"Trolling"

[Craer]

I've seen a troll roaming about

 

For a definition see

http://www.peorian.com/technology/technology-news/trolls-cyberbullies/1079-how-to-identify-and-defeat-an-internet-troll

[Stetson]

As the famous saying goes, "cool story, bro". So I saw you posted this under ethics, is there supposed to be a discussion on whether trolling people is ethical? Or are you simply stating the existence of internet trolls?

[ajb]

We do get trolls here of various kinds. I have no idea why they do it.

 

Closely related I think are some of the cranks and crackpots we get. They have no real interest in any meaningful exchange, they just want to soapbox and then moan when no one agrees with their "revolutionary" idea. Quite often such threads just become a place to "feed the troll" and I know for sure that I have been guilty of that, though the intent is just to help guide them.

 

It can be hard to distinguish mistaken and stubborn from the clear intent to wind people up.

[Craer]

As the famous saying goes, "cool story, bro". So I saw you posted this under ethics, is there supposed to be a discussion on whether trolling people is ethical? Or are you simply stating the existence of internet trolls?

This is a good example of trolling, instead of a request for information on the motivation of my post "As the famous saying goes, "cool story, bro". So I saw you posted this under ethics" was placed as a preface.

This Post is intended as an educational tool in the unethical use of unnecessary language within scientific debate.

[Phi for All]

This is a good example of trolling, instead of a request for information on the motivation of my post "As the famous saying goes, "cool story, bro". So I saw you posted this under ethics" was placed as a preface.

This Post is intended as an educational tool in the unethical use of unnecessary language within scientific debate.

 

There's a sensitivity switch on your Troll-o-meter. This seems like a catch with the gain set on "10".

[Endercreeper01]

There are many trolls everywhere. Sadly, there is always going to be internet trolls.

[Craer]

It might be.

Does this excuse bigotry?

[Phi for All]

It might be.

Does this excuse bigotry?

 

Look, trolling and slurs against groups are against the rules here. If you see it, report it.

 

If this is a thread about trolling in general, then it's a good discussion. If it's about a specific instance here, please go through the right procedure. We don't want to make threads about specific members, ever.

[Craer]

I am aware this is the principle behind using Scientific phrasing.

Not everyone is as versed as others.

Its a reason to educate.

This is a general statement, I've seen many trolls here.

I had felt like making a subtle Harry Potter reference to lighten the mood.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Craer

[Endy0816]

I think you are confusing an attack on an idea with an attack on your person. The first is allowed and expected here, the second is against the rules.

 

As far as terminology goes, most of the time you can head over to Wikipedia and research it there.

[Phi for All]

I am aware this is the principle behind using Scientific phrasing.

Not everyone is as versed as others.

This doesn't mean attack them.

Its a reason to educate.

 

One of the distinctions we make at SFN is that we urge people to attack ideas, but leave the person alone. Often people conflate the two, but it's easy to separate ideas from those who have them. It's also easier to look at your own ideas more objectively when you remove yourself from the equation.

 

I'm not a bad person, but I've had some bad ideas before.

 

 

 

Edit: Cross-posted with Endy0816.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Phi for All

[Craer]

I think you are confusing an attack on an idea with an attack on your person. The first is allowed and expected here, the second is against the rules.

 

As far as terminology goes, most of the time you can head over to Wikipedia and research it there.

Just to clarify for you, the two are very distinguishable.

We are on the same page with a certain level of misunderstanding.

[imatfaal]

!

Moderator Note

 

Can we get this thread moving towards a topic that can be debated please?

 

We realise there are trolls; if you want to discuss Trolls from a moral / ethical standpoint then please proceed, otherwise this thread will be closed. To re-iterate the messages from members above; any finger-pointing at other members is not acceptable behaviour. And let us try to stay on the topic announced in the OP; if you wish to discuss scientific language or logical fallacies then do so in a thread with an OP on those ideas.

 

Do not respond to this mod note within the thread. Do not discuss an individual poster or complain about a specific post within this thread - report any posts you feel are objectionable

 

[Endercreeper01]

Also, how do we distinguish trolls from other people? Sometimes, people are wrongly accused of trolling (as with me). We must be able to distinguish.

[Craer]

Its unethical to take a misunderstanding of vernacular and from there proceed to attack the individual rather then address the idea(s) or the misunderstanding.

Discuss?

By an "attack" on the individual I am speaking of

Debasement

Implications of being lesser in any way shape or form

Harrassment

Hatred

Veiled accusations

Accusations

 

 

Basically addressing the individual rather then the idea or word clarification.

 

 

P.S. I would be a lying fool if I claimed this was something I've never struggled with as a perpetrator or victim.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Craer

[iNow]

Perhaps the thread title here is more accurately seen as a statement of the OPs central intent.

[Craer]

Perhaps the thread title here is more accurately seen as a statement of the OPs central intent.

Why do you feel this way?

The title of this topic is most certainly a statement of central intent.

To define the central intent:

Trolling - a word used to describe bigotry within a negative mythological context(as trolls were hardly a good thing).

Edited December 14, 2013 by Craer

[Phi for All]

The ethics of trolling, remember? This current line is starting to swirl in circles, headed down the pipes.

[Craer]

The ethics of trolling, remember? This current line is starting to swirl in circles, headed down the pipes.

The ethics of proper word choice within a scientific forum, so as to encourage new ideas, discourage bad ideas, and prevent abuses to an individual.

A proper exploration of ethics yes?

Edited December 14, 2013 by Craer

[ajb]

Also, how do we distinguish trolls from other people? Sometimes, people are wrongly accused of trolling (as with me). We must be able to distinguish.

I think it can be difficult to tell sometimes. Some posters on here are just unwilling to change their opinions when faced with pertinent questions and/or evidence to the contrary. At some point this feels more like a troll than someone who is here with the intention of a meaningful exchange.

[iNow]

Why do you feel this way?

Experience.

[Phi for All]

Also, how do we distinguish trolls from other people? Sometimes, people are wrongly accused of trolling (as with me). We must be able to distinguish.

 

As with our no personal attacks rule, people can troll without being a troll. There are those who come here to do nothing but. Practically everyone has, at some time or other, failed to concede a point gracefully and continued to argue past where even we believed in what we were saying. It's in our competitive nature to win arguments, and sometimes we push it too far and we troll the discussion just trying to rattle some cages, or lash out for some kind of vindication.

 

It's not good form, but it doesn't make us trolls, any more than the candy bar we lifted from the convenience store when we were ten makes us thieves. I think we can wear these hats for a short time without getting our hair too mussed up, without taking on the taint of our actions.

[Craer]

I think it can be difficult to tell sometimes. Some posters on here are just unwilling to change their opinions when faced with pertinent questions and/or evidence to the contrary. At some point this feels more like a troll than someone who is here with the intention of a meaningful exchange.

I have questioned myself on this very thing to be sure. In the end it is up to all of the participants not just me.

[ajb]

By an "attack" on the individual I am speaking of

Debasement

Implications of being lesser in any way shape or form

Harrassment

Hatred

Veiled accusations

Accusations

One should always try to keep the discussion about ideas/claims/assertions made in a given thread rather than focus on the poster.

 

Trying to remain civil is important, but it can be difficult with crackpots and cranks as one is tempted to just call them out. I don't like to do it, but sometimes I cannot see a better option. In particular, I am worried that less aware members here may take the wacky ideas sometimes presented here as being real cutting edge science.

[Craer]

In my personal opinion(opinions exist get over it)

Most of the people to post in this thread are in agreement.

One should always try to keep the discussion about ideas/claims/assertions made in a given thread rather than focus on the poster.

Trying to remain civil is important, but it can be difficult with crackpots and cranks as one is tempted to just call them out. I don't like to do it, but sometimes I cannot see a better option. In particular, I am worried that less aware members here may take the wacky ideas sometimes presented here as being real cutting edge science.

This is why the ideas need challenging rather then the authors.

Edited December 14, 2013 by Craer