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Alternatives to sports for enccouraging fitness


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So with the rise of "E-sports," people who tout sports over video games have shifted their argument from their previous "but sports are more normal" to their current "but sports are healthier."

 

But there's a tradeoff. Video games don't give you exercise, but they're also less likely to get you killed.

 

 

As such, that leaves the question. Why have sports in particular become the go-to standard for encouraging fitness? Parents drive their kids to sports practice, which burns more fossil fuels and fewer calories than if they rode their bicycles there. But then if they rode their bicycles there, they might be too tired to give it their all when they get there. Individuals drive to the gym, which in cities might be a case of their car being cleaner than the outdoor air, but this sort of thing happens in clean-air small-towns as well.

 

I keep hearing it's about teamwork, but aren't there other ways to encourage teamwork? Like, let's say, have students bicycle to and from school, and work as a team to figure out how to set up a tarp that will protect their bicycle paths from the rain and snow?

 

What are the supposed benefits of sports, and the supposed alternatives to it? As nostalgic as I am for cartoons and video games, I'm thinking that can't necessarily be the most constructive way for kids to spend their spare time either. (Putting aside that one could always watch cartoons on the treadmill, lame as that may sound.)

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Kids like competition. When I coached youth soccer it was near impossible to get the kids to run hard when the only reason to do so was to improve their running ability. But if I had two of them run at the same time and called a winner, they gave it their all.

It's the competition that gets kids playing, not the teamwork.

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Benefits of sports for kids is that it is usually a community driven event, all the parents come together sign their kids up and everyone uniting for a common cause to wanting their kids team to try their best and win against another. Sports allows kids to stay active, make friends, develop strong values like good sportsmanship and also just like I said before, brings everyone together. That's based on my experience as a kid who played sports for a club.

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  • 2 weeks later...
On 12/19/2020 at 8:24 AM, molbol2000 said:

Are you talking about just aerobic work without intensivety? This on the contrary kill us due to oxidental processes.

"Oxidental"?

 

I'm just spitballing possible alternatives here. I was thinking bicycling would be one such alternative. Chopping up firewood would be a more vigorous workout, especially if done to cool off while in an angry mood.

 

So... if competition is what kids going, why not replace schools' "bus stops" with "racing checkpoints" where students can gather at them and race to school, and/or race to them before cycling home?

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28 minutes ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

So... if competition is what kids going, why not replace schools' "bus stops" with "racing checkpoints" where students can gather at them and race to school, and/or race to them before cycling home?

Not all kids have bikes. Not all schools have buses. Not all neighborhoods are safe. Bikes cannot be used in all weather. Not all kids can ride bikes. Not all parents would let their childs participate. Not all neighborhoods have bike paths. 

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12 minutes ago, zapatos said:

Not all kids have bikes. Not all schools have buses. Not all neighborhoods are safe. Bikes cannot be used in all weather. Not all kids can ride bikes. Not all parents would let their childs participate. Not all neighborhoods have bike paths. 

Why not set up bike paths, teach kids how to ride these bikes, (and offer fun activities for those who've already demonstrated proficiency, like we do for doing well on math "pre-tests") set up weather resistant tarps and surveillance cameras along said bike paths, and give the death penalty to anyone caught on said surveillance camera attempting to abduct, molest, or otherwise severely harm any of these children? That would scare any would-be troublemaker out of trying, and give the parents reason to believe the risk is lower than that of, let's say, of a school bus getting T-boned at an intersection by a reckless driver. Or a child getting run over by a driver who ignored the school bus's stop sign.

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1 hour ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

Why not set up bike path

In Manhattan? In Montana where the school is 20 miles away?

1 hour ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

teach kids how to ride these bikes

Kids with disabilities?

1 hour ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

set up weather resistant tarps and surveillance cameras along said bike paths

Not cost effective, especially when compared to, say, organized sports. Perhaps after they finally pay for actual school supplies.

1 hour ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

and give the death penalty to anyone caught on said surveillance camera attempting to abduct, molest, or otherwise severely harm any of these children? That would scare any would-be troublemaker out of trying

I guess that is why there is no murder in places that have the death penalty for murder...

1 hour ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

and give the parents reason to believe the risk is lower than that of, let's say, of a school bus getting T-boned at an intersection by a reckless driver. Or a child getting run over by a driver who ignored the school bus's stop sign.

Do you have a citation for that claim or did you just make that up?

Edited by zapatos
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1 hour ago, zapatos said:

In Manhattan? In Montana where the school is 20 miles away?

Kids with disabilities?

Not cost effective, especially when compared to, say, organized sports. Perhaps after they finally pay for actual school supplies.

I guess that is why there is no murder in places that have the death penalty for murder...

Do you have a citation for that claim or did you just make that up?

1. If Manhattan doesn't have adequate bike paths for non-student commuters, they ought to fix that ASAP, if only for environmental reasons, let alone the risk peak oil hits before electric cars become affordable to the poor. As for Montana... perhaps splitting the difference, then? Are there perhaps cargo-train routes that could double as passenger-train routes, with bicycle racks kids coming home from school can put their bikes on, then it stops at various routes corresponding to various neighbourhoods, and smaller groups of students race to their respective equivalents of former bus stops?

 

2. Ah, neglected that consideration, fair enough. If this fails to replace buses, one could always fund vouchers for cab fares for those with good enough reasons to be exempt or something like that.

 

3. Tarps are a one-time investment. Paying someone to coach them is a continuous annual expense. And regarding point #4, aren't kids more often known to be molested by their baseball coach than by strangers they encounter on a bicycle path?

 

4. Aren't most of the states known for executions the (relatively) more rural states that can't cover every nook and cranny with surveillance as efficiently as New York? That sounds like it's basically daring criminals to tell themselves "I'll never get caught," even if that's what they all say. Executions can't be a substitute for surveillance, but that doesn't necessarily mean they can't supplement them in a manner for which the whole is worth more than the sum of its parts, if the cameras are there in plain enough sight that they cannot be denied by anyone short of the most willfully ignorant of criminals... who would probably drive past a school bus with its lights on if they thought they could get away with it too. And it's not clear how much longer rural America will last when the oil runs out. (Depends on how affordable electric cars become, I guess?)

 

5. This is based on the assumption that the deterrence referred to in #4 would eventually push it below the already established "background radiation" that is the risk of automobile accidents. An unfalsifiable assumption, to be fair, but most of the people calling it unfalsifiable invoke unfalsifiable assumptions about the motives of death penalty advocates (you are the first exception I have encountered) which establishes a sort of correlation between this complaint and a lack of concern for falsifiability, as though they come from the same source. (Again, yourself excepted.) If you don't mind my asking, what led you to side with those doubting the deterrence argument?

 

. . .

 

For what it's worth, the conclusion I'm increasingly coming to is "the bicycle option is looking more and more suitable to urban areas, and less and less suitable to rural and suburban ones." Especially in light of points 1 and 4. But that still leaves the question of why, at least in urban ones in particular, it's considered less suitable than sports.

Edited by ScienceNostalgia101
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3 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

If you don't mind my asking, what led you to side with those doubting the deterrence argument?

About 100 years of data.

Quote

Scientists agree, by an overwhelming majority, that the death penalty has no deterrent effect.  They felt the same way over ten years ago, and nothing has changed since then.  States without the death penalty continue to have significantly lower murder rates than those that retain capital punishment. 

https://www.amnestyusa.org/a-clear-scientific-consensus-that-the-death-penalty-does-not-deter/

3 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

If Manhattan doesn't have adequate bike paths for non-student commuters, they ought to fix that ASAP,

My opposition to your plan was less based on the number of bike paths in Manhattan and more on the unacceptable risk of having children race bicycles on the streets of Manhattan.

3 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

Tarps are a one-time investment.

Hmm. I put a heavy-duty tarp over some firewood outside. Lasted about three years. I'm not sure I would call the purchase of tarps a "one-time investment". You also failed to factor in the cost of cameras, recording devices, monitoring, maintenance, etc.

3 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

And regarding point #4, aren't kids more often known to be molested by their baseball coach than by strangers they encounter on a bicycle path?

I don't know. You should investigate that if you would like your proposal to be accepted.

3 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

And it's not clear how much longer rural America will last when the oil runs out.

I'm pretty sure rural America existed before oil even began to flow.

3 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

But that still leaves the question of why, at least in urban ones in particular, it's considered less suitable than sports.

Sports are fun. Riding your bike to school in the snow and rain is not.

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Sports are not necessarily about competition.
You can get exercise by hiking, running or working out.
I, myself, have never liked organized competitive sports.

I joined my first gym when I was 16, and am in reasonably good shape for my age.
I also remember being outside during all my evenings and Summers as a kid; you don't see that too much these days.

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26 minutes ago, zapatos said:

I put a heavy-duty tarp over some firewood outside. Lasted about three years. I'm not sure I would call the purchase of tarps a "one-time investment". You also failed to factor in the cost of cameras, recording devices, monitoring, maintenance, etc.

He also didn’t bother to consider that tarps aren’t enough when there’s a minus 20 windchill outside 

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39 minutes ago, MigL said:

Sports are not necessarily about competition.
You can get exercise by hiking, running or working out.

I'm  not sure many people consider hiking, running or working out to be sports.

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10 hours ago, MigL said:

Tell  it to bodybuilders/powerlifters, marathon runners or Olympic sprinters :) .

You mean those who do those things for competition? 😃

Perhaps I misunderstood you. When you mentioned those things originally you were talking about getting exercise by doing those things. That is what I don't think most people would consider sports.

While you may get five different answers from five different people on what "sport" is, I believe most will include the aspect of competition.

Football? All five will say yes.

Chess with your sister? Four of five will say no (if not all five).

Chess as part of the high school state finals? We'll get more of a mix.

Tennis? All five will say yes.

You may get a lot of aspects  that people associate with 'sport', but I'm guessing that "competition" is going to be the most common, probably followed by some kind of physical exertion.

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On other sides, back when I was more vocally opposed to mandatory phys. ed. in schools, I've been referred to as "an athlete even if I don't realize it" when mentioning cycling (which I did more for environmental reasons than health ones) as one of my hobbies.

 

I think when the case against the death penalty correlates with people hypocritical enough to complain about the "unfalsifiability" of deterrence, while jumping to unfalsifiable conclusions about the motives of its advocates, it establishes as plausible the possibility that those funding the experts are pandering to said hypocritical activists. Expert consensus is a good starting point, but it shouldn't be worshipped as absolute.

 

Wouldn't a more durable tarp be able to withstand the wind? Especially the kind that somehow makes it around the skyscrapers of lower Manhattan. (As for the cold and wind... if Winnipeggers can handle cycling in winters colder than Mars, I'm pretty sure New Yorkers can handle their relatively-milder winters.) Surveillance requires electricity, and maybe the occasional cleaning of the lens, but I would think it would otherwise be a "set it and forget it" sort of deal. Otherwise how long will London's take to pay for itself?

 

Rural America began before oil began to flow, but that was before the economy became more urbanized and the carbon-intensive way the USA distributes its food became rural America's continuing claim to fame. How much of a purpose will it have if an oil crash forces more energy-efficient ways to distribute food?

 

As for stats on abuse:

 

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/04/120413100854.htm

 

Anyway, if school sports are so "fun," why do people willingly select French classes over phys. ed. on their course selection sheet?

Edited by ScienceNostalgia101
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31 minutes ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

Anyway, if school sports are so "fun," why do people willingly select French classes over phys. ed. on their course selection sheet?

Non sequiter. I can't believe you are even suggesting that someone choosing French over physical education proves sports are not fun.

 

32 minutes ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

I think when the case against the death penalty correlates with people hypocritical enough to complain about the "unfalsifiability" of deterrence, while jumping to unfalsifiable conclusions about the motives of its advocates, it establishes as plausible the possibility that those funding the experts are pandering to said hypocritical activists.

You've brought this up twice now. No one here is doing that. I'm not even sure what you are trying to convey with your "unfalsifiability of deterrence" complaint.

 

35 minutes ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

Wouldn't a more durable tarp be able to withstand the wind?

iNow's point was that you cannot just have a tarp over your head to prevent ill effects of windchill. You basically need to build a tunnel out of your tarps.

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As I've mentioned before, Winnipeggers manage to bicycle during wind chill far worse than Manhattan's. It's all a matter of learning to dress for the cold.

 

Of course, this doesn't necessarily necessitate doing away with school buses altogether; just using them more sparingly and having school-bus-days just as one has snow days.

 

French is one of those courses students complain about a lot, and in a world with translation apps it's not taken out of "necessity." That suggests that a lot of students hate physical education enough that even French is better in their eyes.

 

When I bring up the unfalsifiability of deterrence, I am referring to the tarnished credibility of those who invoke it. They do not value falsifiability as much as they claim or they wouldn't be (for the most part) making unfalsifiable claims about how "bloodthirsty" or whatever the average death penalty advocate "really" is. That suggests the case against the death penalty is steeped in hypocrisy, reflecting poorly on said opposition, (they don't propose boycotting China over its travelling execution vans either) even if a few of the individuals against it might happen to be honest people.

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27 minutes ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

When I bring up the unfalsifiability of deterrence, I am referring to the tarnished credibility of those who invoke it. They do not value falsifiability as much as they claim or they wouldn't be (for the most part) making unfalsifiable claims about how "bloodthirsty" or whatever the average death penalty advocate "really" is. That suggests the case against the death penalty is steeped in hypocrisy, reflecting poorly on said opposition, (they don't propose boycotting China over its travelling execution vans either) even if a few of the individuals against it might happen to be honest people.

I still don't know what in the hell you are talking about. This thread is about fitness in school. Who is talking about the death penalty?

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Posted (edited)

I was proposing a means to make bicycling to and/or from school safe even in unsafe neighbourhoods. I brought up that if these neighbourhoods are infested enough with people reprehensible enough to abduct or severely harm a child who was trying to do right by the environment we could up the ante to combat this, and in the process make the neighbourhoods safer by ridding the world of such people.

 

We can't just retreat to our cars because the streets are unsafe. Driving is unsafe anyway. Make the streets safe. Nothing less will do.

Edited by ScienceNostalgia101
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28 minutes ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

We can't just retreat to our cars because the streets are unsafe. Driving is unsafe anyway. Make the streets safe. Nothing less will do.

Do you ever investigate anything or do you just make up whatever you like?

Quote

The report by the Surface Transportation Policy Project, says the results show that walking is more dangerous in sprawling communities designed for the automobile. "Mean Streets 2000" analyzes federal safety and spending databases and finds that per mile traveled, walking is 36 times more dangerous than driving. 

https://www.planetizen.com/node/1224

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Your own source says "in sprawling communities designed for the automobile." In other words, if we could significantly cut down on automobile use, it would be safer for cyclists, pedestrians, and motorists alike by having fewer vehicles on the road. The only question is how to get there in a way with the minimal amount of harm to pedestrians and cyclists. I would think knowing that one's son or daughter is out there would incentivize voters to push for more protected bike paths and a crackdown on reckless drivers, wouldn't you say?

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5 hours ago, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

I would think knowing that one's son or daughter is out there would incentivize voters to push for more protected bike paths and a crackdown on reckless drivers, wouldn't you say?

It's your proposal. Do some research and find out.

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On 1/1/2021 at 12:35 AM, ScienceNostalgia101 said:

I was proposing a means to make bicycling to and/or from school safe even in unsafe neighbourhoods. I brought up that if these neighbourhoods are infested enough with people reprehensible enough to abduct or severely harm a child who was trying to do right by the environment we could up the ante to combat this, and in the process make the neighbourhoods safer by ridding the world of such people.

"Stand ye calm and resolute,
Like a forest close and mute,
With folded arms and looks which are
Weapons of unvanquished war.

And if then the tyrants dare,
Let them ride among you there;
Slash, and stab, and maim and hew;
What they like, that let them do.

With folded arms and steady eyes,
And little fear, and less surprise,
Look upon them as they slay,
Till their rage has died away:

Then they will return with shame,
To the place from which they came,
And the blood thus shed will speak
In hot blushes on their cheek:

Rise, like lions after slumber
In unvanquishable number!
Shake your chains to earth like dew
Which in sleep had fallen on you:
Ye are many—they are few!" - P B Shelley 

Or, "the meek shall inherit the earth" - Anon

 

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