MigL

I'm gonna hate myself in the morning for quoting right-wing influencers and MAGA supporters, but they do illustrate the difference. " Facts don't care about your feelings, nor what you think is true." And people like RFK Jr. who snorted coke off toilet seats, claimed that a worm ate part of his brain, who dropped a dead bear in Central Park and chopped the head off a whale,, actually thinks that no vaccine is safe and effective to be the truth. Or the senile, vindictive moron that Americans call President who actually believes he won the 2020 Presidential election; after being laughed out of Court countless times due to lack of evidence, he still claims it to be true. The facts, however, say otherwise. Notice the not-so-subtle difference. Facts are immutable; truth ? ... not so much.

Perfect example. Virtue has differing meaning to different people ... and so does truth. Another good example. Headaches, or inflammation due to headaches, do show up in MRIs or CT scans, so they can be verified. The word 'like' is purely subjective, and cannot be verified, as it is a subjective belief, which can and often does change; a personal 'truth', if you will.

That is exactly my point. Anything not verifiable is a belief. Facts do have qualifiers. Or to put it in a way 'closer' to your thinking ... What is the value of Pi ? Or, since we don't know the exact value, is it not a fact that Pi*D is the circumference of a circle ?

I don't see how that follows. What is a truthful fact ? And what would then be an untrue fact ??? If I say something is 'true', you can say that it isn't. If I say something is a 'fact', either you, or I, can verify it and there cannot be disagreement. But maybe that is just my personal usage of the two words.

Yes. That was their 'truth'. But it is, was, and will always be a fact that Venus is one body. No matter what is believed to be true by those particular people. ( lack of facts does not make them untrue, but truth is not necessarily factual )

Yes, of course. The common perception is that once a certain mass density is exceeded, collapse to a BH is required. But, mass being a specific form of energy, whenever a certain energy density is exceeded ( as in a hot, dense, radiation-dominated, early universe ), collapse to a BH is also required. In GR, there is no mass term contributing to curvature, only energy-momentum, but it was always thought energy density variations would have been very small ( arising from Quantum fluctuations in the even earlier, causally connected universe ), but recent evidence from large space-based telescopes hints that the massive BHs at the centers of galaxies may have formed first ( as in your Quasar example ) as 'seeds' for subsequent galaxy formation.

This would be true of the English side as well, and the Trump - Starmer relationship. However, the American President and his fascist cronies might prefer Argentina, with their past immigration policies favoring NAZIs. ( a low blow considering the World Cup is supposedly apolitical )

Second Falklands war coming up on Wednesday. Quite a bit of L Messi's magic is gone, while J Bellingham is really starting to shine. ( though FIFA and the officiating seem to favor the reigning World Champions so far ). England seems to step up to the challenge, depending on who they play against. All their games have been nail-biters, and they only do the bare minimum to win after making you sweat a while. Let's hope they keep it up; maybe it is coming home.

Waste of time. Only thing that will make a difference is getting out and voting to limit these bastard's power in November, voting them out of office in '28, and then prosecuting them to the full extent of the law ( send them to CECOT in El Salvador ).

If only Egypt had been able to defend like England did; even being a man down. Ploughing the field is hard work; you've gotta put in the effort.

Spoke too soon. Argentina scored three goals in the last 15 min. Their last goal is a little controversial, due to fouling in the build up ( which similarly denied Egypt's 3rd goal ), so there have been some 'confrontations' and complaints, after and during the last few minutes of play. Luck seems to still be with Argentina.

So now we have 'quarters' ? I guess the hydration ( commercial ) breaks have forced it on us. Capitalism and corruption; each enables the other.

Not this year. Brazil is gone, and Argentina is behind 1 - 0 to Egypt after 60 min. with an Egyptian second goal just disallowed due to a foul in the build-up. And now Egypt up 2 - 0 over Argentina at 67 min !

Cheating never pays off. So actually, a huge victory, as D Trump will find out in November.

AI has finally found a purpose ... ( I hope this doesn't merge with the LLM thread )

Maybe England should petition FIFA to postpone J Quansah's suspension for his carding. They would have to, otherwise D Trump's, and G Infantino's, corruption would be fully exposed. Apologies for going off topic and causing thread splitting. But now that we're on the topic of D Trump's corruption ... NYT reports that D Trump's Cryptocurrency 'meme coin' lost an estimated 3.8 Billion ( ! ! ) for the one million suckers, er ... MAGA supporting investors, that bought them. D Trump's return on investment, however, is almost 700 Million, of the estimated 2.2 Billion he made last year ( by his admission, so it must be much, much more ). P T Barnum was wrong. Its not 'a sucker born every minute'. Rather 'a million suckers to be fleeced every time D Trump is elected'.

I'm glad you realize that you are using one fantasy to support another fantasy.

Both Norway and Argentina can be beaten ( as well as Portugal, the US or Belgium ) Spain and France may pose bigger challenges, and England should worry about having to face them.

Holy crap ! England 3 - 2 Mexico. That was a tense 2nd half. One man down, it was ugly, but they did it. Is it finally coming home ?

Don't get me wrong, I have a lot of respect for F Balogun, and he should be proud of his efforts so far , in this World Cup. But incidents do happen, and he could have broken the other player's ankle through a careless, if unintentional, challenge. The red was deserved, as per VAR, and the second review a day later. The team has gotten where they have through hard work and skill, but D Trump is making the team look bad, because he is used to cheating to get his 'wins', and now the USMNT is perceived the same ( there were already 'fix' rumors ). Besides, the USMNT will be facing Belgium, and from what I've seen so far, they shouldn't have a problem dispatching the Belgians. D Trump didn't need to meddle, and make every one look bad. But it's halftime for the England - Mexico game, and, thanks to J Bellingham, England lead 2 - 1. The last 15 min. have been very exciting. With Italy MiA for the last three World Cups, and Canada having exited already, all I have left to wear is my white jersey with the St. George's cross on the shoulder. Go England !

Maybe if he stopped micro-managing everything and paid attention to his briefings, instead of getting his corrupt friends involved in vanity projects, so they can fleece millions from American taxpayers ... In breaking news, the American football ( soccer ) player, F Balogun, was red carded during his last game. The ref was originally going to dismiss the infraction, saying it wasn't intentional, but VAR disagreed. Stepping on someone's ankle can result in serious injury; so he was given a red and a one game suspension. Now, the Canadian midfielder I Kone had his leg broken in two places during their game against Qatar, and no one would argue that was intentional, yet the qatari player received a red card and a 5 game suspension. F Balogun's carding/suspension was subsequently reviewed again by FIFA, and the suspension upheld. Yet the latest news indicate that D Trump personally called his corrupt buddy, G Infantino, and as if by magic, F Balogun's suspension has been lifted and he will be playing. No explanation given, other than FIFA has the right to do it. I have nothing against the players, as I'm sure they are doing their best, but this stinks to high heaven, and makes them look bad; as if they need to 'cheat' to get results, instead of hard work and skill. But I guess that's how D Trump operates ( witness all the cheating involving mid-terms ). It's official then. D Trump and his gang of corrupt degenerates ( including G Infantino ) have fu*ked up everything he's involved with, including the World Cup.

Why does every thread about Trump and his Presidency turn into a 'Political Humor' topic ? This whole Administration has been a ( bad ) joke.

Can't we just avoid all the drama by saying All facts are truths; not all truths are facts. Due to the vicissitudes of the English language, it seems 'truth' can have several interpretations, and as we see in this discussion, makes the communication of the idea somewhat difficult. Facts, on the other hand, are 'self defined', and all are forced ( by the definition ) to agree on interpretation.

In the case of any disagreement between a speaker and a listener as to whether a statement is true, or not, verification is usually established by fact.

The ref calls his truth. VAR establishes the facts. ( although I object to the disallowed Croatia goal against Portugal, last night )