Don't want to be an American Idiot

[John Cuthber]

So John, that would mean that you would answer the question I asked iNow in the affirmitive. An atheist car mechanic is a better mechanic than a theistic one. Really?

 

iNow, you missed my point. It doesn't matter, it's not a proxy or filter, it's just not relevent. Whether a person is an evolutionist or a creationist has no bearing on how they view their local councils efforts in garbage removal. Being a sort of "guided evolution" type myself has exactly what bearing on how I feel about the bloody stupid carbon tax that Gillard wants? If I was a creationist I'd be in favour?

 

We recently turfed out an incompetent State Gov in the largest landslide in Australian political history, I mean these people were a joke. Would I view them as less incompetent if I were more atheistic? Nope. Like I said, it's not a proxy or filter, belief or not in creationism is simply not relevent to the day to day lives of 99% of the population. Will I buy white or wholegrain bread? What would a creationist do? Full cream or reduced fat milk? Which one fits better with my belief in evolution?

 

It really doesn't matter.

Well done for the strawman.

My point is that someone who gets into the habit of believing incredible stuff is likely to carry on doing so.

In the case of a mechanic it might mean that he believes in some "new" engine additive that the maker says will improve efficiency.

I'd prefer a mechanic who was in the habit of looking at the information and making a decision rather than showing blind faith.

I think that's a reasonable preference and I think (all things being equal) that an atheist mechanic is more likely to do the job I want.

 

"Whether a person is an evolutionist or a creationist has no bearing on how they view their local councils efforts in garbage removal."

Would you like to bet on that?

There is good evidence of political belief correlating with religious belief.

www8.stat.umu.se/kursweb/vt011/stagkvantv11/?download...pdf

[iNow]

JohnC has addressed JohnB's question with clarity, and his position closely resembles my own.

 

And JohnB - It would not surprise me in the least if your willingness to believe in "guided evolution" was related in your unwillingness to accept that humans are impacting the climate and the major source of the recent global annual average warming trend. It's the type of thinking we're admonishing, not so much the subject.

[John Cuthber]

JohnC has addressed JohnB's question with clarity, and his position closely resembles my own.

 

And JohnB - It would not surprise me in the least if your willingness to believe in "guided evolution" was related in your unwillingness to accept that humans are impacting the climate and the major source of the recent global annual average warming trend. It's the type of thinking we're admonishing, not so much the subject.

Thanks,

I should have also added that, even if there are issues where it doesn't matter, there are clearly issues where it matters a great deal and we should be prepared to judge people on their attitudes towards those issues.

[zapatos]

My point is that someone who gets into the habit of believing incredible stuff is likely to carry on doing so.

In the case of a mechanic it might mean that he believes in some "new" engine additive that the maker says will improve efficiency.

I understand why you say this and have seen anecdotal evidence in some of these threads, but is there any substantial evidence that belief in God translates into belief in incredible things not associated with God? As far as the mechanic and the 'new' engine additive, having an intimate knowledge of engines would IMO make him the least likely to believe in extraordinary claims about engine additives.

 

I have also seen atheists on this site who believe aliens have visited us, but that does not seem to get them to be more likely to believe in God.

 

(I was unable to use your link - maybe that answers my question.)

[iNow]

And then you have this type of stupid where an entire country harms kids critical thinking abilities and connection to reality.

 

 

South Korea purges the concept of evolution from their textbooks:

 

http://www.nature.com/news/south-korea-surrenders-to-creationist-demands-1.10773

 

 

Thank you, religion. You make our world better! (where's the sarcasm font?)

Edited June 5, 2012 by iNow

[Realitycheck]

Its almost easy to believe since across the street they have had a textbook case of a living godhead, living example of an antichrist to point to, always complaining about the wsorld not giving him enough respect. . I knew a christian Korean lady once and she held her bible pretty tightly. It will be interesting to see how the heir turns out.

[Moontanman]

I understand why you say this and have seen anecdotal evidence in some of these threads, but is there any substantial evidence that belief in God translates into belief in incredible things not associated with God? As far as the mechanic and the 'new' engine additive, having an intimate knowledge of engines would IMO make him the least likely to believe in extraordinary claims about engine additives.

 

I have also seen atheists on this site who believe aliens have visited us, but that does not seem to get them to be more likely to believe in God.

 

(I was unable to use your link - maybe that answers my question.)

 

 

I'm not sure where you live Zapatos but here in the Southern USA religion is very important to people when they decide to get someone to do work for them. a great many businesses have signs proclaiming them to be a christian business and that due to their belief in Jesus they can be trusted.

 

Claiming to be a christian gets you trust and respect and more importantly if the business does mess up then they get forgiveness. many businesses have in their ads a line that says they are a Christian business.

 

if a Christian business tells you that you nee an additive they are believed by those who think being a christian means you are honest and if you do mess up the customers car or house or what ever then you get a pass for making an honest mistake.

[zapatos]

I'm not sure where you live Zapatos but here in the Southern USA religion is very important to people when they decide to get someone to do work for them. a great many businesses have signs proclaiming them to be a christian business and that due to their belief in Jesus they can be trusted.

 

Claiming to be a christian gets you trust and respect and more importantly if the business does mess up then they get forgiveness. many businesses have in their ads a line that says they are a Christian business.

 

if a Christian business tells you that you nee an additive they are believed by those who think being a christian means you are honest and if you do mess up the customers car or house or what ever then you get a pass for making an honest mistake.

I live in Missouri. We have a local company that sells appliances and electronics, and they are "Open everyday but Sunday, in honor of the Lord's day". Even when many of their competitors went out of business the last few years they did just fine. Personally I refuse to shop there just because of the ad. I also hate when I get off the phone with someone and they say "goodbye, and have a blessed day".

[JohnB]

Well done for the strawman.

My point is that someone who gets into the habit of believing incredible stuff is likely to carry on doing so.

In the case of a mechanic it might mean that he believes in some "new" engine additive that the maker says will improve efficiency.

I'd prefer a mechanic who was in the habit of looking at the information and making a decision rather than showing blind faith.

I think that's a reasonable preference and I think (all things being equal) that an atheist mechanic is more likely to do the job I want.

 

No strawman at all. I'm saying that it doesn't matter for the vast majority of people for the majority of the time. And if you don't enquire as to whether your local mechanic is a creationist or not, or your plumber or elecrician before you agree to allow them to work, then it doesn't bloody well matter to you either, does it?

 

And JohnB - It would not surprise me in the least if your willingness to believe in "guided evolution" was related in your unwillingness to accept that humans are impacting the climate and the major source of the recent global annual average warming trend. It's the type of thinking we're admonishing, not so much the subject.

 

iNow, what absolute rubbish. I use a one sentence throwaway and you've got me nicely classified? Bullshit. What pop psych comic did you get that sh*t out of? I'm not even sure I'm right, I question my beliefs every single day, which I'm willing to bet is a heck of a lot more than you do. Summarising my view in one sentence is as informative of the entire concept as calling Gibbons "Decline and fall of the Roman Empire" a "book about Rome". There you go, I've just saved you days of reading, you should be able to get all the information you want from my description.

 

Anybody who has read enough history is well aware that every generation or so sees charlatans and true believers who think that they can influence the weather. That's why religion started in the first place. Yet from your POV it is inappropriate to view the latest bunch of Canutes with some scepticism. Well go right ahead, enjoy the giddy feeling of your bloated ego as you go along and "Save the Planet". Is it more comfortable than realising that we humans are mere insects on this planet and what we do makes little if any difference? There has always been a fraction of the population that cannot reconcile just how unimportant they are in the great scheme of things (if there is a scheme)and so they adopt ways of thinking to magnify their personal importance.

 

Look around, read history. Priests telling the populace that they will go to hell unto the seventh generation, predictions of unverified climae models going out 2,000 years. "Do as you are told or the crops will fail and your children will starve". I've read half a hundred variations on the theme from over 4,000 years of history. UFO enthusiasts that make this pissant little planet seem like some sort of Grand Central Station for the Galaxy. So many different races coming here we should have traffic lights in orbit. Then we have the "New Agers" who want to raise the consciousness, believing that what happens on little old Earth will direct the evolution of the Universe. What a bunch of ego trips. How about dealing with reality? What we do on this planet makes no difference at all to the Universe. It doesn't care and we don't matter.

 

I know that some with a religious bent think that climate change won't be a problem because God won't let it be. Fine, but just because there are some loony yanks doesn't mean the rest of us think this way. Except in small and localised ways there has never been any evidence that mankind has had any control over the weather and climate of the planet, regardless of constant claims to the contrary. If you want to say that this has changed, well extraordinary claim srequire extraordinary evidence. Where is it? And don't get me started on hiding data and work and other shoddy practices. Have an AGW religion by all means, you've got the "Holy Oracles" and a priesthood already, complete with heaven, hell and penitence, sh*t you can even buy indulgences, sorry "Carbon Credits". But don't drag the rational scientific community down into the mud by calling it a "science".

 

And especially don't imply other people are somehow defective or mentally lesser beings because they don't share your apocalyptic religious beliefs.

Edited June 6, 2012 by JohnB