Jiggerj Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 It is possible that every religious person that ever lived, or ever will live, can tell you that their God is perfect in every way. Can we discuss just what 'Perfect' means, and if it's even possible for any intelligent entity to live in a state of perfection? What makes this even more difficult is that the catholic bible informs us that God made man in his own image. So, how does a perfect being exist perfectly within a humanoid form? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immortal Posted February 5, 2012 Share Posted February 5, 2012 It is possible that every religious person that ever lived, or ever will live, can tell you that their God is perfect in every way. They can't tell you that God is perfect if they haven't seen him in the first place, if they're saying that then its not true knowledge, its not true revealation. There is a lot of difference between a religious person who has seen God from a religous person who hasn't seen him. Can we discuss just what 'Perfect' means, Perfect means knowing your true nature of being or existence. and if it's even possible for any intelligent entity to live in a state of perfection? What makes this even more difficult is that the catholic bible informs us that God made man in his own image. So, how does a perfect being exist perfectly within a humanoid form? As you can see a perfect being cannot exist perfectly within a humanoid form, if you achieve perfection, i.e when you know your true nature, you'll no longer be confined to a humanoid form, you'll not have awareness of your body, the body will function on its own, it has got enough intelligence on its own, you don't have to be aware of your body, you don't have to remember what your name is, where your house is, how much debt you have, just no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggerj Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 the body will function on its own What does that mean? What energy source will the body use? you don't have to remember what your name is, where your house is, how much debt you have, just no worries Suppose there is only one of these perfect, intelligent entities. How does a lone perfect being keep from getting bored or lonely? Wouldn't the presence of intelligence in any form suffer the torment of lonliness? What would an all-knowing being think about if it already knows everything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Abidal Sala Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) If we are in the same form of God, then why don't we have God's abilities ? What makes God any different from us in this case? If God is shaped like a human and can be seen by eyes then he is made of the same properties of the universe, like matter and energy (which supposedly HE created), like this you made a creature out of him, one that is not any distinct than ourselves, and in fact this way he can't exist without the universe. Whenever you are trying to picture God in your mind you are but creating a new one, because whenever you imagine something it is a result of your experience in your own domain (it is impossible to imagine anything beyond the universe). God created this universe, how comes he is the same as something that he has created, or in other words he belongs to it? I don't understand how people are convinced with such contradiction.. I believe in a God but certainly a God that is above than that Edited February 6, 2012 by Abidal Sala Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
immortal Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 What does that mean? What energy source will the body use? It means the body doesn't need an energy source what it needs is an information source. Your body is surviving because you are extracting energy from an outside source and there by reducing the thermodynamic entropy with in your body sub-system but your body is different from other machines because it has a genome which is an information source and it is this information source which guides you to access the energy source in the first place and therefore your body is surviving solely because of this information source. Dna is not genome, Dna is just a material, it is not information itself. Hubert Yockey - Information theory, Evolution and origin of life Science can only measure information in the form of bits and bytes, it cannot know what information "IS", i.e its true nature and hence it cannot solve the origin of life problem. Religion can solve the problem because it has methods to access and know the quale of information, its true nature and therefore you can manipulate the actual information source physically, it exists, it is not an abstract concept. Therefore the information source will take care of your body, you don't have to be aware of your body and keep feeding it often. Suppose there is only one of these perfect, intelligent entities. How does a lone perfect being keep from getting bored or lonely? Wouldn't the presence of intelligence in any form suffer the torment of lonliness? May be that's one of the reason why the perfect being created plurality in this world and made us appear imperfect so that we are no longer lonely, there can be only one perfect being, there can not be more than one perfect beings because only one thing can be ultimately perfect and not this is more perfect or lesss perfect than the other. What would an all-knowing being think about if it already knows everything? Perfect beings don't think, they are not interested to know anything because they know everything that is there to know. If we are in the same form of God, then why don't we have God's abilities ? This world is a test to know whether you are ready enough to have access to God's abilities residing in you, you need to earn it first. What makes God any different from us in this case? If God is shaped like a human and can be seen by eyes then he is made of the same properties of the universe, like matter and energy (which supposedly HE created), like this you made a creature out of him, one that is not any distinct than ourselves, and in fact this way he can't exist without the universe. Do you really know what the universe is made up of, what time, space and matter is made up of, you don't know, the properties which you assign to the universe are ideological concepts used to better understand our nature around us no greater reality should be attributed to it, you cannot know what the universe is made up of physically. Therefore he can exist without your phenomenal universe. however he can't exist without the noumenal universe. Whenever you are trying to picture God in your mind you are but creating a new one, because whenever you imagine something it is a result of your experience in your own domain (it is impossible to imagine anything beyond the universe). If you're imagining a God then it is not God, God is not created by human imagination. God is found by revealation not by imagination. God created this universe, how comes he is the same as something that he has created, or in other words he belongs to it? I don't understand how people are convinced with such contradiction.. I believe in a God but certainly a God that is above than that Man was made in the image of God. What would prevent God from making his own image. You don't understand unless you have revealation of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggerj Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 Perfect beings don't think, they are not interested to know anything because they know everything that is there to know. Ick! Thank god I'm not perfect. I need my pain! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustinW Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 What one might think of as perfect, another would surely disagree. Perfect is a matter of personal opinion. If someone claims that their God is perfect then they are not lying or even willfully ignorant for that matter, they just see it that way. If I said that something was perfect, and someone else said that it wasn't, neither one would be lying because it is a matter of opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggerj Posted February 6, 2012 Author Share Posted February 6, 2012 What one might think of as perfect, another would surely disagree. Perfect is a matter of personal opinion. If someone claims that their God is perfect then they are not lying or even willfully ignorant for that matter, they just see it that way. If I said that something was perfect, and someone else said that it wasn't, neither one would be lying because it is a matter of opinion. It's like the idea of a heaven. The religious believe it is paradise. Well, according to the bible, Satan and his followers didn't think so. They rebelled and were thrown out. If there can be discontentment of any kind in heaven, if there can be war in heaven, then it's not paradise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 Here are some of the un-evinced assertions so far. "There is a lot of difference between a religious person who has seen God from a religous person who hasn't seen him." "Perfect means knowing your true nature of being or existence." "As you can see a perfect being cannot exist perfectly within a humanoid form, if you achieve perfection, i.e when you know your true nature, you'll no longer be confined to a humanoid form, you'll not have awareness of your body, the body will function on its own, it has got enough intelligence on its own, you don't have to be aware of your body, you don't have to remember what your name is, where your house is, how much debt you have, just no worries." "If God is shaped like a human and can be seen by eyes then he is made of the same properties of the universe, like matter and energy" " like this you made a creature out of him, one that is not any distinct than ourselves, and " "in fact this way he can't exist without the universe." "God created this universe" "It means the body doesn't need an energy source what it needs is an information source." "but your body is different from other machines because it has a genome which is an information source . " "Science can only measure information in the form of bits and bytes, it cannot know what information "IS"" " hence it cannot solve the origin of life problem." "Religion can solve the problem " "because it has methods to access and know the quale of information" and so on. If people are permitted to do this and get away with it then the thread isn't going to achieve a lot. Incidentally unicorns whose horns have a left hand thread are purple. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mississippichem Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 I'm quite certain that said unicorns are actually magenta. Damn John get it right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRocket Posted February 6, 2012 Share Posted February 6, 2012 (edited) So, how does a perfect being exist perfectly within a humanoid form? ahem (polishes nails on sweater) Edited February 6, 2012 by DrRocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggerj Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 If people are permitted to do this and get away with it then the thread isn't going to achieve a lot. Yeah, I know, but it's entertained me and I'm really bored. Would you expect the religious to deny that a state of perfection cannot exist? That would be denying that a biblical god exists. ahem (polishes nails on sweater) God???? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DrRocket Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 God???? (deep voice) Yes ? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggerj Posted February 7, 2012 Author Share Posted February 7, 2012 (deep voice) Yes ? Oh I wish we had met under different circumstances, but I must inform you that I am with Child Protective Services. Your seven billion children are being placed in foster homes as we speak. Don't worry though, I'm sure your children will be returned to you once you answer a few simple questions; questions, I'm sure, that are the result of a few silly misunderstandings. You didn't really drown everyone except Noah's family in that flood, did you? We've heard reports that you turned Lot's wife into a pillar of salt just for turning around. Is this true? Also, and I'm sure this is completely false because it makes no sense at all, but I have to ask: Did you let it be known that you would forgive us our sins if we nailed your son, Jesus, to a cross and murdered him? Ha! It's so far out there that you don't have to answer. On the one hand you caused a great flood to kill everyone off because they were sinners, but then you conspired with mankind to kill your son. Ehhh, it's just crazy. Right? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted February 7, 2012 Share Posted February 7, 2012 Killing all the people in a flood seems to make some sort of sense, but why kill almost all the animals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggerj Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 Killing all the people in a flood seems to make some sort of sense, but why kill almost all the animals? What a silly question! Do you have ANY idea how long it would've taken Noah to build an ark big enough for ALL the animals??? LOLOLOLOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phi for All Posted February 9, 2012 Share Posted February 9, 2012 Killing all the people in a flood seems to make some sort of sense, but why kill almost all the animals? I've always been struck by that. Omnipotent, perfect God can't kill off the bad parts of humanity without killing off most of the rest of the animals and plants?! He couldn't come up with an Evil Human blaster that only targeted the problem and nothing else? Does God have another set of rules that animals have to live by? Aren't they God's creatures too? Next week, when I take out the trash, I'm going to throw EVERYTHING in my house away. When the garbage men come, I'll rush out to the street and save the stuff I want to keep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jiggerj Posted February 9, 2012 Author Share Posted February 9, 2012 I've always been struck by that. Omnipotent, perfect God can't kill off the bad parts of humanity without killing off most of the rest of the animals and plants?! He couldn't come up with an Evil Human blaster that only targeted the problem and nothing else? Does God have another set of rules that animals have to live by? Aren't they God's creatures too? Next week, when I take out the trash, I'm going to throw EVERYTHING in my house away. When the garbage men come, I'll rush out to the street and save the stuff I want to keep. Remember when HE precisely killed off just the firstborn sons in Egypt? Solid proof that HE's been practicing. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SeptemberMoon Posted March 5, 2012 Share Posted March 5, 2012 It means the body doesn't need an energy source what it needs is an information source. It is when everything created throughout eternity collectively becomes One, that is God. God is the beginning and the end. oh yeah... God is love. In order to be one with god, we must become one with Love. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iNow Posted March 6, 2012 Share Posted March 6, 2012 It is when everything created throughout eternity collectively becomes One, that is God. God is the beginning and the end. oh yeah... God is love. In order to be one with god, we must become one with Love. In what way does assigning the term "god" to this help make it more clear or more beautiful than it already is? Doesn't using the term "cosmos" allow us to describe the same thing without all of the historical baggage and confusing connotations? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now