Can ionized atoms freeze?

[studiot]

korfezli, you probably won't like this but it needs to be said.

 

It is clear from your answers that you are suffering from some basic and fundamental misunderstandings about the elementary science of matter, whether you call it Chemistry, Physics or Materials Science.

 

Thank you for telling us your objective, that is very useful.

Using your imagination to think about what you already know is great and to be encouraged.

But it will take you in the wrong direction if you are using the wrong signposts.

 

You need a better understanding of what atoms, molecules states of matter really are, because yours are unfortunately all mixed up.

Also you need to be clear about the meaning of 'splitting the atom'

 

No chemical process will accomplish this splitting.

Ionisation is not a route to this goal.

Splitting the atom means splitting the nucleus, which is an entirely different thing.

That results in new atoms that did not exist before the splitting.

 

 

So listening to John and Sensei (they are experts in this area) will help you correct this and move on.

 

I don't know if they can recommend some source material at the appropriate level for you but get that under your belt and you can carry on dreaming, perhaps successfully next time.

 

[John Cuthber]

in gas state oxygen atoms can be ionized with a ionisator

So what?

 

The truth is that they answer to your question is no.

Because they repel eachother.

That's it.

There's nothing more to say.

[korfezli]

i do not think everyone understands the question, what is mentioned. I really repeated several times.

 

It is now step by step: the point now is, will they freeze at the same time. The other splitting issue is different i agree.

[studiot]

 

i do not think everyone understands the question, what is mentioned. I really repeated several times.

 

It is now step by step: the point now is, will they freeze at the same time. The other splitting issue is different i agree.

 

 

We understand all too well and we really are trying to help

 

 

So tell us what you mean by 'freeze'

If you say turn solid then please explain what you understand a solid to be.

[korfezli]

Yes and there we come to a much difficult era.

 

Because when molecules become hard, solid, are all atoms frozen, solid? > for gases

Edited May 8, 2016 by korfezli

[studiot]

Molecules don't 'become hard', whatever that means.

 

Hardness (or softness) is a characteristic of a solid, but it is what is known as a 'bulk property'.

 

You need to distinguish carefully between properties that belong to individual particles and properties that belong to (and only arise with) vast collections of individual particles.

Bulk properties arise when particles act together to produce properties they cannot have individually.

 

(Something like that also applies to humans and some animals)

[korfezli]

"If you have water molecule in gaseous state,

after heating it significantly,

you will turn it to gaseous hydrogen and gaseous oxygen,

after heating it even more,

you will turn them to hydrogen plasma and oxygen plasma state."

 

ok it becomes liquid again and becomes solid later on, thanks.

 

Still i have no answer to the ionization issue of the molecule in gas state, for example h2o in gas state. When you ionize the oxygen atom and freeze the molecule rapidly it will become liquid you say. So no other phenomenon will occur, i doubt it is the same. The ionization process activates the elektrons and the elektrons activate the protons, so maybe a different liquid form will be gained, like rainwater and damp visible for the human eye.

I understand that at the boiling point all atoms reach a point of changing. For myself i can imagine that the force needed, the temperature needed to reach this point, can change when oxygen atoms are ionized with a ionisator. Maybe you just need -100 refrigator instead of -300 for example.

Edited May 8, 2016 by korfezli

[John Cuthber]

You really do not have the background to understand this.

An ionised atom is not, in general, an equilibrium state so it doesn't have a properly defined temperature. How could it have a melting point?

[korfezli]

so it will not freeze?

 

How can a polar molecule h2o freeze then?

 

It is really complicated like this.

 

So a molecule in a refrigrator,

an ionized molecule,for example

-1000 Celsius,

 

will not reach his boiling point?

Edited May 8, 2016 by korfezli

[hypervalent_iodine]

so it will not freeze?

 

How can a polar molecule h2o freeze then?

 

It is really complicated like this.

By forming an extremely ordered and regular lattice structure, supported by hydrogen bonding. I would encourage you do some background reading on basic chemistry and physics. You are muddling very fundamental concepts here, and confusing yourself in the process.

[korfezli]

- ions cannot freeze, conclusion. Perhaps.

[swansont]

so it will not freeze?

 

How can a polar molecule h2o freeze then?

 

It is really complicated like this.

 

So a molecule in a refrigrator,

an ionized molecule,for example

-1000 Celsius,

 

will not reach his boiling point?

Polar molecules can still attract. Unlike a collection of ions of the same sign of charge.

 

Freezing happens gradually, as can easily be observed.

 

Ionization does not correspond to a particular atom in a molecule, so speaking of ionizing the oxygen makes no sense.

[korfezli]

you metion that when an ionizator ionizes a molecule containing oxygen atoms, all atoms are ionized.

 

But the rule is, only oxygen atoms can be ionized, with the technology nowadays.

[swansont]

How can you tell that it's the Oxygen that has been ionized?

[John Cuthber]

But the rule is, only oxygen atoms can be ionized, with the technology nowadays.

That's just not true. Where did you get that idea?

[korfezli]

Yeah indeed i had read that before somewhere. Maybe things change fast . I think Wikipedia.

 

But to come to the point, when an air ionizer is used, oxygen will ionize. If the molecule is h2o gas in the air. I thought only oxygen would ionize. There are different types of ionizators and the needle is of different material for types of atoms.

 

Still both atoms are different, so you would expect that one of them ionizes first. Oxygen is +/- 15 timesbigger in structure than hydrogen.

 

If it is true that all atoms must become ionized, then my method will not work. Because I thought when you ionize the oxygen, it will not freeze and the hydrogen atoms would freeze after a while, under circumstances, maybe very cold, colder then now possible.

Edited May 10, 2016 by korfezli

[John Cuthber]

In a ,molecule like water the electrons that are removed when you ionise it are "shared" between oxygen and hydrogen.

So, if you remove them you have ionised the molecule. You have not ionized oxygen or hydrogen.

It really would be better if you started at the bottom and learned some science.

This thread is like trying to explain the architecture of a city skyscraper to someone who has read a book about bricks.

[korfezli]

I am not the person who sets science. But i am not the person who Always accepts things like scientist believe. So in my opinion every new approach should have to be researched before you can deny the hypothesis.

[swansont]

I am not the person who sets science. But i am not the person who Always accepts things like scientist believe. So in my opinion every new approach should have to be researched before you can deny the hypothesis.

That's not how it works. You have to show your hypothesis has merit. It is not "accepted until proven wrong"; you have to provide really good reasons to accept it as valid.

[korfezli]

You are very subjective now. We do not have to agree but I think all information is present at this topic. This topic is nice to read for beginners, seniors and even for the retards. Because the elements are described and a scientific approach is argued. With new things to discuss.

[John Cuthber]

You are very subjective now. We do not have to agree but I think all information is present at this topic. This topic is nice to read for beginners, seniors and even for the retards. Because the elements are described and a scientific approach is argued. With new things to discuss.

It is true that this thread contains much information; but virtually none of it is from you.

The topic would be pointless and confusing reading for a beginner- mainly because it's full of errors and misunderstandings- all on your part)

 

Also, I guess it's a linguistic thing, but referring to people as "retards" is not socially acceptable.

[korfezli]

thanks everyone, maybe later on a different topic

[Phi for All]

This topic is nice to read for beginners, seniors and even for the retards.

 

!

Moderator Note

It's against our rules to use words that disparage any group of people. There are retarded people in the world, and we'd prefer they don't have to fight more battles because of discrimination. Please don't call anyone a "retard" here.

[Enthalpy]

Trying to extinguish Magnesium with water: [YouTube link in the original post]

 

Hey Sensei, you should try once to light a piece of magnesium, so you know how difficult this is.

But to extinguish it - provided you achieved to light it - just wait a few seconds, it happens naturally.