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How does space get inside of an inflating balloon?


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Ah but there is always other readers involved 😉  edit: besides I'm keeping it as simple and rudimentary as possible. Its far more complex than I've described thus far

They didn't just find "something" and decide to name it the Higgs Boson.   The Higgs Boson was predicted to exist as part of the theory outlining the Higgs mechanism. It was predicted to have a set

Spoken by someone with no concept of what science states about a given subject.   Sorry but your opinion means little compared to the available body of evidence

I recently inflated a balloon inside a box, how doe's the box space end up inside the balloon?

 

It doesn't? The air inside the balloon comes from your lungs, and the air inside the box either partly escapes to maintain normal pressure, or remains in the box with an increase in pressure (almost certainly the former). Perhaps you could make your question a bit clearer?

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It doesn't? The air inside the balloon comes from your lungs, and the air inside the box either partly escapes to maintain normal pressure, or remains in the box with an increase in pressure (almost certainly the former). Perhaps you could make your question a bit clearer?

If I were to guess, I'd think he's trying to make a point about the "balloon analogy" for aspects of expansion of the Universe.

 

(And missing the point that it's an analogy intended to illustrate aspects.)

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If I were to guess, I'd think he's trying to make a point about the "balloon analogy" for aspects of expansion of the Universe.

 

(And missing the point that it's an analogy intended to illustrate aspects.)

 

Fair enough. I'm not well versed enough in physics to know to spot the analogy.

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It doesn't? The air inside the balloon comes from your lungs, and the air inside the box either partly escapes to maintain normal pressure, or remains in the box with an increase in pressure (almost certainly the former). Perhaps you could make your question a bit clearer?

Ok ,

 

Place two geometrical points 20 cm apart (A) and (B)

 

Diagram

 

...........A------------------------------B......................

 

 

Between point (A) and (B) is space and beyond both points is space.

 

 

Place a deflated balloon central of both points. Represented by X in the diagram

 

...............A-------------x-----------------B.................

 

I inflate the balloon which has a 26 cm diameter x axis

 

Point A and Point B end up inside of the balloon

 

how?

If I were to guess, I'd think he's trying to make a point about the "balloon analogy" for aspects of expansion of the Universe.

 

(And missing the point that it's an analogy intended to illustrate aspects.)

No, I actually want to know how the space of the box ends up inside of the balloon. The air is displaced by the balloons surface and pressured out of the box, but the space remains. But by ''magic'' ends up inside the balloon.

Edited by JohnLesser
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I recently inflated a balloon inside a box, how doe's the box space end up inside the balloon

Space is not substantive, it is just volume, so the balloon expands with no effect on space or space on the balloon. I'm ignoring molecules and pressure.

Edited by StringJunky
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Space is not substantive, it is just volume, so the balloon expands with no effect on space or space on the ballooon. I'm ignoring molecules and pressure.

Are you saying that space passes through the balloons skin and the balloons skin passes through space?

 

The skin offering no resistance in permitivity and permeability to space?

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Are you saying that space passes through the balloons skin and the balloons skin passes through space?

 

The skin offering no resistance in permitivity and permeability to space?

It's a hard thing for me to to describe, but space is no-thing so it can't pass through it, although it could be interpreted as passing through it; I'm assuming an impermeable membrane. The expanding balloon will just displace the existing volume that is outside of it and add volume inside of it. You are actually asking a practically impossible question but I'm going along with the scenario I think you are trying to convey. Basically, I'm imagining a balloon self-expanding in a vacuum. Is that right?

Edited by StringJunky
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It's a hard thing for me to to describe, but space is no-thing so it can't pass through it, although it could be interpreted as passing through it; I'm assuming an impermeable membrane. The expanding balloon will just displace the existing volume that is outside of it and add volume inside of it. You are actually asking a practically impossible question but I'm going along with the scenario I think you are trying to convey.

I was told to ask questions, I was not told the difficulty to set of the question. You say the expanding surface will displace the existing volume around it, I agree it will displace the existing air surrounding it, however the space in the box definitely ends up inside the balloon, the balloons surface is displaced in space , the space is seemingly in situate position and can not be displaced?

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Are you saying that space passes through the balloons skin and the balloons skin passes through space?

 

The skin offering no resistance in permitivity and permeability to space?

Space isn't a substance, so it's not a thing that need pass through the balloon.

 

If someone or something stands between you and some other stationary object, does that object get further away? Of course not. Distance is not a substance. It does not get displaced by objects.

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Space isn't a substance, so it's not a thing that need pass through the balloon.

I know space isn't a substance, I know it doe's not need to pass through the balloon but regardless it doe's anyway. Do you deny that geometrical positions outside of the balloons interior in the box , do not end up inside the interior of the balloon when inflated inside the box?

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I know space isn't a substance, I know it doe's not need to pass through the balloon but regardless it doe's anyway. Do you deny that geometrical positions outside of the balloons interior in the box , do not end up inside the interior of the balloon when inflated inside the box?

I do not deny that. I deny that your treatment of geometry makes any sense or has any basis in math or physics.

 

And space does not belong to female deer.

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I do not deny that. I deny that your treatment of geometry makes any sense or has any basis in math or physics.

 

And space does not belong to female deer.

Oh i see the doe's error now , thx.

 

 

I am using xyz , how am I misusing geometry?

 

 

We have two geometrical points inside of XYZ , a balloon inflates, both points end up inside of the balloon. I am not making that up , what is wrong with it?

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Did you apply the ideal gas laws to the air inside of the balloon. Other than volume change it is simply the air inside the baloon becoming less dense.

 

The volume can change if a) the balloon material becomes weaker b) atmospheric pressure outside the balloon being less dense.

 

Space is just volume not a substance. Air does not need to enter the balloon or exit for a volume change.

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Oh i see the doe's error now , thx.

 

 

I am using xyz , how am I misusing geometry?

 

 

We have two geometrical points inside of XYZ , a balloon inflates, both points end up inside of the balloon. I am not making that up , what is wrong with it?

You are implying that there needs to be some physical mechanism for a coordinate to change from being defined to be inside vs. outside.

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Did you apply the ideal gas laws to the air inside of the balloon. Other than volume change it is simply the air inside the baloon becoming less dense.

 

The volume can change if a) the balloon material becomes weaker b) atmospheric pressure outside the balloon being less dense.

 

Space is just volume not a substance. Air does not need to enter the balloon or exit for a volume change.

The air inside the balloon has no real bearing on the question, we know how the air gets into the balloon and how the pressure of the air expands the balloon, but the volume of space inside the balloon somehow gets from the outside to the inside . Originally the volume of space was in the box, the box is now filled with inflated balloon, but the volume in the box is now inside the balloon.

Edited by JohnLesser
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Why would that be an issue when space is simply volume. You keep trying to apply some substance requirement to something that is only volume. Now before you jump into spacetime curvature keep in mind GR is a freefall motion coordinate map, that also applies the thermodynamic laws.

 

Spacetime curvature is a mathematical descripive of specific relations not a fabric of any sort.

Edited by Mordred
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You are implying that there needs to be some physical mechanism for a coordinate to change from being defined to be inside vs. outside.

I asked a question, I have not implied anything, I asked how does the spacial volume of the box end up inside of the balloon ? I used coordinate system to show in another way what I meant by my question to remove any confusion from the question.

 

I know the balloon is air tight, I know the balloon is water tight, I even know if the balloon is opaque it is stops light or some light, but seemingly space can not be displaced by the balloons surface , the balloons surface seemingly passing through space as if it was nothing there and the space ending up inside of the balloon.

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The only displacement is available volume inside and outside the balloon. Volume change displaces nothing else. That is all a change in space is. Volume change.

 

space =volume. Nothing else.

Edited by Mordred
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The only displacement is available volume inside and outside the balloon. Volume change displaces nothing else. That is all a change in space is. Volume change.

 

space =volume. Nothing else.

That does not answer the question, how does the volume of space in the box end up a volume of space in the balloon, the balloons surface offers no ''isolation.'' Meaning the space inside the balloon is not isolated from the rest of the outer space by the surface of the skin of the balloon.

deflate the balloon and like magic the volume of space is back in the box or the other way , the points are back outside of the balloon.

Edited by JohnLesser
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I asked a question, I have not implied anything, I asked how does the spacial volume of the box end up inside of the balloon ? I used coordinate system to show in another way what I meant by my question to remove any confusion from the question.

 

I know the balloon is air tight, I know the balloon is water tight, I even know if the balloon is opaque it is stops light or some light, but seemingly space can not be displaced by the balloons surface , the balloons surface seemingly passing through space as if it was nothing there and the space ending up inside of the balloon.

As a side note, this is one thing that gets you in trouble. Insisting that you have implied nothing and just asked a question is either deceitful or incredibly clueless. How you phrase a question has implications, but you've done more than just ask a question in this thread.

 

Space does not get displaced because it is not a substance. You say you know this, so why do you keep asking the question?

That does not answer the question, how does the volume of space in the box end up a volume of space in the balloon, the balloons surface offers no ''isolation.'' Meaning the space inside the balloon is not isolated from the rest of the outer space by the surface of the skin of the balloon.

 

A physical barrier would not isolate geometry, which is a mathematical construct. Why would you think it would?

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