?

Since you have just joined, you (or your 'friend') may not realise that members may only have one account by the rules.

Science is based on evidence. You have a thing that is 10m high and you drop it, and it lands at 0m in some time, you measure that time. You do the same for 5m and 2m, and for 20m, 50m, etc. from this you can make yourself a mathematical function f(t)=

If you make a theory for yourself that you can't support by obvious observations, then it becomes a problem..

12 minutes ago, Sensei said:

If a layman has an idea, let him knock himself on the head and go to school.... ;)

ps. You can ask ChatGPT (but some in the persons of swansont and exchemists, may have objections), and he will explain why the idea, is nonsense.

ps2. You can replace ChatGPT, with a teacher at school, it will not change anything for the better, in fact for the worse, because the teacher at school will not have so much patience in answering why something will not work..

But what if he did all of that, Read many books, discussed on forums (not about this idea, but subjects that are part of it) understands at least the accepted science behind it, he just isn't a "real" scientist. There is no math involved, just a new elegant idea that he has in his mind for years.

6 minutes ago, studiot said:

If neither of you are scientific persons how do you know this idea is scientific ?

Since you have just joined, you (or your 'friend') may not realise that members may only have one account by the rules.

If you are not a cook, how do you know to cook any food? Or know what is delicious.

Just now, Darksand said:

There is no math involved,

Well if it is one idea, it rather depends which science it appertains to.

Some science such as Astrophysics have little or no meaning without maths.

In some other sciences such as geology you can establish a whole lot without mathematics.

Just now, Darksand said:

If you are not a cook, how do you know to cook any food? Or know what is delicious.

One man's meat is literally another's poison.

The question to me is also what you mean with "scientific". There are practical discoveries and invention that lay persons can arguably make based on known principles.

It is somewhat different to push the boundaries of scientific knowledge. The latter requires a much detailed and nuanced understanding of the current state of the art in a given subject, and in many disciplines also requires collecting data to support the idea. Otherwise it is just unsubstantiated speculation which generally do not amount to much.

I will also add that the plateau is almost certainly at a much lower point than the peak.

1 hour ago, Darksand said:

But what if he did all of that, Read many books, discussed on forums (not about this idea, but subjects that are part of it) understands at least the accepted science behind it, he just isn't a "real" scientist.

It really doesn't matter who your friend is or what they've done, in the long run. If the idea is sound, it will pass review by those who've studied science. If it's based on a few misconceptions (which most untrained ideas are), those can be corrected, and if the idea is still viable (hasn't been falsified) then the idea is stronger for it, better supported. It's really all about the evidence that backs it up.

It's not at all about credentials, it's about knowledge, or lack of ignorance in a certain area. We all have ignorance to overcome, and it's best to fill the gaps in our knowledge with trusted explanations rather than guesswork and whimsy.

Post the idea in the appropriate section and we'll attack it mercilessly. The idea, not you. We don't attack people here.

1 hour ago, Darksand said:

But what if he did all of that, Read many books, discussed on forums (not about this idea, but subjects that are part of it) understands at least the accepted science behind it, he just isn't a "real" scientist. There is no math involved, just a new elegant idea that he has in his mind for years.

We have such people here - not credentialed but well-read.

The best thing to do is get feedback. It also helps to not be emotionally invested in the idea, in order to be objective.

One should also add that credentials also do not really mean much, if someone with credentials proposes something silly (we also had that here) that idea will be taken apart just as well. This is part of the mechanism.

On 6/15/2025 at 11:20 PM, Darksand said:

new elegant idea that he has in his mind for years.

Can you give us an outline of what it is?

A little bit along the lines of what Phi and Swansont said, tell your friend: Try to start by being your own critic. Be objective. Try to think, 'how could this idea be wrong?' instead of so much on 'why don't people immediately see how beautiful this idea is?'

The history of science sometimes focuses too much on the epiphany, the eureka moment, and glosses over the bouts of painful self-criticism the authors themselves had to apply. Also by others.

The history of sience is full of simply elegant ideas that had to be hammered out into useful ones.

What if he came to a nice realization in the past, all by himself, and he could not find anything online about this thing. Then he talked about it on forums. And some time later, that same idea hit mainstream.

He is not saying he was the first one that came up with it, but he would also never know right?

maybe he now keeps things to himself until he finds a way to get at least some credits....

Just now, Darksand said:

What if he came to a nice realization in the past, all by himself, and he could not find anything online about this thing. Then he talked about it on forums. And some time later, that same idea hit mainstream.

He is not saying he was the first one that came up with it, but he would also never know right?

maybe he now keeps things to himself until he finds a way to get at least some credits....

I agree that is a very real danger and leads to a very real fear.

One of the reasons I asked you what field of Science was involved is because one way towards overcoming this lies in the correspondence pages of respected journals, for instance the journals of professional institutions.

Obviously a suitable journal would have to be selected.

Your friend could then write a 'letter to the editor' giving brief outline details, perhaps suggesting what new understanding the idea could lead to.

This would then establish his or her right to be the first to come up with it.

Over to you.

Here is a true story of the discovery of the microscope by a non scientist, which lead to the very deep scientific idea by a self confessed dreamer.

When a cloth mechant called van Leeuwenhoek needed to examine the quality of his cloth he taught himself to grind strong lenses.
This also led to him discovering the microscope and microbes.

A writer, called Jonathan Swift, heard about this and penned this thought which actually is incredibly deep, scientifically.

Little fleas have smaller fleas
Upon their backs to bitem.
And these small fleas have lesser fleas
and so on ad infinitum

On 6/15/2025 at 2:51 PM, Darksand said:

Let's keep this a bit light, Asking for a friend,

What should a layman (or someone interested in science but with no credentials) do if he thinks he came up with a good new scientific idea?

Perhaps try to draw attention from the scientific community. Here’s my best advice, the idea they have should be stored privately in the Open Science Framework (OSF) and the idea could be shared on ResearchGate for communication on it.

10 hours ago, Darksand said:

What if he came to a nice realization in the past, all by himself, and he could not find anything online about this thing. Then he talked about it on forums. And some time later, that same idea hit mainstream.

He is not saying he was the first one that came up with it, but he would also never know right?

maybe he now keeps things to himself until he finds a way to get at least some credits....

Please learn to use the quote function. We don't know what particular argument you're answering to.

13 hours ago, pinball1970 said:

Can you give us an outline of what it is?

Yes. Can you give us an outline of what it is?

7 hours ago, joigus said:

Please learn to use the quote function. We don't know what particular argument you're answering to.

Why did you say this?

I did quotes earlier

It wasn't an answer.

2 hours ago, Darksand said:

Why did you say this?

I did quotes earlier

It wasn't an answer.

Can you at least tell us the which area of STEM? Technology? Physics? Astronomy? Biology? Engineering?

2 hours ago, Darksand said:

Why did you say this?

I did quotes earlier

It wasn't an answer.

I didn't know whom it was addressed to.

1 hour ago, pinball1970 said:

Can you at least tell us the which area of STEM? Technology? Physics? Astronomy? Biology? Engineering?

Astronomy.

22 hours ago, Darksand said:

What if he came to a nice realization in the past, all by himself, and he could not find anything online about this thing. Then he talked about it on forums. And some time later, that same idea hit mainstream.

He is not saying he was the first one that came up with it, but he would also never know right?

maybe he now keeps things to himself until he finds a way to get at least some credits....

Since that particular cat is out of the bag, can you tell us what the idea was?

1 minute ago, swansont said:

Since that particular cat is out of the bag, can you tell us what the idea was?

That old idea? yes for sure.

In short: the realisation that if the universe is 13.8 billion years old, and we can see 13.8 billion lightyears far. and the universe is expanding. Wouldn't the star that emitted the light that we see at the farthest spot be way further away? Because it took 13.8 billion years for it's light to reach us. that star had 13.8 billion years to "expand" further away.

So this is not the new idea.

Edited June 18Jun 18 by Darksand
comma

1 hour ago, Darksand said:

That old idea? yes for sure.

In short: the realisation that if the universe is 13.8 billion years old, and we can see 13.8 billion lightyears far. and the universe is expanding. Wouldn't the star that emitted the light that we see at the farthest spot be way further away? Because it took 13.8 billion years for it's light to reach us. that star had 13.8 billion years to "expand" further away.

So this is not the new idea.

And your friend thought this was not being considered? The observable universe has a radius of about 46 billion light-years. 46 > 13.8

We’ve known this for quite some time.