studiot Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 What do you have in your basement? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertynews/10879282/Londons-trail-of-buried-diggers.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 What do you have in your basement? http://www.telegraph.co.uk/property/propertynews/10879282/Londons-trail-of-buried-diggers.html If you did I'm sure you'd hear it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arc Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I'm wondering how they get all the material out of the deep hole that the digger scoops up. A bucket conveyor of some type? I watched a excavator operator load his machine into the back of his ten yard dump truck. It was quite clever using the machines own hydraulic powered extensions to raise and then even push and pull it up over the back gate into the trucks dump box. Somewhat like this: I can't believe someone hasn't come up with a solution. It cost the extra time and material removal, plus labor to bury it. An excavator manufacturer should be able to design a combined system where the machine and conveyor are able to lower the machine down and back out of work sites. If the machine can use the conveyor frame for stability there should be an reasonable way of providing the energy and traction for lifting it out of the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 I think the news article (there were several if you Google) states not that it can't be done but that its costs more to lift the digger out than to buy a new one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acme Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I would think a couple mechanics could take one apart and end up with pieces small enough to be carried and/or winched up with a simple derrick. Given the cost of these machines I can't imagine leaving them is a savings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have been involved in a very similar situation (with a commercial building I looked after for bosses) - there were multiple reasons that the contractors wanted to do this; I go the impression the main ones being they were trying to palm cost on us but at the same time were trying to avoid taxes by altering their net asset line up ( I never thought hard enough about it to work out how). For a simple calc of cost to buy versus cost of removal I cannot believe it pays to leave it in the hole - but with various other changes to the sums I can see how it is easier to leave it there. Vast amounts of businesses now do things in amazing labyrinthine and counter-intuitive ways in order to avoid taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acme Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I have been involved in a very similar situation (with a commercial building I looked after for bosses) - there were multiple reasons that the contractors wanted to do this; I go the impression the main ones being they were trying to palm cost on us but at the same time were trying to avoid taxes by altering their net asset line up ( I never thought hard enough about it to work out how). For a simple calc of cost to buy versus cost of removal I cannot believe it pays to leave it in the hole - but with various other changes to the sums I can see how it is easier to leave it there. Vast amounts of businesses now do things in amazing labyrinthine and counter-intuitive ways in order to avoid taxesRoger that. I can also imagine the machine manufacturers saying/threatening a void warranty if a machine was disassembled and reassembled, unless by them at a high cost of course. Obviously they would want to sell new machines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arc Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 I would think a couple mechanics could take one apart and end up with pieces small enough to be carried and/or winched up with a simple derrick. Given the cost of these machines I can't imagine leaving them is a savings. Acme, over on Airport way by Ikea is the Aloft hotel. When I was working there a rental company was called by the general contractor and told to get their #%$& lift out of the job site because they were turning it over in the next few days. The original renter was no longer on site and the construction had enclosed it into a mechanical/electrical systems area below grade with a narrow doorway into a tight hallway. To get their 3x6x18 scissor lift out it took two techs 2 days to disassemble and carry it out. For the price of an excavator I would think giving it away for free with a one or two day window for removal would work. 8 guys with hand tools and a derrick like you said should do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acme Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Acme, over on Airport way by Ikea is the Aloft hotel. When I was working there a rental company was called by the general contractor and told to get their #%$& lift out of the job site because they were turning it over in the next few days. The original renter was no longer on site and the construction had enclosed it into a mechanical/electrical systems area below grade with a narrow doorway into a tight hallway. To get their 3x6x18 scissor lift out it took two techs 2 days to disassemble and carry it out. For the price of an excavator I would think giving it away for free with a one or two day window for removal would work. 8 guys with hand tools and a derrick like you said should do it.Yup. With all the machines being wasted in London it sounds like an opportunity for a startup business specializing in their removal from basements. Reassemble them for resale as well as reselling used or refurbished parts. In this vid 6 guys disassemble & reassemble a Jeep in 4 minutes. http://www.snotr.com/video/5516/assembling_and_disassembling_a_car_in_4_minutes/ . It's tough finding an exact quote for the JCB brand in the OP but I found similar diggers (we call them backhoes in the states) going for $40,000 US dollars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
imatfaal Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Acme / Arc - I think the economics are different in the west end of london than the west coast of the US In my building we used a completely different firm so I will never know - but I think if I had said "sure you sign over the asset to me and you can leave it there" they would have outright refused. It is a stupid stupid world we live in that allows people and corporations to play the rules and bury fine machinery; not because the cost of removing is higher than the value to the firm - but because tax dodges, silly loans for new plant, and other wheezes make it better for the overall bottom line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acme Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Acme / Arc - I think the economics are different in the west end of london than the west coast of the US In my building we used a completely different firm so I will never know - but I think if I had said "sure you sign over the asset to me and you can leave it there" they would have outright refused. It is a stupid stupid world we live in that allows people and corporations to play the rules and bury fine machinery; not because the cost of removing is higher than the value to the firm - but because tax dodges, silly loans for new plant, and other wheezes make it better for the overall bottom line. Greed by any other name and in any other place will stink as bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
arc Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 Yup. With all the machines being wasted in London it sounds like an opportunity for a startup business specializing in their removal from basements. Reassemble them for resale as well as reselling used or refurbished parts. In this vid 6 guys disassemble & reassemble a Jeep in 4 minutes. http://www.snotr.com/video/5516/assembling_and_disassembling_a_car_in_4_minutes/ . It's tough finding an exact quote for the JCB brand in the OP but I found similar diggers (we call them backhoes in the states) going for $40,000 US dollars. I was thinking when I was writing that last post that I would like to have seen what my dad's old WWII Army corps of engineers squad would had done to solve that problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted January 1, 2015 Share Posted January 1, 2015 It is a stupid stupid world we live in that allows people and corporations to play the rules and bury fine machinery; not because the cost of removing is higher than the value to the firm - but because tax dodges, silly loans for new plant, and other wheezes make it better for the overall bottom line. Yes, Google paying £11m Corporation Tax on £3.4bn UK revenues is a fine example of the level they'll stoop to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted January 1, 2015 Author Share Posted January 1, 2015 (edited) it sounds like an opportunity for a startup business specializing in their removal from basements. Actually the real moneyspinner business is providing diggers for placement in London basements. Edited January 1, 2015 by studiot 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 Actually the real moneyspinner business is providing diggers for placement in London basements. They might be useful in the afterlife. One potential idea was digging your way out of trouble. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonDie Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 There ought to be a lightweight ramp with enough compressive strength to support it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robittybob1 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 There ought to be a lightweight ramp with enough compressive strength to support it. And how are you going to get that into the basements? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MonDie Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 And how are you going to get that into the basements? Why you would carry it. Perhaps in pieces that snap together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michel123456 Posted January 2, 2015 Share Posted January 2, 2015 I wonder maybe insurance companies should worry having paid "damaged" machinery. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
studiot Posted January 2, 2015 Author Share Posted January 2, 2015 (edited) It sort of reminds of the the heyday of the oil industry when visiting Arab dignitaries would buy a roller ( + driver) to taxi them from Harrods to Heathrow and then hand the keys to the driver "It's yours" as they departed. Edited January 2, 2015 by studiot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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