Jump to content
Itoero

Would the world be a better place without religion?

Recommended Posts

If Islamic extremism is caused by oppression and injustice and Islam terrorism is a cause of that then islam terrorism should be limited to the country that caused the oppression and injustice.

 

Islamic extremism can be caused by injustice because religion (Islam) can create or make people believe there is injustice...like when Muslim extremists killed Charlie Hebdo - people.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Islamic extremism is caused by oppression and injustice and Islam terrorism is a cause of that then islam terrorism should be limited to the country that caused the oppression and injustice.

 

Islamic extremism can be caused by injustice because religion (Islam) can create or make people believe there is injustice...like when Muslim extremists killed Charlie Hebdo - people.

 

(sigh) I didn't think you understood, but hope springs eternal (you know, the green arrow) ;)

If Islamic extremism is caused by oppression and injustice and Islam terrorism is a cause of that then islam terrorism should be limited to the country that caused the oppression and injustice.

 

That's some tortured thinking :eek: are you OK? :unsure:

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Islamic extremism is caused by oppression and injustice and Islam terrorism is a cause of that then islam terrorism should be limited to the country that caused the oppression and injustice.

 

 

That's true to some extent. What country beset by Muslim Extremism do you believe has played no part in oppression and injustice?

 

What caused that perception? It must have been quite easy to perceive to drive them to such depraved violence.

Well, in the case of Dylan Roof, it was in part because "blacks were taking over the world".

It may have been easy for Dylan Roof to perceive, but not so obvious to the rest of us.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well, in the case of Dylan Roof, it was in part because "blacks were taking over the world".

It may have been easy for Dylan Roof to perceive, but not so obvious to the rest of us.

 

Sometimes the joke goes between our legs, not over our heads (JUST an analogy).

Don't forget the difference between the manipulator and the manipulatee.

Edited by dimreepr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Don't forget the difference between the manipulator and the manipulatee.

That is why I thought it useful to say "perceived injustice". Often times extremists are manipulated by others into perceiving injustice where there is none.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That is why I thought it useful to say "perceived injustice". Often times extremists are manipulated by others into perceiving injustice where there is none.

 

Good point. Damn it +1.

Edited by dimreepr

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Of course not, you need to brush up on your comprehension skills.

Thank you so much for your kind tip dimreepr. Take one from me - stop antagonising the discussion by attacking me for no reason.

 

I'm saying that some people that are being oppressed are Islamic; the other 99% of the people who are also Islamic, don't drink, say their prayers and are charitable, because they use the book properly; it's hardly fair to claim they are responsible for those who are so repressed and desperate for change, that they torture it's meaning to suit their needs.

Now since you started to argue so dearly with me, let me ask you two questions:

1. Might you be mentioning the "Quran" above?

2. If yes, I suggest you brush up either on the contents of that book and if you read it - on your comprehension skills youreself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Of course not, you need to brush up on your comprehension skills.

Thank you so much for your kind tip dimreepr. Take one from me - stop antagonising the discussion by attacking me for no reason.

 

I'm saying that some people that are being oppressed are Islamic; the other 99% of the people who are also Islamic, don't drink, say their prayers and are charitable, because they use the book properly; it's hardly fair to claim they are responsible for those who are so repressed and desperate for change, that they torture it's meaning to suit their needs.

Now since you started to argue so dearly with me, let me ask you two questions:

1. Might you be mentioning the "Quran" above?

2. If yes, I suggest you brush up either on the contents of that book and if you read it - on your comprehension skills youreself.

 

 

1. Nope, read again.

 

2. What???

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

1. Nope, read again.

My comprehension skills are fine., thank you. I can repeat my request or explain it in more detail uppon your request or... I can put it shorter to skip the fuss - stop being a dixx by trying to ridicule ones comprehension skills before any discussion has emerged. Is that clear enough for ya?

 

2. What???

You state that "the other 99% of the people who are also Islamic, don't drink, say their prayers and are charitable, because they use the book properly"

My question to you is: Which book are you referring to...the Quran which tells to punish apostasy with death or are you talking about "Winnie the Pooh" ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If Islamic extremism is caused by oppression and injustice and Islam terrorism is a cause of that then islam terrorism should be limited to the country that caused the oppression and injustice.

 

 

Those who feel oppressed and injustice may blame the country they live in (which could be almost any country in the world) or may blame those countries which, historically, have been the cause of the current problems (USA, UK, Russia, others). So they will feel justified attacking almost any country.

 

Despite that, the overwhelming number of terrorist attacks, and terrorist deaths, take place in primarily Islamic countries and nearly all the victims are Muslims.

 

 

 

Islamic extremism can be caused by injustice because religion (Islam) can create or make people believe there is injustice...like when Muslim extremists killed Charlie Hebdo - people.

 

What evidence do you have that Islam creates or makes people believe there is injustice? Oppression and injustice (or perceived oppression and injustice) is primarily a political (and, to some extent, economic) problem. It is the same underlying reasons that caused the Brexit vote, Trump's triumph, the rise of right-wing extremists in France and elsewhere.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

My question to you is: Which book are you referring to...the Quran which tells to punish apostasy with death or are you talking about "Winnie the Pooh" ?

 

Nope, the one that teaches peace and understanding.

 

Are you an Islamic terrorist?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You state that "the other 99% of the people who are also Islamic, don't drink, say their prayers and are charitable, because they use the book properly"

My question to you is: Which book are you referring to...the Quran which tells to punish apostasy with death or are you talking about "Winnie the Pooh" ?

The Christian Bible also requires death by stoning for adultery and various other brutal punishments. The vast majority of Christians do not endorse such things. As far as I know, the same is true of most Muslims.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

You state that "the other 99% of the people who are also Islamic, don't drink, say their prayers and are charitable, because they use the book properly"

My question to you is: Which book are you referring to...the Quran which tells to punish apostasy with death or are you talking about "Winnie the Pooh" ?

 

dimreepr was speaking of the "proper" use of the book. Most Muslims do not consider apostasy worthy of death, any more than than Christians believe not being a virgin on your wedding night is worthy of death.

Neither are generally considered proper use of the book by a reasonable person.

Edited by zapatos

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

That's true to some extent. What country beset by Muslim Extremism do you believe has played no part in oppression and injustice?

Why do you think injustice and oppression causes Muslim extremisme? By that logic, oppression and injustice caused 100's of sexual assaults (24 rapes) and numerous thefts in Germany on New Year's Eve 2015/2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you think injustice and oppression causes Muslim extremisme? By that logic, oppression and injustice caused 100's of sexual assaults (24 rapes) and numerous thefts in Germany on New Year's Eve 2015/2016.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Year's_Eve_sexual_assaults_in_Germany

 

LMAO, it's always fun...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

My question to you is: Which book are you referring to...the Quran which tells to punish apostasy with death or are you talking about "Winnie the Pooh" ?

 

Nope, the one that teaches peace and understanding.

 

Are you an Islamic terrorist?

 

 

Are you having an episode of lacking any comprehension whatsoever? Can you answer my question which book are you referring to instead of asking me an idiotic question if I'm a terrorist?

 

 

 

The Christian Bible also requires death by stoning for adultery and various other brutal punishments. The vast majority of Christians do not endorse such things. As far as I know, the same is true of most Muslims.

 

I despise the bible "morality" as well. I'm an atheist. The difference is that nobody stoned anybody to death this year according to the bible laws and Saudi Arabia alone behaded houndreds of people in the last 2 years judged according to Sharia law for non lethal offences - including gays, apostasy, victims of rape, etc.

 

dimreepr was speaking of the "proper" use of the book. Most Muslims do not consider apostasy worthy of death, any more than than Christians believe not being a virgin on your wedding night is worthy of death.

Neither are generally considered proper use of the book by a reasonable person.

Look up how many people die anually in Sharia ruled countries. Go to Riyadh to see the executions youreslf. And most of all - stop kidding youreself.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Why do you think injustice and oppression causes Muslim extremisme?

 

 

The causes are fairly well researched. As well as perceived injustice, there is also state sponsorship as well as traditional and ancient rivalries (such the shia-sunni schism).

 

https://scholar.google.co.uk/scholar?q=causes+terrorism

 

 

 

By that logic, oppression and injustice caused 100's of sexual assaults (24 rapes) and numerous thefts in Germany on New Year's Eve 2015/2016.

 

I'm not sure what logic that is.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

Are you having an episode of lacking any comprehension whatsoever? Can you answer my question which book are you referring to instead of asking me an idiotic question if I'm a terrorist?

 

 

 

I despise the bible "morality" as well. I'm an atheist. The difference is that nobody stoned anybody to death this year according to the bible laws and Saudi Arabia alone behaded houndreds of people in the last 2 years judged according to Sharia law for non lethal offences - including gays, apostasy, victims of rape, etc.

 

Look up how many people die anually in Sharia ruled countries. Go to Riyadh to see the executions youreslf. And most of all - stop kidding youreself.

 

It's not my fault you didn't get the joke.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

I despise the bible "morality" as well. I'm an atheist. The difference is that nobody stoned anybody to death this year according to the bible laws and Saudi Arabia alone behaded houndreds of people in the last 2 years judged according to Sharia law for non lethal offences - including gays, apostasy, victims of rape, etc.

 

 

Citation?

 

What I found was that...

 

 

 

Saudi Arabia has executed 152 people in 2015, which according to Amnesty International is the highest recordednumber since 1995. Most executions are carried out by beheading, sometimes in public. The vast majority are for murder and drug crimes, but Saudi courts occasionally hand down death sentences for other “crimes” such as apostasy and sorcery.

 

 

https://www.hrw.org/news/2015/11/23/saudi-arabia-poet-sentenced-death-apostasy

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

It's not my fault you didn't get the joke.

 

I will only let this fly because I have work to do right now.

 

.

 

I am glad you deleted your post. You know that it was wrong to post an assertion like the one you did and you know it was only meant to infuriate me. I thank again for deleting it.

 

 

Citation?

 

 

 

You know what...install a TOR network client and look up films and photos of innocent people being beheded, raped and tortured beyond belief. You'l have your citation then.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

... nobody stoned anybody to death this year according to the bible laws...

 

 

 

The National Liberation Front of Tripura (NLFT), is a rebel group that seeks the secession of Tripura, North-East India, and is a proscribed terrorist organization in India. Group activities have been described as Christian terrorists engaging in terrorist violence motivated by their Christian beliefs.[43][44][45] The NLFT includes in its aims the forced conversion of all tribespeople in Tripura to Christianity.[46] The NLFT says that it is fighting not only for the removal of Bengali immigrants from the tribal areas, "but also for the tribal areas of the state to become overtly Christian", and "has warned members of the tribal community that they may be attacked if they do not accept its Christian agenda".

 

 

 

 

 

Anti-balaka groups destroyed almost all mosques in the Central African Republic unrest.[21][22] In 2014, Amnesty International reported several massacres committed by the Anti-balaka against Muslim civilians, forcing thousands of Muslims to flee the country.[23][24] Other sources report incidents of Muslims being cannibalized.[25][26]

 

 

 

 

 

 

Maronite Christian militias perpetrated the Karantina and Tel al-Zaatar massacres of Palestinians and Lebanese Muslims during Lebanon's 1975–1990 civil war. The 1982 Sabra and Shatila massacre, which targeted unarmed Palestinian refugees for rape and murder, was considered to be genocide by the United Nations General Assembly.[83] A British photographer present during the incident said that "People who committed the acts of murder that I saw that day were wearing [crucifixes] and were calling themselves Christians."[84]

 

 

 

 

 

 

The Lord's Resistance Army, a guerrilla army, was engaged in an armed rebellion against the Ugandan government in 2005. It has been accused of using child soldiers and of committing numerous crimes against humanity; including massacres, abductions, mutilation, torture, rape, and using forced child labourers as soldiers, porters, and sex slaves.[43][85] A quasi-religious movement that mixes some aspects of Christian beliefs with its own brand of spiritualism,[86][87] it is led by Joseph Kony, who proclaims himself the spokesperson of God and a spirit medium, primarily of the "Holy Spirit" which the Acholi believe can represent itself in many manifestations.[88][88][89][90] LRA fighters wear rosary beads and recite passages from the Bible before battle.[86][91][92][93][94][95]

 

 

 

 

 

 

After 1981, members of groups such as the Army of God began attacking abortion clinics and doctors across the United States.[98][99][100] A number of terrorist attacks were attributed by Bruce Hoffman to individuals and groups with ties to the Christian Identity and Christian Patriot movements, including the Lambs of Christ.[101] A group called Concerned Christians was deported from Israel on suspicion of planning to attack holy sites in Jerusalem at the end of 1999; they believed that their deaths would "lead them to heaven".[102][103]

Eric Robert Rudolph carried out the Centennial Olympic Park bombing in 1996, as well as subsequent attacks on an abortion clinic and a lesbian nightclub. Michael Barkun, a professor at Syracuse University, considers Rudolph to likely fit the definition of a Christian terrorist. James A. Aho, a professor at Idaho State University, argues that religious considerations inspired Rudolph only in part.[104]

Terrorism scholar Aref M. Al-Khattar has listed The Covenant, The Sword, and the Arm of the Lord (CSA), Defensive Action, the Montana Freemen, and some "Christian militia" as groups that "can be placed under the category of far-right-wing terrorism" that "has a religious (Christian) component".[105]

In 1996 three men—Charles Barbee, Robert Berry and Jay Merelle—were charged with two bank robberies and bombings at the banks, a Spokane newspaper, and a Planned Parenthood office in Washington State. The men were anti-Semitic Christian Identity theorists who believed that God wanted them to carry out violent attacks and that such attacks would hasten the ascendancy of the Aryan race.[106]

In 2011, analyst Daryl Johnson of the United States Department of Homeland Security said that the Hutaree Christian militia movement possessed more weapons than the combined weapons holdings of all Islamic terror defendants charged in the US since the September 11 attacks.[107]

In 2015, Robert Doggart, a 63 year old mechanical engineer, was indicted for solicitation to commit a civil rights violation by intending to damage or destroy religious property after communicating that he intended to amass weapons to attack a Muslim enclave in Delaware County, New York.[108] Doggart, a member of several private militia groups, communicated to an FBI source in a phone call that he had an M4 carbine with "500 rounds of ammunition" that he intended to take to the Delaware County enclave, along with a handgun, molotov cocktails and a machete. The FBI source recorded him saying "if it gets down to the machete, we will cut them to shreds."[109] Doggart had previously travelled to a site in Dover, Tennessee described in chain emails as a "jihadist training camp", and found that the claims were wrong. Doggart pleaded guilty in an April plea bargain stating he had “willfully and knowingly sent a message in interstate commerce containing a true threat” to injure someone. The plea bargain was struck down by a judge because it did not contain enough facts to constitute a true threat.[110][111] Doggart stood as an independent candidate in Tennessee's 4th congressional district, losing with 6.4% of the vote.[112] None of the charges against him are terrorism related.[113][114][115][116]

The November 2015 Colorado Springs Planned Parenthood shooting, in which three were killed and nine injured, was described as "a form of terrorism" by Colorado Governor John Hickenlooper.[117] The gunman, Robert Lewis Dear, was described as a "delusional" man[118] who had written on a cannabis internet forum that "sinners" would "burn in hell" during the end times, and had also written about smoking marijuana and propositioned women for sex.[119][120] He had praised the Army of God, saying that attacks on abortion clinics are "God's work."[121] Deer's ex-wife said he had put glue on a lock of a Planned Parenthood clinic, and in court documents for their divorce she said "He claims to be a Christian and is extremely evangelistic, but does not follow the Bible in his actions. He says that as long as he believes he will be saved, he can do whatever he pleases. He is obsessed with the world coming to an end."

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

You know what...install a TOR network client and look up films and photos of innocent people being beheded, raped and tortured beyond belief. You'l have your citation then.

I provided a citation refuting your assertion. Is it too much to ask that you provide one to support your assertion?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_terrorism

I provided a citation refuting your assertion. Is it too much to ask that you provide one to support your assertion?

 

You managed to copy/paste a milion links from wiki. You refuted nothing. I'm not sure if you even know what you are trying to refute.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

You managed to copy/paste a milion links from wiki. You refuted nothing. I'm not sure if you even know what you are trying to refute.

For someone who is so touchy about how people speak to him, you are quick to be rude to me.

 

My first link showed the vast majority of executions in Saudi Arabia were for murder and drug crimes (based on 152 executions in 2015). You claimed there were hundreds over the past couple years based on Sharia law.

 

You also claimed no one was stoned to death according to Bible laws, but I showed many people being killed (granted, not "stoned") according to Bible laws.

 

If you don't want to debate this, just say so. No need to get your undies in a twist.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

×
×
  • Create New...

Important Information

We have placed cookies on your device to help make this website better. You can adjust your cookie settings, otherwise we'll assume you're okay to continue.