Well folks, I read the article (only once) and immediately thought it explained a lot about the way I have felt and the way I have organised my 88 years lived so far. I then read the description found by googling otrovert to my wife (one of the very few I feel close to) and asked " Do you think this seems a bit like me?" She laughed and said "100% like you!".

I was wondering if anyone else on the forum would feel the same after reading some googled information :-

An otrovert is an emerging personality concept for an emotionally independent individual who easily socializes but has no desire to fit into groups or follow the collective "hive mind". Coined by psychiatrist Dr. Rami Kaminski, the term combines otro (Spanish for "other") and vert (to turn). [1, 2]

Key Characteristics

• Socially Adept, Not an Outcast: They are friendly and can navigate social settings, but they don't draw their identity or self-worth from peer validation. [1]

• Not an Introvert or Extrovert: Unlike introverts, they aren't necessarily drained by people; unlike extroverts, they don't gain energy from crowds. [1]

• Depth Over Breadth: They prefer intimate, one-on-one relationships rather than identifying with broad political, social, or communal groups. [1, 2]

• Independent Thinkers: They often march to the beat of their own drum and have a strong capacity for original, autonomous thought. [1, 2]

The Debate Around the Trait

Because this is a very new framework introduced in Dr. Kaminski’s book, The Gift of Not Belonging, it is not an officially established clinical diagnosis or formal category in traditional personality psychology. [1, 2]

• The Appeal: Many people who feel they never quite fit into clubs, cliques, or communal groups find the concept deeply validating and liberating. [1, 2]

• The Skepticism: Some psychologists and commentators, as discussed in University of Michigan Psychology News, suggest it is less of a groundbreaking biological "type" and more of a specific configuration of already-known traits like extreme individualism.[1, 2]

• Community Sentiments: On discussion forums like Reddit, users express mixed opinions; while many resonate strongly with the idea, others feel it's simply a new label for traits already covered by existing classifications. [1]

7 sites

• Are You an Otrovert?What Belonging Means and What It Doesn't

  Are You an Otrovert? What Belonging Means and What It Doesn't — A New Trio of Beings * An “otrovert” embodies the personality trai...

  Medium

• Enter the Otrovert - LinkedIn

  If Kaminski is correct, it adds further fuel to the debate about why or whether we need to pin labels on people. There's an argume...

  LinkedIn

• Otrovert - Wikipedia

  * Origin. Kaminski introduced the term in his 2025 book, The Gift of Not Belonging, and it appears in his writing about belonging,

  Wikipedia

10 minutes ago, OldTony said:

Do you think this...

Why it's not accepted in social science

• Lack of empirical data: The term is too new to be supported by peer-reviewed, empirical studies or diagnostic manuals. [1, 2]

• Personality dimensions: Academic psychologists generally classify personality along continuous dimensions, like the Big Five personality traits, rather than isolated categories. [1]

• Expert skepticism: Experts, such as Dr. Aidan Wright at the University of Michigan, note that it is highly unlikely that "otroversion" will be classified as a new, distinct personality type. [1]

• Overlaps with existing concepts: On psychology forums and in academic discussions, some experts argue that it simply overlaps with existing concepts (like ambiversion) or traits of neurodivergence, such as high-masking autism. [1, 2]

The Bottom Line

While the concept resonates with many individuals who feel different from group dynamics, it remains an informal, conversational label rather than a formally recognized psychological construc

"The Bottom Line

While the concept resonates with many individuals who feel different from group dynamics, it remains an informal, conversational label rather than a formally recognized psychological construc"

Thank you iNow, I can accept completely what you say. Whether the concept does or does not deserve its own classification the fact is the description resonates strongly with me and I and I am wondering if it resonates with others on a science forum.

Today, I learned that one can place LaTeX in the title of a thread. Well done, @Markus Hanke ! 👍

TIL that Ceuta, Spain is NOT an exclave, because an exclave is a portion of a state or district geographically separated from the main part, by some surrounding alien territory. Since Ceuta can access Spain directly across the sea, which is not alien territory, it doesn't qualify as an exclave. Nor as an enclave, since it is not surrounded by Morocco - though it does share a land border with them.

So I was incorrectly calling Ceuta an exclave. (Kaliningrad, however, is one, being separated from Russia by Poland and Lithuania) Since I'd never heard of Ceuta until a couple days ago due to thousands of desperate migrants swarming in from Morocco I didn't make the mistake for very long.

23 hours ago, TheVat said:

TIL that Ceuta, Spain is NOT an exclave, because an exclave is a portion of a state or district geographically separated from the main part, by some surrounding alien territory. Since Ceuta can access Spain directly across the sea, which is not alien territory, it doesn't qualify as an exclave. Nor as an enclave, since it is not surrounded by Morocco - though it does share a land border with them.

So I was incorrectly calling Ceuta an exclave. (Kaliningrad, however, is one, being separated from Russia by Poland and Lithuania) Since I'd never heard of Ceuta until a couple days ago due to thousands of desperate migrants swarming in from Morocco I didn't make the mistake for very long.

Ceuta is correctly described as an ‘autonomous Spanish city’, one which happens to be located on the North African coast on the La Almina peninsula which is joined by a narrow isthmus to the territory of Morocco.

The interesting point is that it isn’t the only one. There is another autonomous Spanish city and former free port called Melilla which is located several hundred kilometres to the east along the Moroccan coast on the eastern side of another peninsula called the Cape of Three Forks just north of Nador. But you won’t hear very much about it in the news because the sea passage to Almeira in Spain from there is about  103 miles - five times longer longer than than the sea crossing between Ceuta and Algeciras which is barely 20 miles.

Morocco maintains irredentist claims on both Ceuta and Melilla, but has discovered that fomenting chaos in Ceuta by standing down their border guards at regular intervals and allowing tens of thousands of illegal migrants to flood into Spanish territory generates a much more gratifying amount of press coverage and Schengen related paranoia in the EU, because Ceuta is so much closer by sea to mainland Spain.

TIL we are seemingly going to need passwords to communicate with each other in Real Life.

The secret codewords that scammers hate

Deepfake scams might use your voice, but they don't know what's in your head. Five minutes of preparation could save your loved ones from falling for fraud.

Words fail me.

Edited August 5Aug 5 by geordief

3 hours ago, geordief said:

Words fail me.

Antfarm.

1 hour ago, TheVat said:

Antfarm.

mkpụmkpụ

TIL that Ụlọ Mkpu is Igbo for termite mounds (or anthills)

Also that the IPA symbol for the kp phoneme is [ɓ̥], a voiceless bilabial-velar plosive that does not exist in any European language. Really difficult for a Yorkshireman, especially when you get two in quick succession.

TIL that CuriosityStream, an explicitly educational streaming service, was founded by John Hendricks, the guy who founded Discovery Channel.

As someone who witnessed the decline of Discovery Channel and Discovery Science (that one was actually shut down elsewhere, my country is one of a handful ones that still have it), this piece of news just... feels good.

TIL never to squat with your spurs on.

42 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

TIL never to squat with your spurs on.

Yes, old cowboy saying out here is never squat with your spurs on. This might add TMI to your TIL experience but... when cowboys had to poop, far from commodious civilization, they often would remove their boots rather than remove the spurs. They left their spurs permanently attached to a dedicated pair of riding boots, as letting leather boots sit without spurs could distort the shape of the heel counter (a structural support at the back) over time. There was also a spur shelf (a ridge on the back of the heel) which held the metal band securely in place, and this also was better not to keep taking on and off.

On 8/16/2026 at 3:39 PM, TheVat said:

Yes, old cowboy saying out here is never squat with your spurs on. This might add TMI to your TIL experience but... when cowboys had to poop, far from commodious civilization, they often would remove their boots rather than remove the spurs. They left their spurs permanently attached to a dedicated pair of riding boots, as letting leather boots sit without spurs could distort the shape of the heel counter (a structural support at the back) over time. There was also a spur shelf (a ridge on the back of the heel) which held the metal band securely in place, and this also was better not to keep taking on and off.

This adds a whole new meaning to the phrase - "He died with his boots on !" - (p.s. nice to have the forums back again).

48 minutes ago, toucana said:

This adds a whole new meaning to the phrase - "He died with his boots on !" - (p.s. nice to have the forums back again).

Wouldn't want to die with your boots off. How embarrassing.

Today I learned that the carrying power of a stream or river is proportional to the sixth power of the velocity.

Today I learned that Ciabatta bread is named after the Italian word Ciabatta meaning  ‘slipper’. My surprise was compounded when I learned that it was invented as recently as 1982.

I had always imagined that Ciabatta was one of those time-honoured Italian food names whose origins go far back into antiquity - like Prosciutto a dry-cured ham that dates from the early Roman empire, or Gorgonzola - a blue cheese named after a town in Lombardy where it was first created in the 9th century AD (allegedly by a love-sick cheesemaker who forget to cover a vat in the rush to meet his mistress).

The backstory of Ciabatta is rather more prosaic. It was first produced by a baker called Arnaldo Cavallari who lived in Polesine in NE Italy. He was one of a number of Italian bakers concerned by the local popularity of sandwiches made with baguettes imported from France. He spent several weeks experimenting before coming up with a brand new bread recipe consisting of a soft wet dough made with high gluten flour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciabatta

Ciabatta bread quickly became very popular in Italy, and was introduced to the UK in 1985 by Marks  & Spencer, and to the USA by the Orlando Bakery of Cleveland.

Edited October 19Oct 19 by toucana
corrected 'experimenting' and "with a" p.3

32 minutes ago, toucana said:

Today I learned that Ciabatta bread is named after the Italian word Ciabatta meaning  ‘slipper’. My surprise was compounded when I learned that it was invented as recently as 1982.

I had always imagined that Ciabatta was one of those time-honoured Italian food names whose origins go far back into antiquity - like Prosciutto a dry-cured ham that dates from the early Roman empire, or Gorgonzola - a blue cheese named after a town in Lombardy where it was first created in the 9th century AD (allegedly by a love-sick cheesemaker who forget to cover a vat in the rush to meet his mistress).

The backstory of Ciabatta is rather more prosaic. It was first produced by a baker called Arnaldo Cavallari who lived in Polesine in NE Italy. He was one of a number of Italian bakers concerned by the local popularity of sandwiches made with baguettes imported from France. He spent several weeks experimenting before coming up with a brand new bread recipe consisting of a soft wet dough made with high gluten flour.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciabatta

Ciabatta bread quickly became very popular in Italy, and was introduced to the UK in 1985 by Marks  & Spencer, and to the USA by the Orlando Bakery of Cleveland.

Interesting, I have always thought Ciabatta was one of those italian soft breads, made with (olive) oil rather than fat as traditional loaves elsewhere is.

The difference between the oil and the fat is that the fat gives the crumb (cooked loaf) body to puff up and stand up as for instance baguettes.

52 minutes ago, studiot said:

Interesting, I have always thought Ciabatta was one of those italian soft breads, made with (olive) oil rather than fat as traditional loaves elsewhere is.

The difference between the oil and the fat is that the fat gives the crumb (cooked loaf) body to puff up and stand up as for instance baguettes.

Does that work with butter?(ie it makes the crumb puff up)

(I always just throw in whatever oil I happen to have standing around at the same time as I add the water)

To make the crumb puffier(bigger holes) I give extra water ,so a sloppier dough.

It is not the oil or fat that makes the dough rise.

They reduce drying out of the baked bread over time and act as a sort of preservative, though I don't know the mechanism.

The claim that fat strengthens the 'body' much more than oil and so holds up the structure when 'puffed up' , comes from the days of the books by Mrs Beaton or Elizabeth David.

28 minutes ago, studiot said:

It is not the oil or fat that makes the dough rise.

They reduce drying out of the baked bread over time and act as a sort of preservative, though I don't know the mechanism.

The claim that fat strengthens the 'body' much more than oil and so holds up the structure when 'puffed up' , comes from the days of the books by Mrs Beaton or Elizabeth David.

Yes ,I have found that .For years I ignored the call in recipes to add oil and so my loaves did indeed dry out quickly (but I ate them quickly)

For the last few years I have always thrown in oil and the difference is noticeable (they do last a bit longer and don't dry out as much)

So we don't know if fat is actually any different to oil in that effect except for Beeton and David claiming or believing so?

(I hardly ever use white flour ,which I think dries out more quickly anyway)

Today (well last night) ,some 60 years since I studied the physics of light I finally learned how a basic telescope works(thanks Jim Al Khalil)

The first (concave ) lens focuses the rays onto a concave lens which seems to restore the paraĺlel nature of the beam which is directed then to the eye.

Today I learned that ,if you put the mycelium of all the fungi on the planet end to end it would span half the width of the Milky Way

@14.05 minutes in ,narrated as it happens by the singer Björk

Some filament!

I tried to double check this on the internet and it seems fairly well reported ,although the figure is only given as 1/10 th of the width of the Milky Way....

https://www.google.com/search?ie=UTF-8&client=ms-android-samsung-rvo1&source=android-browser&q=mycelium+width+milky+way+galaxy

Not as impressive but not to be sneezed at either.

...

Edited Monday at 12:26 AM2 days by geordief