Does evolution have a direction?

[PrimalMinister]

We have oceans, land and an atmosphere, is it any surprise that we have things swimming in the water, walking on the land and flying in the air? I mean the design of a wing comes from the aerodynamics of the air, wasn't it inevitable wings ended up the way they did? I mean there is light, we end up with eyes, there is sound, we end up with ears, what else was going to happen?

[exchemist]

24 minutes ago, PrimalMinister said:

We have oceans, land and an atmosphere, is it any surprise that we have things swimming in the water, walking on the land and flying in the air? I mean the design of a wing comes from the aerodynamics of the air, wasn't it inevitable wings ended up the way they did? I mean there is light, we end up with eyes, there is sound, we end up with ears, what else was going to happen?

It's not a surprise that organisms adapt to make use of their environment, if that is what you mean. That's what evolution does, after all.  

[Genady]

1 hour ago, PrimalMinister said:

wasn't it inevitable wings ended up the way they did?

For the same aerodynamics of air, there is a great variety of wings. Even more if we consider wings of extinct organisms as well. Even more could be but were not realized.

 

39 minutes ago, exchemist said:

there is light, we end up with eyes, there is sound, we end up with ears, what else was going to happen?

Organisms did not utilize, e.g., wind energy until humans invented windmills and wind turbines.

[John Cuthber]

1 minute ago, Genady said:

Organisms did not utilize, e.g., wind energy until humans invented windmills and wind turbines.

The dandelions in my garden disagree.
So do lots of birds.

[Genady]

Just now, John Cuthber said:

The dandelions in my garden disagree.
So do lots of birds.

Yes, I know. They use air flow. But they don't harvest energy from it. This is what I meant.

[John Cuthber]

Bird goes up.
That means doing work against gravity.

[Genady]

Just now, John Cuthber said:

Bird goes up.
That means doing work against gravity.

OK. This is the weight of the bird times distance, small amount of energy compared to the energy that is there in the wind and goes unused.

[dimreepr]

1 hour ago, PrimalMinister said:

I mean there is light, we end up with eyes, there is sound, we end up with ears, what else was going to happen?

Well, the plant's use light differently and they have a different idea about the sound a tree makes when it falls in the forest. 

Evolutions direction is to survive today and think about tomorrow when the sun rises... 😉

[Genady]

1 hour ago, PrimalMinister said:

We have oceans, land and an atmosphere, is it any surprise that we have things swimming in the water, walking on the land and flying in the air?

We have ice and snow high in the mountains, is it any surprise that we have ... umm ... we have ...?

[Phi for All]

2 hours ago, PrimalMinister said:

I mean the design of a wing comes from the aerodynamics of the air, wasn't it inevitable wings ended up the way they did?

Which wing design are you talking about? How did wings "end up"? Did they "end" at all?

[TheVat]

2 hours ago, PrimalMinister said:

We have oceans, land and an atmosphere, is it any surprise that we have things swimming in the water, walking on the land and flying in the air? I mean the design of a wing comes from the aerodynamics of the air, wasn't it inevitable wings ended up the way they did?

One cause of organisms to change is when there is some selective pressure in those environments - flight developed not because it was inevitable but because some species gained a reproductive advantage in developing the ability to become airborne.   For such reasons as escaping predation or better location of food or traversing rough terrain or a combination of factors.  So it's a matter of complex pressures in a particular ecosystem.  So, as others point out, there is a variety of different wing configurations.  A dragonfly and a condor have quite different wings.  And (per @Genady pointed question) we have snow high in the mountains and yet no species growing skis or snowboards. (only a snowshoe hare, which is really just having large back feet) 

[John Cuthber]

On 5/15/2023 at 1:06 PM, Genady said:

...small amount of energy compared to ...

How much energy do you think the bird needs?

[Genady]

4 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

How much energy do you think the bird needs?

They get a lot from food.

[John Cuthber]

53 minutes ago, Genady said:

They get a lot from food.

So they don't need to get much from elsewhere.

[Genady]

1 hour ago, John Cuthber said:

So they don't need to get much from elsewhere.

Yes, they have found another way.

[John Cuthber]

19 minutes ago, Genady said:

Yes, they have found another way.

Yes; they got energy from the wind.
 

 

On 5/15/2023 at 1:02 PM, Genady said:

They use air flow. But they don't harvest energy from it.

Oh yes they do.
See above.

Do you now accept that I was right all along?

[Genady]

48 minutes ago, John Cuthber said:

Do you now accept that I was right all along?

Yes.

[Chris Sawatsky]

Does evolution have a direction?

Primarily evolution is the development of psychological, physical and spiritual coping mechanisms. For this reply spirituality is defined as positive or negative energy that is created when we think and act. As all actions are born in thought, either conscious or unconscious the two combined sum up the nature of the action and thought that proceeded said action. Observing other life forms and studying the most successful (Ants, termites, bees and hornets) I believe evolution does not have a "Direction" per se but rather a purpose which is to enable life to overcome anything that prevents us from living our full lives and creating offspring to succeed us. It seems that the next phase of evolution for humanity is to come together and focus our energies on a mutually beneficial goal. The most obvious is space travel and the inhabitation of other planets that are conducive to life. We have considered heaven to be up in the sky, our destination if we are "Good" and a paradise that lasts forever. Hell is deep under ground, made of burning sulfur and fire and it is our destination if we are "Bad". In an estimated 4 billion years from now it is said that our star will run out of Hydrogen, Helium and other light elements, begin burning heavier elements and becoming hotter and hotter until it goes Supernova. Long before this our planet will become much too hot for life so between now and then the temperature will slowly rise and our environment will change with it becoming somewhat like Venus. If humanity does not find another planet that is suitable for life, develop a strategy to collect samples of life on earth to transplant on other planets and invent ways and means to travel to said planet with all surviving, our fate is sealed. The only way this is even remotely possible is if Humanity sheds its ignorance and selfishness and begins living like a "Superorganism" like ants and termites. All coming together and focusing our time and energies on a mutually beneficial goal that is broken down into smaller, more manageable goals that are each worked on by subgroups that are educated or familiar with the subjects i.e. Biology, Engineering, etc. This goal and certain sub-goals will span generations so the BIG PICTURE must be the focus. Selfishness and other human traits must be avoided and the TRUTH must be honored. Theories, Beliefs and Concepts like Race and Male Superiority over Woman must be overcome. All evidence suggests that all human beings are more than 99% identical as people develop according to the environment they evolve in. Africans moved from North Africa to the equator and developed darker pigment in their skin to shield them from excess solar radiation. Caucasians moved north and became lighter skinned to allow what little skin was exposed to absorb sunlight needed to process certain vitamins and minerals. Asians went east and lived in a flat frozen area of the earth as an ice age was coming to the end. Asians, Inuit and North American Natives are all of the same group. As time went on and the earth warmed people moved around more freely and began cross breeding and forming most of the other cultures alive today. 

[exchemist]

14 hours ago, Chris Sawatsky said:

Does evolution have a direction?

Primarily evolution is the development of psychological, physical and spiritual coping mechanisms. For this reply spirituality is defined as positive or negative energy that is created when we think and act. As all actions are born in thought, either conscious or unconscious the two combined sum up the nature of the action and thought that proceeded said action. Observing other life forms and studying the most successful (Ants, termites, bees and hornets) I believe evolution does not have a "Direction" per se but rather a purpose which is to enable life to overcome anything that prevents us from living our full lives and creating offspring to succeed us. It seems that the next phase of evolution for humanity is to come together and focus our energies on a mutually beneficial goal. The most obvious is space travel and the inhabitation of other planets that are conducive to life. We have considered heaven to be up in the sky, our destination if we are "Good" and a paradise that lasts forever. Hell is deep under ground, made of burning sulfur and fire and it is our destination if we are "Bad". In an estimated 4 billion years from now it is said that our star will run out of Hydrogen, Helium and other light elements, begin burning heavier elements and becoming hotter and hotter until it goes Supernova. Long before this our planet will become much too hot for life so between now and then the temperature will slowly rise and our environment will change with it becoming somewhat like Venus. If humanity does not find another planet that is suitable for life, develop a strategy to collect samples of life on earth to transplant on other planets and invent ways and means to travel to said planet with all surviving, our fate is sealed. The only way this is even remotely possible is if Humanity sheds its ignorance and selfishness and begins living like a "Superorganism" like ants and termites. All coming together and focusing our time and energies on a mutually beneficial goal that is broken down into smaller, more manageable goals that are each worked on by subgroups that are educated or familiar with the subjects i.e. Biology, Engineering, etc. This goal and certain sub-goals will span generations so the BIG PICTURE must be the focus. Selfishness and other human traits must be avoided and the TRUTH must be honored. Theories, Beliefs and Concepts like Race and Male Superiority over Woman must be overcome. All evidence suggests that all human beings are more than 99% identical as people develop according to the environment they evolve in. Africans moved from North Africa to the equator and developed darker pigment in their skin to shield them from excess solar radiation. Caucasians moved north and became lighter skinned to allow what little skin was exposed to absorb sunlight needed to process certain vitamins and minerals. Asians went east and lived in a flat frozen area of the earth as an ice age was coming to the end. Asians, Inuit and North American Natives are all of the same group. As time went on and the earth warmed people moved around more freely and began cross breeding and forming most of the other cultures alive today. 

Why are you waffling about spirituality in a biology thread? 

 

 

[Bufofrog]

15 hours ago, Chris Sawatsky said:

it is said that our star will run out of Hydrogen, Helium and other light elements, begin burning heavier elements and becoming hotter and hotter until it goes Supernova.

It is wrong, because the sun will not become a supernova.

15 hours ago, Chris Sawatsky said:

Primarily evolution is the development of psychological, physical and spiritual coping mechanisms.

No, it is about changes in a populations genetic makeup over time.  

[Phi for All]

15 hours ago, Chris Sawatsky said:

Does evolution have a direction?

Primarily evolution is the development of psychological, physical and spiritual coping mechanisms. For this reply spirituality is defined as positive or negative energy that is created when we think and act. As all actions are born in thought, either conscious or unconscious the two combined sum up the nature of the action and thought that proceeded said action. Observing other life forms and studying the most successful (Ants, termites, bees and hornets) I believe evolution does not have a "Direction" per se but rather a purpose which is to enable life to overcome anything that prevents us from living our full lives and creating offspring to succeed us. It seems that the next phase of evolution for humanity is to come together and focus our energies on a mutually beneficial goal. The most obvious is space travel and the inhabitation of other planets that are conducive to life. We have considered heaven to be up in the sky, our destination if we are "Good" and a paradise that lasts forever. Hell is deep under ground, made of burning sulfur and fire and it is our destination if we are "Bad". In an estimated 4 billion years from now it is said that our star will run out of Hydrogen, Helium and other light elements, begin burning heavier elements and becoming hotter and hotter until it goes Supernova. Long before this our planet will become much too hot for life so between now and then the temperature will slowly rise and our environment will change with it becoming somewhat like Venus. If humanity does not find another planet that is suitable for life, develop a strategy to collect samples of life on earth to transplant on other planets and invent ways and means to travel to said planet with all surviving, our fate is sealed. The only way this is even remotely possible is if Humanity sheds its ignorance and selfishness and begins living like a "Superorganism" like ants and termites. All coming together and focusing our time and energies on a mutually beneficial goal that is broken down into smaller, more manageable goals that are each worked on by subgroups that are educated or familiar with the subjects i.e. Biology, Engineering, etc. This goal and certain sub-goals will span generations so the BIG PICTURE must be the focus. Selfishness and other human traits must be avoided and the TRUTH must be honored. Theories, Beliefs and Concepts like Race and Male Superiority over Woman must be overcome. All evidence suggests that all human beings are more than 99% identical as people develop according to the environment they evolve in. Africans moved from North Africa to the equator and developed darker pigment in their skin to shield them from excess solar radiation. Caucasians moved north and became lighter skinned to allow what little skin was exposed to absorb sunlight needed to process certain vitamins and minerals. Asians went east and lived in a flat frozen area of the earth as an ice age was coming to the end. Asians, Inuit and North American Natives are all of the same group. As time went on and the earth warmed people moved around more freely and began cross breeding and forming most of the other cultures alive today. 

You have a LOT of good ideas here, but you have a LOT of misinformation as well. Much of it has nothing to do with evolution. 

It's been pointed out that our sun will not become a supernova (too small). Do you have any evidence that humans originated in northern Africa? This article shows it's more likely we began in southern Africa. Also, all human skin plays a balancing game between vitamin D and folate, not just darker or lighter skin. Not sure where you're going to find evidence of your "hell below" concept, since there isn't any, and it's never good to mix the natural world with the supernatural. I agree that humanity needs more cooperation and less competition, and that more focus on long-term goals is needed, but I think there are so many of us that we can focus on more than just one thing. Also, be careful of TRUTH. It seems like an objective goal, but nothing is more subjective than what people think is TRUTH. It's a lie rather than any kind of truth, and you're better served looking for the best supported explanations for various phenomena.

[Chris Sawatsky]

On 11/3/2023 at 7:03 AM, exchemist said:

Why are you waffling about spirituality in a biology thread? 

Ever hear of RELATIVITY? The question was Does evolution have a direction? Has humanity not evolved spiritually? Do other life forms think about morals or Good and Bad? We don't live or evolve in a strictly physical way and I assumed most people can see how the Psychological, Physical and Spiritual realities we have lived and evolved in were related  i.e. All action is born in thought. 

 

 

On 11/3/2023 at 8:57 AM, Phi for All said:

You have a LOT of good ideas here, but you have a LOT of misinformation as well. Much of it has nothing to do with evolution. 

It's been pointed out that our sun will not become a supernova (too small). Do you have any evidence that humans originated in northern Africa? This article shows it's more likely we began in southern Africa. Also, all human skin plays a balancing game between vitamin D and folate, not just darker or lighter skin. Not sure where you're going to find evidence of your "hell below" concept, since there isn't any, and it's never good to mix the natural world with the supernatural. I agree that humanity needs more cooperation and less competition, and that more focus on long-term goals is needed, but I think there are so many of us that we can focus on more than just one thing. Also, be careful of TRUTH. It seems like an objective goal, but nothing is more subjective than what people think is TRUTH. It's a lie rather than any kind of truth, and you're better served looking for the best supported explanations for various phenomena.

Archeology as a whole is my evidence. Carbon dated elements relative to the human species. An explanation that includes ALL of humanity and doesn't depend on theories of Race much less superiority is the most likely explanation. Did you know that most of the worlds petrified wood is in Northern Africa? How about humanoid remains that are the same age and of the oldest discovered remnants of stages of human evolution before Homo Sapiens ? 

[Phi for All]

1 hour ago, Chris Sawatsky said:

Archeology as a whole is my evidence.

I'm not interested in wading through the whole discipline to find the part you're talking about. It would be great if you could be specific.

1 hour ago, Chris Sawatsky said:

Did you know that most of the worlds petrified wood is in Northern Africa?

And the correlation to humans is what?

1 hour ago, Chris Sawatsky said:

How about humanoid remains that are the same age and of the oldest discovered remnants of stages of human evolution before Homo Sapiens ? 

What about them? What's the point you're trying to make here?