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What would be proof of a God or gods running the universe?


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Lets say that that the universe was found to be full of life forms and most of

evolved independantly from each other yet the all have one thing in common

DNA, the odds of this happenning dissapear to about zero would you still

cling to these odds or would you accept that there is a creational force behind life.

 

 

I don't see any reason why our kind of DNA life cannot always be the end result of abiogenesis but I see no reason why it should either.

 

if life in the universe was very similar on a macro basis (pretty much a copy of the earths biota) everywhere and complex life was was very common I might let my mind wonder toward some sort of organizational force in the universe but for now both life and complex life appear to be quite rare but complex organics have been seen detected welling up in geysers on a moon of Saturn. http://www.guardian.co.uk/science/2012/jul/29/alien-life-enceladus-saturn-moon Enceladus is fascinating... eyebrow.gif chemistry at work...

 

I don't think I'd take the bet of life being rare or not very similar but I still see chemistry not anything mechanical or intelligent... In fact I think it could be argued that life may have orginated on moons like enceladus and migrated to earth in ice chunks to take advantage of an organic stew on the young earth... Just my humble opinion there by the way....

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Science already has explained the prime creator. It's called psychology.

How would you know they're not just full of hot air?     Although a higher power that could affect gravity would be pretty awesome. Until you ran out of atmosphere.

I'm not convinced we would notice... if the true percentage was taken up....

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Denying a creator indicates that everything happens naturally and

lifeforms evolved naturally in the universe and are highest intelligence

in this reality and there is no other intelligence behind it, it sounds

dumb, something looks good is good something looks bad is bad,

intuition evolutionary? lets look at the universe made from charged

particles which can only be derived from pair creation unless you

know of another way. The antiprotons and positrons are missing

in this universe which is an unnatural situation, where are they,

Alien contacties have been told that universes are created in

pairs, matter and antimatter pairs by creational forces which

gives creedance to Aliens and creational forces since the antimatter

has to be somewhere. Then there's the Goldilock factor extremely

slight changes in constants and life would not be possible, which

indicates the whole system was designed for life.

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Denying a creator indicates that everything happens naturally and

lifeforms evolved naturally in the universe and are highest intelligence

in this reality and there is no other intelligence behind it, it sounds

dumb, something looks good is good something looks bad is bad,

intuition evolutionary? lets look at the universe made from charged

particles which can only be derived from pair creation unless you

know of another way. The antiprotons and positrons are missing

in this universe which is an unnatural situation, where are they,

Alien contacties have been told that universes are created in

pairs, matter and antimatter pairs by creational forces which

gives creedance to Aliens and creational forces since the antimatter

has to be somewhere. Then there's the Goldilock factor extremely

slight changes in constants and life would not be possible, which

indicates the whole system was designed for life.

 

 

Again as has been said, your incredulity has no bearing on reality, please back up these assertions...

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I don't know for sure what would be proof but if some sort of miracle happened which allowed people to escape all forms of hardship, worry, pain and suffering and maybe even trascend flesh and blood form into some kind of better, much more invulnerable body like in Star Trek for example then this would perhaps be proof of a deity performing miracles.

 

 

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I don't know for sure what would be proof but if some sort of miracle happened which allowed people to escape all forms of hardship, worry, pain and suffering and maybe even trascend flesh and blood form into some kind of better, much more invulnerable body like in Star Trek for example then this would perhaps be proof of a deity performing miracles.

 

 

 

 

Not to split a hair too thin but that would still be technology...

 

This would appear to be significant to this discussion as well...

 

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2009/07/is-there-undiscovered-weird-life-on-earth-worldleading-expert-says-it-could-be-biggest-discovery-sin.html

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Not to split a hair too thin but that would still be technology...

 

 

Define "technology". That would not be technology in my opinion because we are talking about divine technology, not normal technology and the current technology we have is quite crappy in my opinion.

 

Even if there ever was a God, I doubt that such a being will be able (or willing) to satisfy every greedy human

wishes and desires.

 

Also Star Trek is not the only Creationist universe I can think of. There are many other Creationist universes that I think of that are clearly superior to this universe in almost every way I can think such as the Star Wars universe (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Force_(Star_Wars)) for example or the Culture universe or the Ringworld universe.

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The best universe of course is a one where everyone can be a God and there is no hierarchy between Gods and non-Gods or between metahumans and non-metahumans. Everyone has the same amount of power to effect the universe and there is only equality and no hierarchy.

 

Hierarchy and inequality is at the root of all evil, so is man's greed to rule the universe. This is why the best universe is a universe with no hierarchy and no Gods.

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I agree, a few truly miraculous events would turn many a head... I like Star Trek and Ring World or a fusion of the two...

 

Have you read the Culture novels of Iain M Banks? Personally one of my favourite - especially the early, slightly odder books. Feersum Endjin was amazing - bearing that in mind, whatever happened to Bascule (who was clearly a fan given his name and avatar)

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bearing that in mind, whatever happened to Bascule (who was clearly a fan given his name and avatar)

 

He was driven away due to the actions and unabashed use of logical fallacies and bullshit arguments of the former Politics board moderator (the same reason I left for several several months without logging in or checking back a single time). I guess Bascule was having a hard time preventing himself from logging back in on occasion, and each time that he returned it was like a slap in the face reminding him why he'd been away... Basically, it was more of the same and really quite frustrating, so to circumvent his desire to login once in a while he took the nuclear option. He altered his password to something completely random that was impossible for him to remember (like pounding the keyboard and copying/pasting that text into the re-type your password entry box) so he wouldn't even be able to log back in should he ever want to. He hasn't been seen here since.

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If everyone could pick one or two (except omnipotence of course as that would be cheating) superhuman abilities from the Comics universe.

 

The Comics universe is an example of a Creationist universe where everyone can basically become a God.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_superhuman_features_and_abilities_in_fiction#Superpower_interaction

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If everyone could pick one or two (except omnipotence of course as that would be cheating) superhuman abilities from the Comics universe.

This sentence appears to be missing a THEN clause. If everyone could pick 1 or 2 superhuman abilities... then what?

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If everyone could have the extra-ordinary abilities of Superman for at least a day then I'll believe in God but until that happens, I have little reason to believe in God.

 

Believing in God is also a lot like believing in Superman because Superman is also a God compared to a normal human being.

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Powers_and_abilities_of_Superman

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I can't see myself ever believing in any gods, as the world is... I also would have no interest in joining such a club, if this god ran this world as it appears. I'd want to give it an earful.

 

I might be happy to join worshippers if this god actually had an appeals/complaints office, and injustices could be reported and RECTIFIED.

 

The god of niceness. Be nice or be smote. Your innermost thoughts known. No mistakes. We should turn out more like human bonobo chimps. in personality

 

On a PERSONAL level, If there was a second earth, close enough to visit, despite all the laws of physics, reality overridden, where those who were gentle, kindly, and who died too early or I thought deserved extra life in their prime, could go, I'd be impressed. If I could submit names and see them in their prime, living happily... Tho if this god was all knowing, I wouldn't have to do a list. Eg If Alan Turing was alive and well, in a happy relationship, working away happily, on his passions, if I could be taken to meet a few chaps I know the stories of, in WW2, and in one case, his mother was with him, alive and well, I'd be pretty impressed. Think about signing up.

 

That is on a personal level. If a god could and did do these things, because it was truly a kind and benevolent god, agree on all the laws of physics controlling our world, and then made that 2nd world, flouting all rules, just because it could, and was a really big, soft hearted, protective god, I'd at least take a membership form and mean to join up.

 

A god who was all powerful and ignored the state of this planet, even down to individual injustices, I would want nothing to do with, real or not. Even if proven real, I'd be one of those angry loons in the street... Whenever I saw it. I'd be shouting names of people and animal species, and yelling PULL YOUR FINGER OUT.

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If everyone could have the extra-ordinary abilities of Superman for at least a day then I'll believe in God but until that happens, I have little reason to believe in God.

 

Believing in God is also a lot like believing in Superman because Superman is also a God compared to a normal human being.

 

Thanks for coming back and clarifying. I probably should have realized your previous comment was in response to the thread title. Cheers. :)

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Nothing can ever prove existence of god. You can come up with as many miracles you want, they can all be/will be explained by science. God was just a placeholder for the ancients who couldn't make sense of the world.

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Nothing can ever prove existence of god. You can come up with as many miracles you want, they can all be/will be explained by science. God was just a placeholder for the ancients who couldn't make sense of the world.

If they can be explained by science they cannot be miracles. I don't believe in god - but somethings I could imagine, if they came to pass, would make me question my world view so severely that nothing would be certain. Silly idea - if in the near future when we/if start routinely mapping entire genomes some bright spark runs an ascii converter on one of the huge pieces of 'junk' dna replicated in every single human being (even the prehistoric ones) ie every set of four bases could represent a unique ascii character and it translates to the king james bible, the koran, the works of shakespear, on the origin of species, and a short message saying hi guys this is your final message from god - good luck out there! Could I really, with a straight face, say that barring a massive hoax that science could explain this?

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I have heard many things over the years that have been asserted as proof of a supreme being. Some are patently ridiculous, imatfaal's idea is among the best. Many would say that proof of god is absurd, but there are some things that would be difficult to ignore, so far I have not personally seen or heard of anything that even suggests god as a reality. WHOA! Except for that lightning strike that just hit near me, better luck next time god...ph34r.png

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Why do people pray when they find themselves emergency situation

even people have no faith in a supreme being. These people

occasionally have their prayers answered when miracles happen

which are events outside the explanation of known science.

Maybe prayers have to do with evolution those who prayed

survived those who didn't, didn't.

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Why do people pray when they find themselves emergency situation

even people have no faith in a supreme being. These people

occasionally have their prayers answered when miracles happen

which are events outside the explanation of known science.

Maybe prayers have to do with evolution those who prayed

survived those who didn't, didn't.

 

 

I don't do that... what is your point?

 

Actual studies have shown that being prayed for and actually knowing you are being prayed for makes the outcome more likely to be bad .

 

People who were being prayed for and didn't know it did about the same as those not being prayed for... so how about naming some of those miracles?

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Here are 3 totally unbias articles on medical miracles

from repudiable sources

 

http://www2.wspa.com/lifestyles/2009/apr/23/medical_miracles-ar-17589/

 

http://www.mrc.org/node/28080

 

http://m.theglobeandmail.com/life/health-and-fitness/do-medical-miracles-really-exist/article1381004/?service=mobile

 

I think this pretty good evidence that prayers to a higher power work.

Edited by Semjase
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Double blind unbiased studies? I don't think so...

Edited by Moontanman
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