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Ten oz

Neil DeGrasse Tyson Misconduct

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16 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

 My point here was just that I think Tyson's behavior with his assistant was out of line with what would be tolerated among his peers in a ademia. 

Maybe that's part of the problem. The AMNH is probably pretty well aligned with academia. They have postdocs, grad students, and researchers, to whom they refer as tenured faculty, along with CUNY research faculty.

So maybe the academia baggage (with regard to this situation) is already there.

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53 minutes ago, swansont said:

Maybe that's part of the problem. The AMNH is probably pretty well aligned with academia. They have postdocs, grad students, and researchers, to whom they refer as tenured faculty, along with CUNY research faculty.

So maybe the academia baggage (with regard to this situation) is already there.

Partially. There is a slow rethinking going on in academia. While there have been attempts of rule of conducts in universities, academics tend to be on non-conformist side of things. But that has also resulted in quite a number of issues at universities which, especially with the age and power profile, can be highly problematic. Traditionally that was kept more or less under wraps but I do see a change coming.  To put it bluntly the rule until recent was basically, don't, but if you do don't let anybody know. Now, folks are more willing to speak out which is amplified for academics you have a high public profile.

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36 minutes ago, CharonY said:

Partially. There is a slow rethinking going on in academia. While there have been attempts of rule of conducts in universities, academics tend to be on non-conformist side of things. But that has also resulted in quite a number of issues at universities which, especially with the age and power profile, can be highly problematic. Traditionally that was kept more or less under wraps but I do see a change coming.  To put it bluntly the rule until recent was basically, don't, but if you do don't let anybody know. Now, folks are more willing to speak out which is amplified for academics you have a high public profile.

There have been recent instances where it's clear that academic institutions are still often more interested in covering up these problems than disciplining the perpetrators, especially when the perps are senior faculty. But I think they are finding that the embarrassment of being eventually found out is quite damaging, too, and maybe that will motivate improvements in transparency and responsibility.

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1 hour ago, swansont said:

There have been recent instances where it's clear that academic institutions are still often more interested in covering up these problems than disciplining the perpetrators, especially when the perps are senior faculty. But I think they are finding that the embarrassment of being eventually found out is quite damaging, too, and maybe that will motivate improvements in transparency and responsibility.

I sure hope so and I do feel that there is a shift in attitude, largely carried by female faculty that will over time diminish the traditional cavalier attitude to these issues.

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4 hours ago, swansont said:

Maybe that's part of the problem. The AMNH is probably pretty well aligned with academia. They have postdocs, grad students, and researchers, to whom they refer as tenured faculty, along with CUNY research faculty.

So maybe the academia baggage (with regard to this situation) is already there.

I interviewed for a post-doc position there. They are indeed many other academic institutions doing basic research.

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I always put myself in the other persons shoes. I am 6 years older than my wife (she says 7, which is totally wrong, as we met slightly over a month after her 24th birthday, and I was 30, and would not turn 31 for almost a full month). We met on a blind date so no PC concerns I know of at this time.

But I always ask myself...what if we had met and I was subordinate to her, or she to me? What kind of perpetrator might I, or (I would hope) she, have been?

Edited by J.C.MacSwell

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24 minutes ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

But I always ask myself...what if we had met and I was subordinate to her, or she to me? What kind of perpetrator might I, or (I would hope) she, have been?

Yet that isn't how you two met. You two knowingly agreed to a date. The what if game can be played in any number of directions. What if you were both born in Saudi Arabia, what if you were both women, what if she was a cop and you robber, etc, etc, etc. 

My parents met at work. They both essentially had the same job in the 70's. My father switched shifts prior to asking my mom on a date. After switching shift they were never at work at the same time. Once they were dating my father transferred to a different office in another city. That was 4 decades ago yet they had enough sense to not just carry on together at work. 

On more general note Tyson isn't claiming to have dated, attempted to date, or even flirted with his assistant. It provides Tyson a defense he isn't even making for himself to imply it would be okay had he been making a move on his assistant. 

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7 minutes ago, Ten oz said:

Yet that isn't how you two met. You two knowingly agreed to a date. The what if game can be played in any number of directions. What if you were both born in Saudi Arabia, what if you were both women, what if she was a cop and you robber, etc, etc, etc. 

My parents met at work. They both essentially had the same job in the 70's. My father switched shifts prior to asking my mom on a date. After switching shift they were never at work at the same time. Once they were dating my father transferred to a different office in another city. That was 4 decades ago yet they had enough sense to not just carry on together at work. 

On more general note Tyson isn't claiming to have dated, attempted to date, or even flirted with his assistant. It provides Tyson a defense he isn't even making for himself to imply it would be okay had he been making a move on his assistant. 

I agree he doesn't want to make that defence, whether true or not...he is in fact married. He's made that commitment...but not to us.

Your Dad sounds like a pretty stand up guy. The World needs more like him.

Edited by J.C.MacSwell

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4 hours ago, J.C.MacSwell said:

I always put myself in the other persons shoes. I am 6 years older than my wife (she says 7, which is totally wrong, as we met slightly over a month after her 24th birthday, and I was 30, and would not turn 31 for almost a full month). We met on a blind date so no PC concerns I know of at this time.

But I always ask myself...what if we had met and I was subordinate to her, or she to me? What kind of perpetrator might I, or (I would hope) she, have been?

LOL! My wife never lets me forget I'm older than she is. Even though it is only by 2 months. I always remind her that she is catching up (when she was two months old I was twice as old as her) to which she responds that I'll always be older.

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