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Why do people so frequently tie a creator to religion?


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2 minutes ago, Strange said:

Quite. Like everything else you say, it is a figment of your imagination. So it isn’t the evidence you were asked for. 

Ahem:

https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/~loeb/sciam3.pdf

Its already starting strange...

CP is one of those things that is so sacred its not even on the table to be looked at, even if that is the place science took a wrong turn (which is my opinion).

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I already explained why i am not going to post all the specifics in this thread, its too big for that. It took me 2+ years to come to the conclusion i have.

Then there is no conversation is there...  you can't just state "Marsians did it" or "I can fly with the power of my mind" without presenting some kind of evidence - especially here on a science site.

That is simply a failure of the education system,  as you have not been taught the true history cosmology far enough to understand what i am talking about. You took everything that was told to you for

10 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

I think the debate would look something like this:

"well crap space is definitely not as homogenous as first expected"

"what do we do bob"

"well we cant go back on the copernican principle thats for sure"

"why not bob"

"that would mean geocentrism could make a return to popularity"

"why is that bad bob?"

"because fred, if we arent random its possible were in a special place, and you know what that means"

"oh i see, well cant we just get rid of the big bang bob"?

"thats what were working on now fred"

 

These are discussions that are happening today, bob and fred arent real people btw :)

 

By what they are saying it is safe to assume that they are completely clueless. 

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On 2/10/2018 at 2:12 PM, koti said:

Earth is not in the center of the observable universe, amongst others WMAP project gave us evidence for this, we are sure where we are and it is not the center of the universe.

Sorry koti, just saw this. By definition, you (the observer) are  at the center of your observable universe so I guess Earth kinda is in the center of the Observable Universe as we know it.

Of course not the actual universe.

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26 minutes ago, Silvestru said:

Sorry koti, just saw this. By definition, you (the observer) are  at the center of your observable universe so I guess Earth kinda is in the center of the Observable Universe as we know it.

Of course not the actual universe.

Im sory but no. Earth is the 3rd planet from the sun in our solar system which is placed on the edge of the milky way galaxy which is not in the center ot the universe. Unless you want to state that every point in space is at the center of the universe this is not true.

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42 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

1. No, that is not where your "conversation" came from, so I still think you made it up.

2. That article is about inflation; I struggle to see the relevance to either a creator or the Copernican principle. Perhaps you could explain. why you think it is.

3. It is about a widely accepted idea being discussed and challenged by scientists, which rather goes against your religious belief that this doesn't happen.

Look up the Copernican principle on Wikipedia. It points out that (a) it is a "working assumption" (which means it very much not the same as The Truth) and (b) it has been tested and there are suggestions of other ways of testing it. Why would people be testing an idea if they were so "scared" it might turn out to be wrong.If scientists found evidence that the universe was created or that the Earth is at some special place, then the overall reaction would be "Wow!" (and Nobel Prizes all round).

Basically, it looks like you are trying to invent some sort of martyrdom to make your religion more authentic sounding. No one is buying into  your faith. You need to try harder. Or stick to science.

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2 minutes ago, Strange said:

1. No, that is not where your "conversation" came from, so I still think you made it up.

2. That article is about inflation; I struggle to see the relevance to either a creator or the Copernican principle. Perhaps you could explain. why you think it is.

3. It is about a widely accepted idea being discussed and challenged by scientists, which rather goes against your religious belief that this doesn't happen.

Look up the Copernican principle on Wikipedia. It points out that (a) it is a "working assumption" (which means it very much not the same as The Truth) and (b) it has been tested and there are suggestions of other ways of testing it. Why would people be testing an idea if they were so "scared" it might turn out to be wrong.If scientists found evidence that the universe was created or that the Earth is at some special place, then the overall reaction would be "Wow!" (and Nobel Prizes all round).

Basically, it looks like you are trying to invent some sort of martyrdom to make your religion more authentic sounding. No one is buying into  your faith. You need to try harder. Or stick to science.

To me the evidence is already there to be honest. But first science would rather chop at the big bang and what kind of variations they can come up with before messing with the CP, which is a mistake imo.

You keep thinking i am some sort of religous person, i came to this conclusion based on what we see in the sky and earths bewildering history. Not one ounce of "evidence" from the bible or other religious text has me convinced we were created.

You are like, the troll of the century actually. 

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15 minutes ago, koti said:

Im sory but no. Earth is the 3rd planet from the sun in our solar system which is placed on the edge of the milky way galaxy which is not in the center ot the universe. Unless you want to state that every point in space is at the center of the universe this is not true.

Maybe you are confusing Universe with Observable universe. That's why I underlined it. Earth is in the center of Earth's Observable Universe.

Maybe someone else would like to confirm/dispute this argument.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Observable_universe

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1 minute ago, Scotty99 said:

 

You are like, the troll of the century actually. 

You really should start backing up your nonsense with evidence. While at it, you might also learn some respect when addressing members of this forum. 

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Quote

 

  On 2/10/2018 at 2:12 PM, koti said:

Earth is not in the center of the observable universe, amongst others WMAP project gave us evidence for this, we are sure where we are and it is not the center of the universe.

 

Re-adding the initial comment that sparked my attention.

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4 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

To me the evidence is already there to be honest.

But that is because you are blinded by your religion.

4 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

You keep thinking i am some sort of religous person,

Because you base your opinions on your personal beliefs and not objective evidence.

1 minute ago, Silvestru said:

Maybe you are confusing Universe with Observable universe. That's why I underlined it. Earth is in the center of Earth's Observable Universe.

Maybe someone else would like to confirm/dispute this argument.

Yes. You are right. 

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3 minutes ago, Silvestru said:
 

Re-adding the initial comment that sparked my attention.

My mistake, good catch Silvestru. In the same sentence Im using both "observable universe" and "universe"  which is obviously not the same thing.

Edited by koti
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4 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

I already explained why i am not going to post all the specifics in this thread, its too big for that. It took me 2+ years to come to the conclusion i have.

Then there is no conversation is there...  you can't just state "Marsians did it" or "I can fly with the power of my mind" without presenting some kind of evidence - especially here on a science site. Present your evidence or get off of the stage!   Boooo!

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9 minutes ago, DrP said:

Then there is no conversation is there...  you can't just state "Marsians did it" or "I can fly with the power of my mind" without presenting some kind of evidence - especially here on a science site. Present your evidence or get off of the stage!   Boooo!

Again, i feel science took a wrong turn at the CP.......what more else do i have to say besides that? Surely you guys are bright enough to deduce some of the bullet points that would be inferred here.

Edit:

Here is the problem with scientific thinking minds, and why we could never see eye to eye. 

 

You dont care if you are right, as that isnt the goal of science. 

I put a challenge to myself two years ago to see how close to right i could get, and this is my best guess.

Edited by Scotty99
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2 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

Again, i feel science took a wrong turn at the CP.......what more else do i have to say besides that? Surely you guys are bright enough to deduce some of the bullet points that would be inferred here.

What you feel is irrelevant in this case. You keep on telling us that we should trust you and that you feel that science took a wrong turn and now you tell us to deduce things from your utter nonsense which you insist you have data/evidence on but refuse to give it. That is not how we roll here buddy. 

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1 minute ago, koti said:

What you feel is irrelevant in this case. You keep on telling us that we should trust you and that you feel that science took a wrong turn and now you tell us to deduce things from your utter nonsense which you insist you have data/evidence on but refuse to give it. That is not how we roll here buddy. 

That is simply a failure of the education system,  as you have not been taught the true history cosmology far enough to understand what i am talking about. You took everything that was told to you for face value, i went the other direction and found some very interesting problems.

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9 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

Again, i feel science took a wrong turn at the CP.......what more else do i have to say besides that?

Nobody cares about your feelings or beliefs. If you want people to take you seriously, you need to present some evidence. You are unable to do that and so your beliefs can be dismissed as baseless.

 

12 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

Here is the problem with scientific thinking minds, and why we could never see eye to eye. 

You dont care if you are right, as that isnt the goal of science. 

I put a challenge to myself two years ago to see how close to right i could get, and this is my best guess.

That is not a problem with scientific thinking (after all, it has been shown to work).

It is a problem with you (and other religious people) who think their guesses are as valid as objective evidence.

Hint: they aren't.

3 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

That is simply a failure of the education system,  as you have not been taught the true history cosmology far enough to understand what i am talking about.

How do you know that? You are going from making up fairy stories to insulting people. Not a good move.

4 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

You took everything that was told to you for face value, i went the other direction and found some very interesting problems.

You mean you decided to ignore what people have learned from science and make stuff up instead.

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1 minute ago, Strange said:

Nobody cares about your feelings or beliefs. If you want people to take you seriously, you need to present some evidence. You are unable to do that and so your beliefs can be dismissed as baseless.

 

That is not a problem with scientific thinking (after all, it has been shown to work).

It is a problem with you (and other religious people) who think their guesses are as valid as objective evidence.

Hint: they aren't.

But im using science and cosmology as the basis of my evidence? If it wasnt for the things ive found in the past two years about the universe i likely would continue to be a nonbeliever as i once was, just like you.

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25 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

I already explained why i am not going to post all the specifics in this thread, its too big for that. It took me 2+ years to come to the conclusion i have.

Scotty, consider the following:

I have been contemplating the meaning of life, the origin of the universe, the role of humanity, and the like for half a century. It has taken a major effort to determine what is relevant and what is not and assemble it into a cohesive whole. With that work complete it is apparent that by adopting methdological naturalism, humanity has obscured the importance and reality of teleology in the emergence first of structure, then of life and finally intelligence and self awareness. The source of the guidance and direction of evolution, in the general and the biological sense, I have determined to be recursive action by what humanity will become, influencing the universe from its very earliest moments.

Faced with that statement would you not be inclined to ask for evidence? If the author of the statement replied the evidence was too much for this place, what would your reaction be? The rational reaction would be to say, "Fine. Thank you very much. If you ever change your mind let me know."

Edited by Area54
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Just now, Scotty99 said:

But im using science and cosmology as the basis of my evidence?

You haven't presented any evidence. When asked, you have refused to present any evidence. So, as far as I can tell, your "evidence" is based on unicorn shit.

 

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Just now, Strange said:

You haven't presented any evidence. When asked, you have refused to present any evidence. So, as far as I can tell, your "evidence" is based on unicorn shit.

 

Again ive made that thread here before, it devolves into nonsense because people agree to disagree on what the history ACTUALLY says. This isnt a black and white issue as it takes TIME to sort these things out when researching such difficult topics. 

If people are genuinely curious and have no idea what im talking about you would need to go back to galileo as a starting point of where i feel the discourse began.

10 minutes ago, Area54 said:

Scotty, consider the following:

I have been contemplating the meaning of life, the origin of the universe, the role of humanity, and the like for half a century. It has taken a major effort to determine what is relevant and what is not and assemble it into a cohesive whole. With that work complete it is apparent that by adopting methdological naturalism, humanity has obscured the importance and reality of teleology in the emergence first of structure, then of life and finally intelligence and self awareness. The source of the guidance and direction of evolution, in the general and the biological sense, I have determined to be recursive action by what humanity will become, influencing the universe from its very earliest moments.

Faced with that statement would you not be inclined to ask for evidence? If the author of the statement replied the evidence was too much for this place, what would your reaction be? The rational reaction would be to say, "Fine. Thank you very much. If you ever change your mind let me know."

Again, i feel the evidence is there. Whoever's quote that is assumes a creator and evolution are incompatible, i dont see it that way at all......never have actually.

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2 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

Again ive made that thread here before, it devolves into nonsense because people agree to disagree on what the history ACTUALLY says.

Nonsense.

But you have a history of misrepresenting things. For example, when told that GR can't disprove egocentrism you go on to claim that GR supports your beliefs. I have no idea what aspects of history you are misrepresenting but I have about as much trust in your grasp on history as your grasp of science or logic (i.e. none).

3 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

If people are genuinely curious and have no idea what im talking about you would need to go back to galileo as a starting point of where i feel the discourse began.

Go on then, show us where Galileo was wrong.

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4 minutes ago, Scotty99 said:

Again ive made that thread here before, it devolves into nonsense because people agree to disagree on what the history ACTUALLY says. This isnt a black and white issue as it takes TIME to sort these things out when researching such difficult topics. 

If people are genuinely curious and have no idea what im talking about you would need to go back to galileo as a starting point of where i feel the discourse began.

Again, i feel the evidence is there. Whoever's quote that is assumes a creator and evolution are incompatible, i dont see it that way at all......never have actually.

If I understand you correctly you have made that argument before and others disagreed with the accuracy of your evidence. So this time you've decided to present your argument without the evidence in order to avoid controversy.

How's that working out for you?

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