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Moontanman

Younger Dryas Impact

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Is anyone paying any attention to any of the hypothesis surrounding the Younger Dryas Impact? For a long time this subject was being used to explain everything from the fall of an ancient civilization to the JFK assassination, possibly the death of elvis as well. But lately some detailed explanations of many papers being used to explain things like the Carolina Bays and the scablands out west not to mention various flood myths and myths of earlier civilizations of humans here on earth which fell when the impact caused a scouring of coast lines all over the planet to raising sea levels as much as 400 feet.   

For awhile it was barely interesting but an actual scientist, who is of course being called nuts by mainstream science, but it appears some of his stuff is difficult to refute. If not for Martin Sweatman being a well thought of scientist in his field which is unfortunately not archeology he might get more respect for his views on this impact catastrophe.  

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2 hours ago, Moontanman said:

Is anyone paying any attention to any of the hypothesis surrounding the Younger Dryas Impact?

I have not read and assimilated enough material on the subject to have a properly informed opinion, but I do find it interesting. Well the Younger Dryas is interesting in and of itself, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a bolide impact. I am not convinced that the Carolina bays are evidence of such - in fact I think that been adequate;y disposed of. (Nor was the impact involved in the death of Elvis, for the obvious reason that he is alive and well and living in Bogota!)

Your thoughts?

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15 hours ago, Area54 said:

I have not read and assimilated enough material on the subject to have a properly informed opinion, but I do find it interesting. Well the Younger Dryas is interesting in and of itself, and I wouldn't rule out the possibility of a bolide impact. I am not convinced that the Carolina bays are evidence of such - in fact I think that been adequate;y disposed of. (Nor was the impact involved in the death of Elvis, for the obvious reason that he is alive and well and living in Bogota!)

Your thoughts?

I've been following the idea of a rapid sea level rise around 12,000 years ago for many years. Most of the "evidence" appears to be hidden in deep or turbid water along coastal areas near river mouths. I think there might be three areas where some difficult exploration can be done but so far no smoking gun. The idea is that something caused a huge sea level rise and possibly extremely high coastal waves that trashed what was a globally linked world wide civilization. 

A great many people take this and run into weirdness like ancient aliens, atlantis and a civilization more advanced than our own. This is just nonsensical for many reasons but a ocean going trade oriented power something like the phoenicians but maybe a bit more widespread could have connected a net work of river mouth and coastal cities at least across the atlantic basin if not the pacific ands indian oceans as well. 

A sudden rise in sea level from a violent event could trash such a civilization but the cause of such and event much less remnants of those are highly speculative. However this Younger Dryas event could at least be a possible cause. The reason for a lack of buildings might be reasonably explained if these people worked in wood instead of stone like the Egyptians and other later more inland orientated peoples... 

Sadly I have to admit that very little real investigation into this is being done and what is either too difficult to pursue with our own underwater archeology or is being written off as impossible and nothing but pseudoscience. 

The guy I mentioned got my attention a while back but he has an agenda and seems to be trying to steer the evidence toward his own conclusions... 

Everyone knows Elvis is retired to Hawaii....  

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Don't really know much about the event.
Always thought it was a sudden return to ice age temperatures after glaciers had been retreating for several thousand years.
The usual explanation is the start of a warming trend after the peak of the last glaciation about 20 000 years ago, which resulted in ice covering retreating from the Ohio valley to Northern Canada, and from central Europe to the Scandinavian countries.
The resultant rise in sea levels submerged the Siberia-Alaska land bridge and the sudden influx of fresh water disrupted mid-oceanic flows which bring warm equatorial waters north; the temperature drop which followed, about 12 000 years ago is what I know as the Younger Dryas event.

Maybe you could explain what effects have been attributed to this 'cause', and how aliens and Elvis fit into all this. :)

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I think the scientific general consensus is that Sweatman is smart enough to be able to develop excellent pseudoscientific theories which he turns into best sellers. For the layman his ideas seem sound, but to the scientist who actually studies what Sweatman is writing about it is all nonsense. 

Sweatman develops a plausible scenario (I purposely did not use the word "theory") but is not interested in investigating any of the obvious next steps to support his conjectures. He's not a scientist in these cases; he's a writer. Therefore once the book is done, from his perspective there is nothing left to do.

Sweatman is similar to Asimov in that he uses his scientific knowledge to be able to write believable fiction.

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Sea levels rise in one place and fall in another, due to tectonic activity and evaporation.
This is measurable today (and being measured) in Alaska.

It is also important to distinguish between local sea level rise/fall and land level subsidence/rise

Unless there is something to provide the additional water for the rise, the levels fall back again fairly smartly.
Such additional water is provided for instance by the melting of land borne ice.

In the time periods mentioned, divers are beginning to do submarine archaeology on a now submerged land, that existed then in what is now the middle of the North Sea.
It was called Doggerland.

But it was no advanced civilisation.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=NRlhX5ysLqmNlwTzlo3YAQ&q=doggerland&oq=doggerland&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCAAQsQMyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADIECAAQCjICCAAyAggAMgIIADoICAAQsQMQgwE6CAguELEDEIMBOgsILhCxAxDHARCjAjoOCC4QsQMQxwEQowIQkwI6BQguELEDOgIILjoLCC4QsQMQxwEQrwE6CAguELEDEJMCOgUIABCSAzoICC4QxwEQrwFQwA1YzB5g-iBoAHAAeAGAAegEiAGOGpIBCzAuMi4xLjUuMS4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjcmrLX9evrAhWpxoUKHXNLAxsQ4dUDCAg&uact=5

 

A good source of reliable data about (past, present and future) coastal civilisations and their fates is sypplied by the Californian Professor Brian Fagan in his book
The Attacking Ocean.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/the-attacking-ocean-9781608196920/

10,000 years further back an ice age prevailed and sea levels were consequently lower.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54160645

I would very expect strong evidence for a sustained level rise, especially in the wider and deeper ocean as opposed to a shallow sea like the North Sea or the Behring Sea.

And I haven't seen it so far in this thread.

Edited by studiot

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The only case that I know of anything in the way of a civilization appearing as a direct consequence of the Younger Dryas is the Natufian culture. The Natufians were hunter-gatherers, but kept dogs and made sickles with which to harvest wild grain. They seasonally settled places were they kept some of their heavier proto-agricultural hardware --huge pestles and mortars-- and made repairs on their seasonal homes. When the glaciation hit hard, they seem to have settled permanently near the water and brought stores of grain with them. It is known that when people settles society becomes hierarchical. Some chieftains may even develop a funny orange toupee-like hairstyle. ;)

Everything that we associate to the word "civilization" (monumental architecture, overlordship) I think came a bit later. Although an interesting precursor of civilization that seems to overlap with the Younger Dryas is Gobekli Tepe. Interesting: monumental architecture from a hunter-gatherer society.

I wasn't aware of the impact theory, although I tend to think that there is always a temptation to find one cause for changes that probably are more complex.

I have never considered the possibility that Elvis was a Natufian or that the Natufians assassinated JFK. 🤣

This is a very interesting topic.

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19 hours ago, studiot said:

Sea levels rise in one place and fall in another, due to tectonic activity and evaporation.
This is measurable today (and being measured) in Alaska.

It is also important to distinguish between local sea level rise/fall and land level subsidence/rise

Unless there is something to provide the additional water for the rise, the levels fall back again fairly smartly.
Such additional water is provided for instance by the melting of land borne ice.

In the time periods mentioned, divers are beginning to do submarine archaeology on a now submerged land, that existed then in what is now the middle of the North Sea.
It was called Doggerland.

But it was no advanced civilisation.

https://www.google.co.uk/search?source=hp&ei=NRlhX5ysLqmNlwTzlo3YAQ&q=doggerland&oq=doggerland&gs_lcp=CgZwc3ktYWIQAzIFCAAQsQMyAggAMgIIADICCAAyAggAMgIIADIECAAQCjICCAAyAggAMgIIADoICAAQsQMQgwE6CAguELEDEIMBOgsILhCxAxDHARCjAjoOCC4QsQMQxwEQowIQkwI6BQguELEDOgIILjoLCC4QsQMQxwEQrwE6CAguELEDEJMCOgUIABCSAzoICC4QxwEQrwFQwA1YzB5g-iBoAHAAeAGAAegEiAGOGpIBCzAuMi4xLjUuMS4xmAEAoAEBqgEHZ3dzLXdpeg&sclient=psy-ab&ved=0ahUKEwjcmrLX9evrAhWpxoUKHXNLAxsQ4dUDCAg&uact=5

 

A good source of reliable data about (past, present and future) coastal civilisations and their fates is sypplied by the Californian Professor Brian Fagan in his book
The Attacking Ocean.

https://www.bloomsbury.com/us/the-attacking-ocean-9781608196920/

10,000 years further back an ice age prevailed and sea levels were consequently lower.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-54160645

I would very expect strong evidence for a sustained level rise, especially in the wider and deeper ocean as opposed to a shallow sea like the North Sea or the Behring Sea.

And I haven't seen it so far in this thread.

I was going to post a link to Sweatman's video but I looked at his list and there are more than twenty videos on this subject just by Sweatman. 

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