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Can Math Prove the Existence of God?


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That's the question this entertaining AsapSCINCE video asks and seeks to answer. According to the this video's host, the math suggests that we are more likely simulations in a program developed by more advanced humans than products of some celestial creator. What are your thoughts?

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Two short points in lieu of a much longer post.

 

* Math can not prove anything about the world. Math models Euclidean geometry and non-Euclidean geometry. They can't both be true. They're both logically consistent. Math has no way to say which might be true about the world.

 

Physics is the discipline that seeks to determine truth about the world. Physics uses math to build models. But the math doesn't care. You can use math to model multiple realities that are inconsistent with each other. The only requirement of a math theory is that it's internally consistent and interesting. True or false doesn't apply.

 

* Simulation theory is bunk. Many reasons. If that's your question, it certainly deserves a thread. But it's a separate question from whether math tell us what's true or false in the world.

 

But now that you mention it ... one of the strongest arguments against simulation theory is that it IS essentially a theological or metaphysical claim. Simulationists are seeking God and pretending to be rationalists. "God isn't the Baby Jesus, it's a big computer in the sky." Give me a break.

Edited by wtf
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Two short points in lieu of a much longer post.

 

* Math can not prove anything about the world. Math models Euclidean geometry and non-Euclidean geometry. They can't both be true. They're both logically consistent. Math has no way to say which might be true about the world.

 

Physics is the discipline that seeks to determine truth about the world. Physics uses math to build models. But the math doesn't care. You can use math to model multiple realities that are inconsistent with each other. The only requirement of a math theory is that it's internally consistent and interesting. True or false doesn't apply.

 

* Simulation theory is bunk. Many reasons. If that's your question, it certainly deserves a thread. But it's a separate question from whether math tell us what's true or false in the world.

 

But now that you mention it ... one of the strongest arguments against simulation theory is that it IS essentially a theological or metaphysical claim. Simulationists are seeking God and pretending to be rational.

 

It isn't my question per se, but rather the question raised by the video link I provide above. Also, the video appears to be discussing probabilities rather than truths and, as I'm sure you are aware, probability is a determinant of math. In terms of probability, I can't say that I agree with the video's conclusions or whether any of the probabilities discussed at valid.

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If you're seeking for, you (or world/universe) is simulation or not, you should search for abnormalities.

Like in testing computer game: player can't walk through walls. But if there is error in code, some can bypass, and pass through walls (just an example)..

 

What do you want to do with this knowledge.. ?

 

Do you want to know, who is the main programmer.. ? ;)

 

The main programmer, doesn't bother about pray, doesn't want to be beloved, doesn't bother about money or power, etc.

Edited by Sensei
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If you're seeking for, you (or world/universe) is simulation or not, you should search for abnormalities.

Like in testing computer game: player can't walk through walls. But if there is error in code, some can bypass, and pass through walls (just an example)..

 

 

How would you know whether such "abnormalities" were the result of a simulation or because that's just the way the universe is. Some people have tried to claim that quantum "weirdness" must be evidence of a simulation, for example.

 

It is basically an unfalsifiable idea and of zero value, except as a sort of "mind game" that kids like to play.

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The video is applying the statistics wrong by not factoring in the probabilities of god/gods/simulations being real, which would be required when comparing a posteriori probabilities.

Of course, much like the numbers in the video, they would all be pulled out off a dog's ear and be completely worthless.

Edited by Bender
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As I said, I don't agree with the video's conclusion or whether any of the probabilities discussed are valid. However, it seemed an interesting topic for discussion in a science forum, which is why I posted a link here. According to the video's assumptions, the probability of our being in a simulation is higher than our being a creation of some celestial being. Although I don't believe either is true, there isn't much of a distinction between the two in my opinion.

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The simulation hypothesis is not falsifiable, and pointless, as has been said above.

 

Now that I'm on my laptop rather than my phone, I'll show why the statistics is all wrong (regardless of the actual values)

[math]p(\theta|x) = \frac{p(x|\theta)p(\theta)}{p(x)}.[/math]

with

[math]p(\theta|x)[/math] the posterior probability of us living in a simulation, given that there is life,

[math]p(x|\theta)[/math] the posterior probability of there being life, given that this is a simulation,

[math]p(\theta)[/math] the probability of the simulation hypothesis, which is the factor that is forgotten in the video, and

[math]p(x)[/math] the overall probability of life

Edited by Bender
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  • 4 weeks later...

Math cannot prove the existence of God because the overwhelming evidence we have at our disposal shows that God simply does not exist and has never existed. In other words, there is no such thing as a God and there simply never has been.

 

If God existed then there wouldn't be so many people dying or in pain on this planet and for no justified reason for their suffering and hardships.

 

Many people are in pain on this planet and God does nothing to stop their agony, therefore God is either very evil or he doesn't exist.

 

http://www.dpjs.co.uk/god.html

Edited by seriously disabled
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Math cannot prove the existence of God because the overwhelming evidence we have at our disposal shows that God simply does not exist and has never existed. In other words, there is no such thing as a God and there simply never has been.

 

No, it doesn't.

 

If God existed then there wouldn't be so many people dying and suffering on this planet and for no justified reason.

 

 

Define God.

 

Many people are in pain on this planet and God does nothing to stop their suffering and agony, therefore God is either very evil or he doesn't exist.

 

 

That's a non-sequitur, however you define dog, sorry, god.

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If God existed then there wouldn't be so many people dying or in pain on this planet and for no justified reason for their suffering and hardships.

 

Many people are in pain on this planet and God does nothing to stop their agony, therefore God is either very evil or he doesn't exist.

 

 

So if this is evidence for an evil god, it can't be evidence that he/it doesn't exist.

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  • 4 weeks later...

If you are talking God as in a creator, then the answer would be: At one time God as a creator possibly did exist, but not now. Why? There is a Fundamental Law: Impermanence creates impermanence. You can attempt to prove this wrong, but if you believe God/Allah is a creator, you'll become Godless. Easy to figure out what is Impermanence, All Existence. Things may appear to be permanent because the span of time is beyond comprehension. This Universe and everything connected to it, at some point will disappear, return to a pure state, then another universe will begin again.

 

If you think your "Soul" is permanence, think about "God created you, all that is you, even your Soul": Impermanence creates Impermanence, but it does say "when you die, you don't come back till the very end, after Judgement" sounds self-righteous, so if you believe in God, you leave this world until God comes with his "Magic Wand" and removes all the problems that people created.

 

If God is Permanence, Permanence creates Permanence, as God is Immortal, all existence would be immortal, but Stars, planets, all life are Finite.

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