Graeme M Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 Hi, I'm not sure if this is an OK question to ask here, but I'll take a shot. It's a question about how the Bible should be interpreted in terms of an afterlife. This isn't a religious question as such, nor am I seeking religious advice. I am not religious, but I AM curious about this particular question given it seems to me that many are quite unclear about what the Bible actually says about death. Presumably science is agnostic on the matter of death and an afterlife, particularly given the increasing evidence for a purely physical origin for consciousness and the stubborn resistance of the soul to be available for scrutiny. Anyway, what I am after is views on how current theology considers the matter. I did some research regarding Biblical references to death, afterlife and Heaven. I learned that there seem to be several broad interpretations, however the one that seems to carry most weight and which seems to accord with my own understanding is that of the dead ‘sleeping’ until the second resurrection. That is (and summarising somewhat loosely), the dead are dead and not conscious. There is no ‘soul’ that ascends to Heaven after death. The dead remain dead until Jesus descends to Earth a second time, at that time the dead will be judged and those who make the grade will be resurrected to live on a new Earth. Those who don’t make the grade will remain dead. Heaven is God’s place, and humans will do not go there. There is no Hell. I wonder if there are any theologians or generally knowledgeable people here who can comment - remember, I am interested in how modern theology views the Bible’s direction regarding death and afterlife, not necessarily what you might personally think. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tyme Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 There is no afterlife, heaven nor hell. Yet again this is coming from a person that does not believe in a god. To be honest I still wonder why people still trust the bible over our knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 25, 2015 Share Posted February 25, 2015 ! Moderator Note This isn't a "Do you believe in God?" thread. The OP specifically asked for modern biblical interpretations from a theological standpoint. Let's stay on topic, please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Graeme M Posted February 25, 2015 Author Share Posted February 25, 2015 (edited) Thank you mod. Exactly - I am not making any comment on whether there is or is not a God or afterlife. I was in discussion with religious friends who had a particular view, I did some research and was surprised to learn of the varying interpretations of the Bible's instruction about death and an afterlife. It seems many people have a completely inaccurate idea of what was said. I was especially surprised to read of original Greek/Hebrew words that have been translated in ways that may not reflect the original meaning. I read a lot of religious or theological articles but couldn't tell what the generally agreed interpretation is. For example, that the word for 'soul' did not mean soul as many today in the West would think of it. This interpretation seems to be a later notion - soul in the Bible's original context seems to have meant simply any living being, although there are places where it could have meant a part of the person separate from the physical. I suppose all I am really curious about is whether modern theologians accept the view that a person dies and is dead until the second Resurrection. That is, there is no special soul that exists independently of the body and which goes to Heaven. The afterlife as taught by the Bible is a purely physical event. My question is about interpretation, not truth or facts or scientific knowledge. Edited February 25, 2015 by Graeme M Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriously disabled Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) Those who believe in God or/and an afterlife are clearly delusional. Scientific evidence shows us very clearly that there is no such thing as a God and also no afterlife. The fact that no one ever came back to life after they have died is proof enough for me that there is no such thing as life-after-death or a God. Edited April 14, 2015 by seriously disabled -2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acme Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Thank you mod. Exactly - I am not making any comment on whether there is or is not a God or afterlife. I was in discussion with religious friends who had a particular view, I did some research and was surprised to learn of the varying interpretations of the Bible's instruction about death and an afterlife. It seems many people have a completely inaccurate idea of what was said. I was especially surprised to read of original Greek/Hebrew words that have been translated in ways that may not reflect the original meaning. I read a lot of religious or theological articles but couldn't tell what the generally agreed interpretation is.... My question is about interpretation, not truth or facts or scientific knowledge. There is no generally accepted exegesis of anything in the Bible and it's a snipe hunt to look for such a thing. Proverbs 18:2 A fool takes no pleasure in understanding, but only in expressing an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg H. Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 Those who believe in God or/and an afterlife are clearly delusional. Scientific evidence shows us very clearly that there is no such thing as a God and no afterlife. The fact that no one ever came back to life after they have died is proof enough for me that there is no such thing as life-after-death or a God. Scientific evidence does no such thing. All science can tell us is that there is no present scientific evidence for the existence of a divine supreme being. Since science cannot prove the non-existence of a thing, all we can safely say is that we cannot demonstrate the existence of such a being. Choosing to reject that existence based on the lack of evidence is rational, but in no way implies that science proved God doesn't exist. To put it more succinctly, Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 The fact that no one ever came back to life after they have died is proof enough for me that there is no such thing as life-after-death or a God. If you allow for consciousness to live on after the death of the body, the fact that no one ever came back may just mean 1) there's no way to, or 2) there's no need to, or 3) there's a very good reason not to. But there's no evidence that consciousness is separate from the mind. I know the Bible talks about Heaven as a final reward, but I've never related to the idea of a place where there's no strife or worries. I've come to believe we need obstacles in order to progress. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Willie71 Posted April 14, 2015 Share Posted April 14, 2015 (edited) The bible is vague and contradictory regarding heaven. There is no consensus. I was raised catholic, but outgrew it. They talk of eternal bliss. It's vague and contradictory on hell too. It's not clear if the soil is moved directly to heaven, he'll or purgatory, or if the soul waits with the body until judgement day. The texts are interpreted differently by different groups. Edited April 14, 2015 by Willie71 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 I think, fundamentally, the bible was intended to teach people how to live their lives; things like time, constantly evolving language and difficulties with translation leaves things open to almost any interpretation. If you can be content with your lot and live for now there’s no need to worry about death. If you understand this then heaven is here and now; hell is to live life without that understanding. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriously disabled Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) That's why I think that religion is so useless. Science can be revised and corrected in light of new evidence, religion on the other hand cannot. Those who are stuck on their faith will never want to admit that their religion is just wrong and that there is evidence to the contrary. Faith is just that, faith. It cannot be shown to be true or false. We believe what suits us and there are a great many beliefs to choose from. We can even go and construct our own personal belief. Edited April 15, 2015 by seriously disabled Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted April 15, 2015 Share Posted April 15, 2015 (edited) That's why I think that religion is so useless. Science can be revised and corrected in light of new evidence, religion on the other hand cannot. Those who are stuck on their faith will never want to admit that their religion is just wrong and that there is evidence to the contrary. Faith is just that, faith. It cannot be shown to be true or false. We believe what suits us and there are a great many beliefs to choose from. We can even go and construct our own personal belief. Maybe you should go back to post #3 and read the mod note “Do you believe in god” is not the topic. Besides, science is just another religion ‘in waiting’. What if the sum of our knowledge/science were to suddenly stop being developed and those that truly understood, disappeared? How long do you think it would take (given the understanding continual development brings) for the knowledge, few of us truly understand, to pass into a belief? Especially when the distorting factors of time and language starts to erode what little meaning is left. Edited April 15, 2015 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
metaman Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 Hi, just try to experience yourself if you can have a consciousness outside of the body. To do that, just try to fall asleep without thinking, in a thoughtless state, so that you remain awake as your body falls into sleep. Then you will see that your consciousness can exist and see things outside of your body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
seriously disabled Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 (edited) Metaman, There is no evidence that consciousness can exist outside our brains. That is because consciousness is probably created by the our brain and there is no evidence to prove otherwise. So when our brains dies (or stops working) as in brain death there is no evidence that our consciousness can survive in any form. There is also no shred of proof that there is life after death. I haven't seen anyone come back and tell me that there is something after this life. Like I said people believe what suits them but scientific evidence proves them wrong of course. Edited April 18, 2015 by seriously disabled -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypervalent_iodine Posted April 18, 2015 Share Posted April 18, 2015 ! Moderator Note metaman, please stop hijacking threads with such nonsense. seriously disabled, insulting other members is not tolerated here. Do not do it again. Do not respond to this note within the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsebox Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 There is no afterlife, heaven nor hell. Yet again this is coming from a person that does not believe in a god. To be honest I still wonder why people still trust the bible over our knowledge. Because our knowledge is limited. Real scientists know that they don't know. However, this concept is equally extended to the bible, so without any evidence to give credibility to the bible, theres no good reason to think its a source of knowledge. My personal theory is that its a steganographic representation of something. Maybe it was written by a network of alchemists to encode knowledge deemed heretical or otherwise posed a threat to the powers that were at the time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 There is also no shred of proof that there is life after death. I haven't seen anyone come back and tell me that there is something after this life. Like I said people believe what suits them but scientific evidence proves them wrong of course. Please provide the scientific evidence that there is no life after death. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypervalent_iodine Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 ! Moderator Note Another reminder to all members that this thread does not ask questions about whether or not there is a God or an afterlife. Please stick to the topic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 ... I wonder if there are any theologians or generally knowledgeable people here who can comment - remember, I am interested in how modern theology views the Bible’s direction regarding death and afterlife, not necessarily what you might personally think. I think if you followed the Bible from one end to the other you would end up with various ideas about whether there is an afterlife. Is it a type of reincarnation? Or is it a heavenly abode? Or the type of Hades where the deceased souls go? There would be many different viewpoints. Modern theology in my opinion has lost its hope in an afterlife. It is hard to define scientifically so it becomes difficult to convince people of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fuzzwood Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Those who believe in God or/and an afterlife are clearly delusional. Scientific evidence shows us very clearly that there is no such thing as a God and also no afterlife. The fact that no one ever came back to life after they have died is proof enough for me that there is no such thing as life-after-death or a God. Scientific cannot prove the non-existence of something. Kindly do not mutilate the scientific method with your unscientific opinions. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horsebox Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 Please provide the scientific evidence that there is no life after death. I had a confirmed out of body experience when I was a teenager, I recommend exploring lucid dreaming because the phenomena seem to go hand in hand (I thought I was just lucid dreaming until the next morning I stumbled upon evidence that it was actually an OBE). Its not proof of an afterlife, but it is proof that consciousness can exist independent of the body, or at least that our perception can work indepedently of our 5 sensory organs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted April 20, 2015 Share Posted April 20, 2015 I wonder if there are any theologians or generally knowledgeable people here who can comment - remember, I am interested in how modern theology views the Bibles direction regarding death and afterlife, not necessarily what you might personally think.According to the Catholic Church, you are judged immediately after death and will go to heaven if God wills it. 1022 Each man receives his eternal retribution in his immortal soul at the very moment of his death, in a particular judgment that refers his life to Christ: either entrance into the blessedness of heaventhrough a purification594 or immediately,595or immediate and everlasting damnation.596 (393, 1470) http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 According to the Catholic Church, you are judged immediately after death and will go to heaven if God wills it. http://www.usccb.org/beliefs-and-teachings/what-we-believe/catechism/catechism-of-the-catholic-church/epub/index.cfm That might be in their written teachings but do the modern theologians teach that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zapatos Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 That might be in their written teachings but do the modern theologians teach that? I'm not sure I understand your question. You acknowledge it is in their teachings, then ask if they teach that. It is from the catechism, "a summary of the principles of Christian religion in the form of questions and answers, used for the instruction of Christians." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted April 21, 2015 Share Posted April 21, 2015 I'm not sure I understand your question. You acknowledge it is in their teachings, then ask if they teach that. It is from the catechism, "a summary of the principles of Christian religion in the form of questions and answers, used for the instruction of Christians." I'm not sure I understand your question. You acknowledge it is in their teachings, then ask if they teach that. It is from the catechism, "a summary of the principles of Christian religion in the form of questions and answers, used for the instruction of Christians." I mean if you went to one of their services would they say that to your face? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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