Hi

i understand that no matter if we want:

• a ton of money to buy cool cars

• make the world a cleaner place

• help animals

We do this because achieving it would make us happy

Is the brain searching for happiness the main the motivation of a living being?* No matter the species?

If yes, knowing that, doesn't it mean you know that all your life you will basically just try one thing: be happy?

Isn't it depressing/boring? i'm never bored, but thinking about this, i think it is

I like to hack stuff, I'm wondering if there was a way to replace the goal of happiness by something else, what could it be, what could be the result...

And anyway why the brain wants that? Does it serve some greater cause in the end? Us being happy, might profit to a living conscious being that we don't know about

___

*Or is the main motivation about not being hungry/cold/sick, then be happy?

Edited May 10May 10 by raphaelh42

In the end it seems to me that before seeking for happiness, we seek for safety

i don't remember feeling depressed during adventures in the wild, making shelter, trying to fish, making fire, i felt rather alive

I think it's then, when you can satisfy safety easily thanks to modernity/money, then it's just about wanting extras, entertainment, happiness

so the title of the thread is wrong

But anyway, as a solution to the depressing feeling of seeking for happiness, i guess that alternating regularly between seeking for safety in the wild, and seeking for happiness/entertainment in the modern world, that can help to feel more alive, and not just obsessed with the quest for happiness

Edited May 12May 12 by raphaelh42

On 5/10/2025 at 10:50 AM, raphaelh42 said:

We do this because achieving it would make us happy

We try to achieve these things is because we believe they would make us happy. Quite often, achievement of a goal disappoints and causes even more discontent.

On 5/10/2025 at 10:50 AM, raphaelh42 said:

Is the brain searching for happiness the main the motivation of a living being?* No matter the species?

Yes, of course. Happiness is not a single emotion, but a state of mind made up of many factors. For most animals, happiness consists of meeting their needs: physical well-being, freedom from fear and hunger, good weather, healthy offspring. The more intelligent animals have more facets to their notion of happiness, including sustained security, affection, leisure to play, intellectual challenge, the respect of their flock, troop or pack. Look at it like Maslow's pyramid : the more complex the animal's brain, the more complex its requirements for happiness.

On 5/10/2025 at 10:50 AM, raphaelh42 said:

If yes, knowing that, doesn't it mean you know that all your life you will basically just try one thing: be happy?

Isn't it depressing/boring?

No. Because almost nobody is always happy. No matter how privileged or sheltered a person is, there will be some pain, loss, disappointment, grief and frustration in her life. When those things happen, he forgets all his other preoccupations and concentrates on how badly he feels. When it's relieved, that makes them happy - for a little while, until they starts desiring something else. In a lifetime, a human being can be happy and unhappy many times, doing many different things.

Some lucky few are happy most of the the time, because they have the companionship, status, placement in the world and work that best suits them. They're never bored, because their environment and activity provides a variety of opportunities for satisfying experience.

You can see them here.

On 5/10/2025 at 10:50 AM, raphaelh42 said:

I'm wondering if there was a way to replace the goal of happiness by something else, what could it be, what could be the result...

Sure. Some people sacrifice their happiness for another person's, for the pursuit of power or fame, for the favour of a human or supernatural idol or the triumph of a cause they deem more important than themselves. The results are mixed, often including conflict, waste, injustice, grief, destruction, delusion, cruelty, killing, martyrdom.... and sometimes the making of a superstar or the liberation of a people from their oppressors.

On 5/10/2025 at 10:50 AM, raphaelh42 said:

Or is the main motivation about not being hungry/cold/sick,

Those are the prerequisites for a state where you can begin to think about seeking happiness. The first step is to stop being miserable.

The happiest people I know who sustain a state of happiness most reliably are gardeners and crafters. Better if they're both. Better still if married. Best if they also have a pet.

Edited May 12May 12 by Peterkin
left something out and made mistakes in typing

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

No. Because almost nobody is always happy.

I meant that no matter if you are happy or sad, when you know that after safety, the only thing you will seek for is happiness, it's like end of the story, you know what you will always try to do, be happy, or stay happy

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

Sure. Some people sacrifice their happiness for another person's, for the pursuit of power or fame, for the favour of a human or supernatural idol or the triumph of a cause they deem more important than themselves.

But in the end the goal remains the same, they do this to be happy

2 hours ago, Peterkin said:

The first step is to stop being miserable.

I would rather say it's the first step to remain alive

---

I think you can be sad and never bored, it's a bit my case

Can you be happy while not feeling alive? Can you be happy while being bored?

I think you can be in the state of seeking for safety, and being sad, but not bored

Would that mean that happiness, brings boredom, and then brings sadness...

i think i've heard like boredom is a luxury, it kinda makes sense after all

Edited May 12May 12 by raphaelh42

2 hours ago, raphaelh42 said:

I meant that no matter if you are happy or sad, when you know that after safety, the only thing you will seek for is happiness, it's like end of the story, you know what you will always try to do, be happy, or stay happy

Wrong. That is not how people think - and I very much doubt you think that way yourself. For one thing, you don't know whether you will be safe, warm and fed tomorrow. So you have to ensure those things, which takes time and effort away from the pursuit of happiness. We will always want something specific, strive to accomplish something, work toward goals which requires that we do a lot of unpleasant things, like pass exams, prepare for interviews, work at a job we don't like, put off vacations and entertainments - make choices. That (the generic term for it is 'living') keeps people pretty busy.

2 hours ago, raphaelh42 said:

But in the end the goal remains the same, they do this to be happy

Wrong!

2 hours ago, raphaelh42 said:

I would rather say it's the first step to remain alive.

You can survive in misery. Lots of people do.

If you're determined to believe that everything we ever do is seek happiness, fine. If you think that's boring, fine. If you think life isn't worth living, fine.

But why do you want to discuss a topic that has no resolution this side of death?

6 hours ago, raphaelh42 said:

when you know that after safety, the only thing you will seek for is happiness

Seems to me, some people are made very happy by being unsafe. Skydiving, auto racing and bicycle dual slalom immediately come to mind.

Being in nature is restorative.

Being well rested is restorative.

Being tired from exercise is restorative.

Being around people we care about is restorative.

Being involved in meaningful work is restorative.

Being helpful to others is restorative.

Being accepting of things as they are is restorative.

Being restored is the way to escape depression, or at least blunt its impact.

Happiness isn’t the goal. It’s too short lived. Too ephemeral. Focus instead on restoring yourself. From there comes strength.

Wow. Speaking words of wisdom... +1

Try not to sound so surprised 😄

11 hours ago, iNow said:

Being in nature is restorative.

Being well rested is restorative.

Being tired from exercise is restorative.

Being around people we care about is restorative.

Being involved in meaningful work is restorative.

Being helpful to others is restorative.

Being accepting of things as they are is restorative.

Being restored is the way to escape depression, or at least blunt its impact.

Happiness isn’t the goal. It’s too short lived. Too ephemeral. Focus instead on restoring yourself. From there comes strength.

Glasshopper! 😊

14 hours ago, Peterkin said:

For one thing, you don't know whether you will be safe, warm and fed tomorrow. So you have to ensure those things, which takes time and effort away from the pursuit of happiness.

i agree that when you seek for safety, then i believe it doesn't come to your mind that seeking for happiness is boring

12 hours ago, npts2020 said:

Seems to me, some people are made very happy by being unsafe. Skydiving, auto racing and bicycle dual slalom immediately come to mind.

Seems to me too

What comes to my mind is climbing without rope, when i'm up, i feel no boredom, no sadness, no anger, i feel fear, and i only think about my movements, for my safety

And when i'm back down, i feel safe, and happy for some time, reassured, even kinda proud, because i somehow came to see the brother of the life, instead of running away from it

I guess setting up some rotation between danger and safety might be a way not to experience/remain in state of boredom/sadness caused by how it's easy to remain safe

Edited May 13May 13 by raphaelh42

23 minutes ago, raphaelh42 said:

I guess setting up some rotation between danger and safety might be a way not to experience/remain in state of boredom/sadness caused by how it's easy to remain safe

Your are speaking of the lucky minority. If your biggest problem is boredom, you are the envy of three quarters of the world's population. Look around for something more meaningful to do than dosing yourself with little thrills.

I'm never bored, i work on huge projects, for other species and the environment, it's just the idea that in the end, i do it just to be happy, i think it's like egoism

i guess i used to think i'm better than others because i live for greater causes, but in the end, i live just to be happy, after being safe, like everyone, seems to me

Edited May 13May 13 by raphaelh42

53 minutes ago, raphaelh42 said:

I meant that no matter if you are happy or sad, when you know that after safety, the only thing you will seek for is happiness, it's like end of the story, you know what you will always try to do, be happy, or stay happy

But in the end the goal remains the same, they do this to be happy

I don't think happiness is the goal. The goal is doing things and being with others you enjoy. There will be times when you realize just how happy this makes you, but that wasn't the goal. The goal is still doing things and being with others you enjoy. Does that make sense?

I think you can search for things and people you enjoy, but you can't search for happiness. Perhaps happiness is a property of humans, rather than something to be found elsewhere?

29 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I don't think happiness is the goal. The goal is doing things and being with others you enjoy. There will be times when you realize just how happy this makes you, but that wasn't the goal. The goal is still doing things and being with others you enjoy. Does that make sense?

I think you can search for things and people you enjoy, but you can't search for happiness. Perhaps happiness is a property of humans, rather than something to be found elsewhere?

I think i understand, i guess my problem is i think too much about "what is the purpose", instead of enjoying and living

my grand father told me that when i was very young, and they proposed me stuff like let's go see ducks at the pond, i said like "for what purpose?"...

i guess i should try to let go someday

Edited May 13May 13 by raphaelh42

10 hours ago, exchemist said:

Glasshopper! 😊

I’ve not yet snatched the pebble

Maybe, we just replace the word happy with the word content...

1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

Maybe, we just replace the word happy with the word content...

If we wanted to skew the meaning of both emotions, I suppose. Personally, I find a great deal of difference between being satisfied and being elated.

I think, in this context, happiness is either a byproduct of living or it's a property of sentience. If it's simply an emotion, how healthy is it to want it all the time? Would we be able to recognize that we're happy if we never knew sad?

39 minutes ago, Phi for All said:

I think, in this context, happiness is either a byproduct of living or it's a property of sentience. If it's simply an emotion, how healthy is it to want it all the time? Would we be able to recognize that we're happy if we never knew sad?

I don't know, but I do know what it's like to be hungry...

On 5/14/2025 at 3:34 PM, Phi for All said:

If we wanted to skew the meaning of both emotions, I suppose. Personally, I find a great deal of difference between being satisfied and being elated.

I think, in this context, happiness is either a byproduct of living or it's a property of sentience. If it's simply an emotion, how healthy is it to want it all the time? Would we be able to recognize that we're happy if we never knew sad?

I see contentment as a base state, from which we safely process the emotion.

2 hours ago, dimreepr said:

I see contentment as a base state, from which we safely process the emotion.

Well put - and Wordsworthian. Wordsworth wrote that poetry came from emotion recollected in a state of tranquility.

On 5/12/2025 at 4:59 PM, Peterkin said:

We try to achieve these things is because we believe they would make us happy. Quite often, achievement of a goal disappoints and causes even more discontent.

Yes, of course. Happiness is not a single emotion, but a state of mind made up of many factors. For most animals, happiness consists of meeting their needs: physical well-being, freedom from fear and hunger, good weather, healthy offspring. The more intelligent animals have more facets to their notion of happiness, including sustained security, affection, leisure to play, intellectual challenge, the respect of their flock, troop or pack. Look at it like Maslow's pyramid : the more complex the animal's brain, the more complex its requirements for happiness.

No. Because almost nobody is always happy. No matter how privileged or sheltered a person is, there will be some pain, loss, disappointment, grief and frustration in her life. When those things happen, he forgets all his other preoccupations and concentrates on how badly he feels. When it's relieved, that makes them happy - for a little while, until they starts desiring something else. In a lifetime, a human being can be happy and unhappy many times, doing many different things.

Some lucky few are happy most of the the time, because they have the companionship, status, placement in the world and work that best suits them. They're never bored, because their environment and activity provides a variety of opportunities for satisfying experience.

You can see them here.

Sure. Some people sacrifice their happiness for another person's, for the pursuit of power or fame, for the favour of a human or supernatural idol or the triumph of a cause they deem more important than themselves. The results are mixed, often including conflict, waste, injustice, grief, destruction, delusion, cruelty, killing, martyrdom.... and sometimes the making of a superstar or the liberation of a people from their oppressors.

Those are the prerequisites for a state where you can begin to think about seeking happiness. The first step is to stop being miserable.

The happiest people I know who sustain a state of happiness most reliably are gardeners and crafters. Better if they're both. Better still if married. Best if they also have a pet.

Your post is closest to how I would respond to the OP and also throw in Dawkins gene centric view of what our brains and "survival machines" are.

Genes build brains as part of a body, that has come from parents who survived long enough and well enough to have offspring.

So the purpose of a brain is not to make the individual happy but it is to do the things that allow that body to survive to adult hood and pass on those genes.

The Selfish Gene, chapter "the gene machine" page 63.

"The main way brains actually contribute to the survival machines is by controlling and coordinating contraction of muscles.......but this leads to the efficient preservation of genes only if the timing ....relates to events in the outside world."

So bite something worth biting=happy, not worth biting= not happy.

So happiness is a by product of being successful it is not a want.

1 hour ago, pinball1970 said:

So happiness is a by product of being successful it is not a want.

What if your hungry and find a happy meal?

6 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

What if your hungry and find a happy meal?

You got me!

Just discussing Mac D on another thread strangely enough.

Some animals, when their brains are stimulated by appropriate chemicals or appropriate electrical impulses, can even die of starvation. They stop looking for food, stop all their normal activities, and just live in constant euphoria until they die. Of course, scientists are helping them in this experiment..