1x0 Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Information about a physical unit´s lenght of existence. Exist since something is out there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 It is a physical dimension, equivalent to the spatial dimensions. You need four coordinates to arrange to meet someone: x, y, z, t; or latitude, longitude, altitude and when. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 You need four coordinates to arrange to meet someone: x, y, z, t; or latitude, longitude, altitude and when. True. The coordinates though subjectively set. We do not know the exact size of space and the exact starting point of time. The coordinates still works good until we work in the same frame we set. How can I imagine time as a physical dimension? Does information is a dimension? Does time is more then information about space or other physical entities we measure with it? Did space time energy matter and information started at the same time? Can any of this physical conceptions exist without one another? Does space and energy/matter are different dimensions? I mean space still expands with the existing singularities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 The coordinates though subjectively set. We do not know the exact size of space and the exact starting point of time. Well, the coordinates are relative (but not subjective; they can be measured objectively.). How can I imagine time as a physical dimension? Study some physics? Does information is a dimension? No. Did space time energy matter and information started at the same time? No one knows. We don't even know if they "started". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 Well, the coordinates are relative (but not subjective; they can be measured objectively.). Ok. Thx Study some physics? No. Have studied biophysics 15 years ago. That does not count here. What is information then? Does information is a physical entity? How does information belongs to the system? I mean our genetic code is a heritable collection of information. If we wanna follow the origin of information it goes back until the introduction of the Laws of Nature. Or? Related to your understanding and experience If you would have to name one as first which one would be that and why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 ...How can I imagine time as a physical dimension? Does information is a dimension? Does time is more then information about space or other physical entities we measure with it? When scientists say time is 'physical' they mean it relates or pertains to physics; it doesn't mean it should be thought of as material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 When scientists say time is 'physical' they mean it relates or pertains to physics; it doesn't mean it should be thought of as material. I am aware of that thx. What does time provide more than information? Which properties time has? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 What is information then? There are many definitions of information, depending on the context. The definition in quantum theory is different from that in communication theory, for example. Does information is a physical entity? No. It is a measurement of some property of a system. What does time provide more than information? That doesn't make much sense. It is bit like asking which is better: potatoes or voltage. Which properties time has? The same properties that distance has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 There are many definitions of information, depending on the context. The definition in quantum theory is different from that in communication theory, for example. I am aware of that. What is your understanding? No. It is a measurement of some property of a system. That sounds like the observation. Information is the result of the measurement or observation. But that information is part of the observed system. How can we evaluate the contained information? Could binary systems describe complex systems like information and its correlation to the physical system? If not the binary system which approach is the best to make sense of information? Why do you think information is not a physical entity/property/unit of the system when we can observe the evolution of it, like the development and evolution of DNA in the past 4 billion years? We can also manipulate and attach information to other physical systems like in computers and information technologies. That doesn't make much sense. It is bit like asking which is better: potatoes or voltage. I do not see more properties of time than the information it provides of the inspected physical system. I am just curious of your understanding. You said that time is a dimension. I would be interested how you mean that. The same properties that distance has. Could you describe this in detail how you mean it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 You said that time is a dimension. I would be interested how you mean that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 It is a physical dimension, equivalent to the spatial dimensions. You need four coordinates to arrange to meet someone: x, y, z, t; or latitude, longitude, altitude and when. This is your quote Strange. I wonder how you mean it. Can you describe your understanding? My question: Which properties time has? Your answer: The same properties that distance has. I asked how you mean it. Something is strange Strange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 This is your quote Strange. I wonder how you mean it. Can you describe your understanding? I asked how you mean it. Something is strange Strange. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension#Time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension#Time Interesting. I still do not see more properties of time than the infromation it provides about the physical entities. I see though the thought why Einstein use it as a spacetime, I mean time is ticking ever since space exist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Interesting. I still do not see more properties of time than the infromation it provides about the physical entities. I see though the thought why Einstein use it as a spacetime, I mean time is ticking ever since space exist. What properties are you expecting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 7, 2015 Author Share Posted March 7, 2015 What properties are you expecting? None. I don´t think there is any other. I am interested about the understanding of the community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gees Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 Strange and StringJunky; Never having studied science or especially physics, I always found the idea of "dimensions" intimidating. There are just too many movies and TV shows that attach a "woo woo" factor to the word dimensions, so I thought that I could not understand it and didn't even try. But after reading this thread, I find that it is very simple. Just as I would measure my living room from East to West, then from North to South to find it's "dimensions" to buy a new carpet, science measures time and space to learn it's dimensions. Finding a spot on a line requires only one measure, so a line is one dimensional; measuring for carpet requires two measures, so a flat surface is two dimensional; measuring my desk requires three measures, height, width, and depth, so an object is three dimensional. Since the Earth is an object, meeting someone at a specific time and place would mean that I need another measure, time, in order to accomplish this, so time is the fourth dimension. I feel like an idiot not already knowing this; nonetheless, I thank you for making it so clear. Time started at the Big Bang because we have no way to measure prior to the Big Bang. Now there is quantum physics that can measure up to ten dimensions, but these measures are derived from math, so I will never understand them. But at least now I know what they are talking about -- it is just more ways to measure. Thanks, Gee 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 7, 2015 Share Posted March 7, 2015 None. I don´t think there is any other. I am interested about the understanding of the community. Well, then, in physics time is what is measured by a clock. It's the phase of an oscillation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 @Gees: an excellent summary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 It is a physical dimension, equivalent to the spatial dimensions. You need four coordinates to arrange to meet someone: x, y, z, t; or latitude, longitude, altitude and when. Wouldn´t we need to know the speed of the object for the arrange a meeting? I mean I can set a time but without the speed of the objects the meeting would be unlikely. Could you explain the dimensional properties of time because I still just see the information it provides about space. Does it mean that information is a different dimension? Well, then, in physics time is what is measured by a clock. It's the phase of an oscillation. That phase of the oscillation is a fraction of spacetime. Do you think time itself provides something more than information? Can we call it a dimension? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel123456 Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 Strange and StringJunky; Never having studied science or especially physics, I always found the idea of "dimensions" intimidating. There are just too many movies and TV shows that attach a "woo woo" factor to the word dimensions, so I thought that I could not understand it and didn't even try. But after reading this thread, I find that it is very simple. Just as I would measure my living room from East to West, then from North to South to find it's "dimensions" to buy a new carpet, science measures time and space to learn it's dimensions. Finding a spot on a line requires only one measure, so a line is one dimensional; measuring for carpet requires two measures, so a flat surface is two dimensional; measuring my desk requires three measures, height, width, and depth, so an object is three dimensional. Since the Earth is an object, meeting someone at a specific time and place would mean that I need another measure, time, in order to accomplish this, so time is the fourth dimension. I feel like an idiot not already knowing this; nonetheless, I thank you for making it so clear. Time started at the Big Bang because we have no way to measure prior to the Big Bang. Now there is quantum physics that can measure up to ten dimensions, but these measures are derived from math, so I will never understand them. But at least now I know what they are talking about -- it is just more ways to measure. Thanks, Gee That is not so simple. From this description it looks like all dimensions are independent from each other. You can have a line as long as you wish, a surface as small or large, no matter what. You can have a meeting at no specific time, everything looks possible. But that is not really like this because there is a relation between distance and time. There exist in physics a constant that is equal to a certain amount of space (distance) divided by a certain amount of time. It is C the Speed Of Light. This is really weird. See it this way: Following your description, you have a line that you have measured 1 meter long. Then you measure another line, perpendicular to the first one, also 1 meter long. The multiplication of one meter by one meter gives one square meter that you described as 2 dimensional. So you have transformed 2 one dimensional objects into a two dimensional object. O.K. Now, take back you one meter long. What do you have to do in order to obtain speed? The operation is the following: you must divide your 1 dimensional line by another 1 dimensional object: Time. So you obtain speed by dividing meters by seconds, and you get a value of how many dimensions? I hope you are completely confused now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 (edited) But that is not really like this because there is a relation between distance and time. No more than there is a relationship between width and length. The whole point about dimensions is that they are independent. Wouldn´t we need to know the speed of the object for the arrange a meeting? That is just the way in which the coordinates are changing. The easy way is to define one of the people as stationary and give the other person their coordinates in that frame of reference. This is what we usually do: when we arrange an appointment, we don't consider the fact that the Earth is moving round the Sun, or the Sun round the galaxy, etc. Similarly, you could arrange to meet someone in seat C5 on the 4th deck of ship at 4pm. You don't care that the ship is moving. So, in summary: no. Could you explain the dimensional properties of time because I still just see the information it provides about space. The spacetime of our universe is usually interpreted from a Euclidean space perspective, which regards space as consisting of three dimensions, and time as consisting of one dimension, the "fourth dimension". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime Does it mean that information is a different dimension? In physics and mathematics, the dimension of a mathematical space (or object) is informally defined as the minimum number of coordinates needed to specify any point within it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dimension Can you explain how "information" is used as a coordinate to define a point? Edited March 8, 2015 by Strange 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1x0 Posted March 8, 2015 Author Share Posted March 8, 2015 Can you explain how "information" is used as a coordinate to define a point? I would say as a reference point like zero and the frame I set to extract further information Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strange Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 I would say as a reference point like zero and the frame I set to extract further information That is not very clear. Say you want to specify the location of an event. Normally, we would specify this with 4 space-time coordinates. You seem to be saying that one or more of these can be replaced with "information". Can you be a bit more specific about how you would do this. For example, traditionally, we would use metres or miles to measure the spatial coordinates and hours/minutes/seconds to specify the time coordinate. What units will you use to specify the "information" coordinate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 That phase of the oscillation is a fraction of spacetime. I don't know what that means. Do you think time itself provides something more than information? I don't know what you mean by that. Does length provide something more than information? Can we call it a dimension? Yes, we can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MigL Posted March 8, 2015 Share Posted March 8, 2015 OK All dimensions are information. Information is not necessarily a dimension ( but it can be ). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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