Sleeping people

[Function]

Hello

 

Yesterday, I was wondering something:

 

• When a person falls in sleep in a complete dark, silent room (0 dB; let's assume the person's breathing and heart beating etc. doesn't make any sound). When he's in the REM-sleep, and suddenly, a sound is being produced, he will most likely wake up.
• When a person falls in sleep while the same (let's say, constant) sound is being played on the background, will he wake up (let's say in the REM-sleep) when the sound is suddenly deactivated??
  My guess would be: yes: the brains are used to the sound and I think that when they register a sudden change of the situation, they will wake you up?

(The same could be asked for light, instead of sound)

 

Thank you for answers or reasoning.

 

Sincerely

 

Function

[AndresKiani]

This is very interesting. Maybe its a survival thing that we have carried over from earlier in the history of homosapiens.

 

I've observed that dogs will react to the smallest noises that humans generally don't react to when they are sleeping. My dog will jump up at nearly any noise, even in his deepest sleeps.

 

In humans though we are not as cautious, we generally don't react as sharply, maybe because we are evolving out of it.

[Function]

This is very interesting. Maybe its a survival thing that we have carried over from earlier in the history of homosapiens.

 

I've observed that dogs will react to the smallest noises that humans generally don't react to when they are sleeping. My dog will jump up at nearly any noise, even in his deepest sleeps.

 

In humans though we are not as cautious, we generally don't react as sharply, maybe because we are evolving out of it.

 

Very interesting, indeed..

 

But the changement of situation in my 'problem' isn't really so small.. let's say that one can fall asleep while a constant, clear tone (doesn't matter to me what frequency) of 100 dB. Will he wake up (out of his REM-sleep) when the tone is suddenly stopped? (Let's assume that after the tone stopped, there is 0 dB of sound.)

 

(I assume one will wake up when this tone is suddenly played in a quiet environment in which one fell asleep)

Edited January 12, 2014 by Function

[AndresKiani]

I don't know.. that is much more complicated, I'm sure some physiatrists and neuroscientist have experimented with this.

 

Though...

What I have yet again observed, referring back to my dog again. I used to play him classical tunes when he was a puppy so that he would sleep soundly and not cry as much. He would go into very deep sleep. Though when I always would go to shut off the music, he would wake up as if something drastic had occurred.

Edited January 12, 2014 by AndresKiani

[Function]

Well, that, I see as a "yes" to my question

 

Now an additional problem: will the organism wake up if the environmental changement is being brought in slowly (e.g. +/-1 dB/min)?

If no: could the changement be implied faster when a human is the subject than when e.g. a dog or a cat is the subject?

In your case: would Andres's dog have waken up if he played the tune more silently over time?

Edited January 12, 2014 by Function

[AndresKiani]

I think humans in general, are evolving out of many of there animal instincts, due to the fact that we don't need them anymore for survival. So, maybe it works better on other animals and not homosapiens for that reason.

[Function]

I think humans in general, are evolving out of many of there animal instincts, due to the fact that we don't need them anymore for survival. So, maybe it works better on other animals and not homosapiens for that reason.

 

Why, yes, indeed! Wouldn't it be awesome if someone were to invent some sort of 'instinctive coefficient', between 0 and 1, meaning how responsive any organism would be to an environmental changement?

 

I'd love to see a proof of my presumption, for it's not really answered yet (will the human wake up if the sound is suddenly stopped?)

Edited January 12, 2014 by Function

[EdEarl]

There are several different stages of sleep, and people sleep lightly in some and soundly in others.

 

I once slept through a storm during which a tornado came within a mile of our house. My wife is a much lighter sleeper than I am.

 

We live in an area with relatively low risk of a tornado, compared to tornado alley. There have only been 4 deaths from a tornado within a 30 mile radius since 1950.

Edited January 12, 2014 by EdEarl

[John Cuthber]

I think humans in general, are evolving out of many of there animal instincts, due to the fact that we don't need them anymore for survival. So, maybe it works better on other animals and not homosapiens for that reason.

I doubt that we are evolving out of this trait.

The only human data I have heard about it are stories of mothers waking up because they heard the baby's breathing pattern change.

That's potentially a matter of enormous benefit to the baby and, since we all start out as babies, it's a benefit to the species as a whole.

 

Do you have any actual support for your suggestion that "humans in general, are evolving out of many of there animal instincts"?

It would be odd- we haven't been around for very long in evolutionary terms.

[Function]

There are several different stages of sleep, and people sleep lightly in some and soundly in others.

 

I once slept through a storm during which a tornado came within a mile of our house. My wife is a much lighter sleeper than I am.

 

Let's say, the average person.

 

The only human data I have heard about it are stories of mothers waking up because they heard the baby's breathing pattern change.

 

 

That's an amazing quality! However, could we assume that when it comes to our own safety, we are becoming less and less instinctive?

Edited January 12, 2014 by Function

[AndresKiani]

 

Why, yes, indeed! Wouldn't it be awesome if someone were to invent some sort of 'instinctive coefficient', between 0 and 1, meaning how responsive any organism would be to an environmental changement?

 

I'd love to see a proof of my presumption, for it's not really answered yet (will the human wake up if the sound is suddenly stopped?)

 

Well I don't know if we could re-invent these traits.

 

Over the years people have not relied on these traits for survival, so the individuals who weren't as strong when it came to those traits were able to survive either way and produce offspring, and over the many centuries, these natural animalist traits have become weaker and weaker in the general human population because we have not needed them to survive.

 

If we were to have needed them to survive, than people with stronger animalistic traits would have been the only ones surviving long enough to reproduce, each generation would have these strong animalist traits, and it would possibly grow stronger and stronger generation after generation.

Edited January 12, 2014 by AndresKiani

[John Cuthber]

You seem to have missed this bit of my earlier post

Do you have any actual support for your suggestion that "humans in general, are evolving out of many of there animal instincts"?

[Function]

You seem to have missed this bit of my earlier post

Do you have any actual support for your suggestion that "humans in general, are evolving out of many of there animal instincts"?

 

We don't fight right away when we don't like someone, we don't fight each other to 'win' females, perhaps our sense of smelling is less good.. etc.

 

So then the question is: is the human race an evolution, or a devolution?

 

But for now, let's keep it with my first question.

[John Cuthber]

"We don't fight right away when we don't like someone"

Nor do most animals

"we don't fight each other to 'win' females"

That's a matter of definition Both sexes, at some level, "compete".

"perhaps our sense of smelling is less good"

Than what?

Sure, it's less good than a dog's, but we are not in the same ecological niche as dogs. Our ancestors broadly speaking ate plants. You don't need to be able smell them from a long way off, because they don't move; also we have good eyesight.

Is there evidence that our sense of smell is much worse than, for example, a chimp's?

[Function]

http://fauquierent.blogspot.be/2012/05/why-do-humans-have-weak-sense-of-smell.html

 

Well, research from Karolinska Institutet have discovered that humans are the ONLY mammals whereby no new neurons are formed in the olfactory bulb after birth. Or if there is any, it is VERY little.

In all other mammals including apes, new neurons are constantly being formed in the olfactory bulb which might explain why all mammals with the exception of humans have a superb sense of smell.

 

So yes, in some way, I see that the human race is a devoluted form of the chimp.

[John Cuthber]

Well, if we are the apes with no sense of smell, is that evidence of ongoing evolution.

We are the nearly bald apes, but that doesn't indicate that we are changing; we were always the least hairy apes.

I'm still looking for evidence for the suggestion that "humans in general, are evolving out of many of there animal instincts"?

[Function]

Well, if we are the apes with no sense of smell, is that evidence of ongoing evolution.

We are the nearly bald apes, but that doesn't indicate that we are changing; we were always the least hairy apes.

I'm still looking for evidence for the suggestion that "humans in general, are evolving out of many of there animal instincts"?

 

Like you are waiting for your proof, I am still waiting for an answer to the original question: will he wake up?

However, I'm afraid I cannot deliver you the evidence you are seeking.

[iNow]

I am still waiting for an answer to the original question: will he wake up?

The only valid answer here is, "maybe."

[Function]

The only valid answer here is, "maybe."

 

I'm sure Pavlov wouldn't accept an answer like that, keeping out of notice that he formed the answers himself.

 

However, let me ask it elseway:

 

Would an average person, who wakes up in the middle of his rem-sleep when a sound of 100 dB is suddenly played (in an environment which is for the rest free of stimuli), wake up when he falls asleep when the 100 dB is already playing, and suddenly stops when he is in his rem-sleep, making the environment free of any stimuli?

[iNow]

Again, it depends on the person and similar relevant variables specific to that individual (how tired they were when falling asleep,whether or not they are fighting some illness or suffering from allergies, engaged in intense and extensive learning during the day or resting, historical sleep patterns and style, propensity for apnea, etc.).

 

Or, more succinctly... maybe.

[Function]

I know you're not going to like this answer, but:

 

with average, I mean: a man (no sexism, there're just more men than women) falling asleep every evening at 23:00 and waking up at 07:00 exactly; his biorithym is used to this pattern, making him not specially tired or more awake than usual; this person doesn't suffer from any illness (let's assume he's perfectly healthy) and goes to work every day without receiving any stressful tasks - the person is thus not subject to (remarkable) stress, no allergies to anything that is in his bedroom, and I guess you already know what about the propensity for apnea

 

I'm yet afraid this won't help you, nor me, in any matter, for the answer could yet not be given - an answer, other than "maybe".

 

(Geez.. my English sucks late in the evening...)

[davidivad]

here is a little more fuel for the fire...

 

if you stare at the sun, your brain compensates. the result is a visual artifact

the same can be said for your ears (ringing).

way back in the day, scientists built an ultrasonic device that played two different tones above hearing threshold. the difference in the two tones was equivelent to a voice speaking to you. while you could not hear the tones directly, you could percieve the difference in those tones.

the end result was someone talking in your head that nobody else could hear unless they were in the direct path of the sound (high frequency noises are directional).

 

i may be a bit off topic so let me redirect.

would an audio artifact buffer the difference in sound?

do we hear the difference in the noise levels?

[iNow]

with average, I mean: a man (no sexism, there're just more men than women) falling asleep every evening at 23:00 and waking up at 07:00 exactly; his biorithym is used to this pattern, making him not specially tired or more awake than usual; this person doesn't suffer from any illness (let's assume he's perfectly healthy) and goes to work every day without receiving any stressful tasks - the person is thus not subject to (remarkable) stress, no allergies to anything that is in his bedroom, and I guess you already know what about the propensity for apnea...

Have you tried looking at research into sleep to determine if a study of this nature has ever been conducted (google scholar might be a good starting point)? Have you considered running a study like this yourself?

 

http://scholar.google.com/

[Function]

I have considered doing that. However, my age restricts this: I don't have any place to do this correctly, it'll probably cost some money I don't have and nobody's interested enough in science to be a test subject

[Rajnish Kaushik]

Hello

 

Yesterday, I was wondering something:

 

• When a person falls in sleep in a complete dark, silent room (0 dB; let's assume the person's breathing and heart beating etc. doesn't make any sound). When he's in the REM-sleep, and suddenly, a sound is being produced, he will most likely wake up.
• When a person falls in sleep while the same (let's say, constant) sound is being played on the background, will he wake up (let's say in the REM-sleep) when the sound is suddenly deactivated??

  My guess would be: yes: the brains are used to the sound and I think that when they register a sudden change of the situation, they will wake you up?

(The same could be asked for light, instead of sound)

 

Thank you for answers or reasoning.

 

Sincerely

 

Function

this is not applicable to light because when(after)i sleep my mom switch the lights off but i don't wake up