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geordief

Subjective time.

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Is subjective time closely related to objective time ?

 

Suppose a sentient being is to analyse his or her faculty of measuring or understanding time as it applies to his perception of it ,how would this analysis proceed?

Would one be obliged to make reference to the scientific  definition of time to better understand  their subjective  experience ?

Does a sentient being require the appreciation of a regular repetition of events  to make sense of the subjective passage of time?

 

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19 minutes ago, geordief said:

Is subjective time closely related to objective time ?

 

Suppose a sentient being is to analyse his or her faculty of measuring or understanding time as it applies to his perception of it ,how would this analysis proceed?

Would one be obliged to make reference to the scientific  definition of time to better understand  their subjective  experience ?

So you mean perception of time, when you say subjective time? Because as far as I am concerned, anything you measure against a standard is objective, full stop. 

Something that lasts one minute but seems like it lasts five still only lasted one minute. 

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Does a sentient being require the appreciation of a regular repetition of events  to make sense of the subjective passage of time?

How would we know? Do we have any data on this? We have humans, most of whom are able to appreciate regularly repeated events. Perhaps you should look up studies of blind people and their time perception 

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1 hour ago, swansont said:

How would we know? Do we have any data on this? We have humans, most of whom are able to appreciate regularly repeated events. Perhaps you should look up studies of blind people and their time perception 

This is a good suggestion.

I'd add to Swansonts points by directing you to research the psychology of time perception. 

There are anecdotal experiences claimed by some who say they get periods where it feels like everything around them is moving super fast. Some drugs can also produce a feeling that everything has slowed down.

These experiences are extremely difficult to study however and it is obviously impossible for time to be speeding up for one person while everyone else around them is experiencing the perception of time normally... I mean, unless you're moving at the speed of light I guess or if you're observing something being sucked into a black hole. None of this actually changes the passage of time. It doesn't even make sense to say "This minute was twice as long as the last" all that would mean is 3 minutes have passed. Yet the clock says only two have actually passed. It might look as if an object is slowing down as it approaches a black hole, to the object in question time is still flowing and they will be across the event horizon long before you actually witness this happening. 

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This thread reminds me of the "return journey effect" which has continued to confuse me since my childhood trips to the seaside.

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We’ve all had the experience of going on a road trip and feeling like we’re never going to get to our destination. And yet, the return trip home seems so much shorter. If you took the same roads and encountered similar traffic conditions, then the time should be about the same. But with the return trip effect, the journey home feels shorter than the outward trip.

The return trip effect has to do with the subjective experience of time. At the biological level, we have a number of internal clocks that are relatively precise. Our hearts beat to a steady rhythm, and our bodies go through daily cycles. And yet at the psychological level, our perception of time is imprecise and greatly influenced by our mood. We’ve all had situations where time seemingly stood still and others when it just flew by. But our ability to judge the actual passage of time is quite limited.

[...]

One explanation for the return trip effect involves familiarity. 

[...]

An alternative explanation is that return trip effect results from a violation of expectations. 

[...]

 

 

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In a recent article in the journal Social Psychology and Personality Science*, University of Miami psychologist Zoey Chen and colleagues offer a novel explanation for the return trip effect, which they test in a series of experiments.

[...]

Chen and colleagues propose a novel explanation for the return trip effect which they call the anticipation account. The researchers start with the observation that the two legs of the journey typically involve different levels of anticipation. You are certainly more excited about going on your vacation at the beach than you are about your return to your humdrum life afterward. And even during your morning commute, you’re usually thinking ahead to all the things you have to do when you get there.

[...]

*The full article is behind a paywall at:

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/1948550620916054

Source:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/202005/why-does-it-take-longer-go-there-come-back?amp

Edited by Dord

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41 minutes ago, Dord said:

This thread reminds me of the "return journey effect" which has continued to confuse me since my childhood trips to the seaside.

 

Source:
https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/talking-apes/202005/why-does-it-take-longer-go-there-come-back?amp

A good point. Maybe OP should forward their questions on to the psychology section. 

Philosophy of Time isn't really an area of discussion where we look at the subjective perception of the passage of Time. 

That being said; OP may enjoy reading about A and B theories of time. I'm partial to the quantum block A theory myself.

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13 hours ago, geordief said:

Is subjective time closely related to objective time ?

No. The period between when you go to sleep at night, and when you wake up in the morning, subjectively feels like only a moment has passed, whereas the clock on your bedside table will have recorded (e.g.) 8 hours.

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4 hours ago, Markus Hanke said:

No. The period between when you go to sleep at night, and when you wake up in the morning, subjectively feels like only a moment has passed, whereas the clock on your bedside table will have recorded (e.g.) 8 hours.

Suppose we make a slow motion video recording of a series of events  and play them back,...

 

We will see a representation of those events (faithful in its own "frame of reference")

 

Now suppose some of those data points are lost  through the inevitable march of time where everything changes in due course.

 

Now ,if we replay the movie it will appear to be sped up.

 

Is this analogous to the way you say  "only a moment has passed"?

 

In your example ,might it be that  the "data points" are simply missing   and that ,if we were aware (as perhaps part of our body/mind is) of the ongoing sequence of events within its remit then more than a moment would appear to have passed and perhaps even a longer time than might appear to the wakener as he observed his or her surroundings and compared  their apparent evolution with what he had experienced subjectively?

 

It seems to me that ,even in a deep coma ,the person is likely aware at some level of events gong on in his or her body only to forget them once they are awake. 

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19 minutes ago, geordief said:

Suppose we make a slow motion video recording of a series of events  and play them back,...

Then subjectively, time would slow down... 😉

Edited by dimreepr

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16 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

Then subjectively, time would slow down... 😉

No ,subjectively time would be unchanged ;one would be looking at a recording of a  series of events in their own "frame of reference" .

 

If the viewer of the movie looked at his fellow viewers (or any ongoing events in his or her surroundings) he would notice they were also going on at "one second per second".

 

If he reset his attention to the movie he would again be looking at a series of events transpiring at "one second per second".

 

There is no need to compare the slow motion movie to the events it recorded initially (I was not doing that ,anyway. It is not what I was getting at)

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1 minute ago, geordief said:

No ,subjectively time would be unchanged ;one would be looking at a recording of a  series of events in their own "frame of reference" 

OK, we're ignoring the sarcasm... 🙄

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4 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

OK, we're ignoring the sarcasm... 🙄

Don't understand your post ,but I can live with that.

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Just now, geordief said:

Don't understand your post ,but I can live with that.

You don't understand your premise; MEH, I can live with that...

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19 hours ago, geordief said:

Is subjective time closely related to objective time ?

No.  I can't even imagine how you could seriously ask that question. 

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19 minutes ago, Bufofrog said:

No.  I can't even imagine how you could seriously ask that question. 

My idea  is that our idea of "subjective" time is founded in objective time,

 

That our idea of time is occasioned by the mechanical (or physical) workings of the body and brain.

hold on still typing :) (sometimes the post goes through when you press the return key before you are finished the post...)

 

I don't see a disconnect between the "time is what clocks measure" definition and my hypothetical description  "subjective time is what the body measures"

 

The two are linked so far as I  can see,

 

 

Edited by geordief

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2 minutes ago, geordief said:

hold on still typing..:)

I'm waiting... 😉

24 minutes ago, geordief said:

The two are linked so far as I  can see,

How long have you been a robber?

4' 10"...

39 minutes ago, geordief said:

The two are linked so far as I  can see,

How long have you been a robber?

4' 10"...

You say...

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33 minutes ago, geordief said:

My idea  is that our idea of "subjective" time is founded in objective time,

Of course it is.  I didn't realize that something so trivially obvious was your point.

So you you think that somebody's guess at how far a random star is from earth is closely related to the the actual distance?  The guess is founded in distance...

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15 minutes ago, Bufofrog said:

Of course it is.  I didn't realize that something so trivially obvious was your point.

So you you think that somebody's guess at how far a random star is from earth is closely related to the the actual distance?  The guess is founded in distance...

My "point " in the OP  was actually couched as a question.

Thank you for your answer.

 

It was not trivially obvious to me -which is why I asked.

 

I am glad to have received some corroboration for the  inclination of my thought  even if I may have come across as the dullard I am (not sure if that was your subtext or whether I should just put on the cap that fits)

 

btw on reflection ,perhaps there are quite likely  those who would disagree with us both and attribute  absolute subjective values to phenomena. As I have little philosophical education ,that is a bit of a guess,.

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Perception of time is often compared to the objective standard, but not always. You can compare two subjective estimates. (e.g. “this week just dragged along, but last week flew by”)

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