Obama and the NYC "Ground Zero" Mosque

[swansont]

Instead of a contrived example about a steakhouse, how about this: A couple of disturbed teenagers get some weapons and terrorize a school, killing many people, including themselves. Shortly thereafter, a national organization that defends and promotes gun use and ownership goes forth with their plan to hold their national convention, the equivalent of a few blocks away from "ground zero."

 

Blaming all Muslims for 9/11 is like blaming all gun owners for Columbine, or VA Tech.

 

 

———

 

Arson and gunfire at the Murfreesboro Community Center. So much for terrorism being "an Islamic thing."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/31/us/31mosque.html

[ParanoiA]

Instead of a contrived example about a steakhouse, how about this: A couple of disturbed teenagers get some weapons and terrorize a school, killing many people, including themselves. Shortly thereafter, a national organization that defends and promotes gun use and ownership goes forth with their plan to hold their national convention, the equivalent of a few blocks away from "ground zero."

 

Blaming all Muslims for 9/11 is like blaming all gun owners for Columbine, or VA Tech.

 

 

 

Oops, there for a minute I thought you read my post. You might give it a quick read and note the point on symbolism and how "blaming all Muslims for 9/11..." is a strawman.

 

And yes, I think a gun convention across the street or even a couple blocks from Columbine would have been a bad idea. And even though it wasn't intimate geographically like this Community Center, I still think it a bit heartless to go through with it.

 

For anyone who is interested, this is a nice no-spin read on the facts related to the "Ground Zero" Mosque. Though this is a largely emotional issue, some facts are still valuable.

 

 

———

 

Arson and gunfire at the Murfreesboro Community Center. So much for terrorism being "an Islamic thing."

http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/31/us/31mosque.html

 

Is there a point to this statement? Did someone in here make believe that all terrorism is "an Islamic thing"? I didn't read that anywhere, but I suppose I could have missed it. I do know that the 9/11 terrorists were Islamic extremists, and that this issue is about perceived respect for the survivors and victims of 9/11 and that there's an obvious symbolic connection there that rubs people the wrong way. But all terrorism? That would be crazy.

Edited August 31, 2010 by ParanoiA

[Pangloss]

I wonder sometimes if the problem is that we're constantly demanding growth and "progress" from people who have busy lives. People get tired of being regularly harangued to recognize this problem or that. Two of the most over-used words in the English language are "raising awareness".

 

It's like somebody's regularly grabbing a bottle of old milk from the fridge and shoving it under America's nose, screaming "SMELL THIS OR YOU'RE A RACIST!!!!" Yeah there's some old milk in the fridge, and perhaps we should really throw it out, but it's not really hurting anything just sitting there, and sooner or later the screaming is just going to become counter-productive.

 

Of course, if that's the case it doesn't exonerate either side. The right is just as guilty of drumming up public reaction as the left, and it seems like main-street America has chosen to replace the soft-sell liberalism of the mainstream media with the hard-sell, reactionary, 24-hour conservatism of Fox News, which has just ratcheted up the noise another notch. People think they're angry at this or that "liberal" thing, but they're really just angry about being made to be angry.

 

On the other hand, perhaps those decades of soft-sell, have-a-piece-of-candy-and-accept-your-evilness liberalism set the table and helped put us where we're at today. FNC just woke the sleeping giant, even if they also flogged it a bit and showed it where to feed.

[swansont]

Oops, there for a minute I thought you read my post. You might give it a quick read and note the point on symbolism and how "blaming all Muslims for 9/11..." is a strawman.

 

And yes, I think a gun convention across the street or even a couple blocks from Columbine would have been a bad idea. And even though it wasn't intimate geographically like this Community Center, I still think it a bit heartless to go through with it.

 

They did in fact hold it, and Charlton Heston spoke quite eloquently on why they did, and why blaming an entire community for the actions of a few is misguided.

 

 

Is there a point to this statement? Did someone in here make believe that all terrorism is "an Islamic thing"? I didn't read that anywhere, but I suppose I could have missed it. I do know that the 9/11 terrorists were Islamic extremists, and that this issue is about perceived respect for the survivors and victims of 9/11 and that there's an obvious symbolic connection there that rubs people the wrong way. But all terrorism? That would be crazy.

 

Yes, it is crazy, but it's precisely the sentiment expressed in some of these protests.

[ParanoiA]

They did in fact hold it, and Charlton Heston spoke quite eloquently on why they did, and why blaming an entire community for the actions of a few is misguided.

 

I know they held it, but was it just down the street, or did they merely share the same town? Either way, I wouldn't blame the public for finding it tasteless. Charlton Heston either missed the same emotional connection by appealing to intellect, or there's more to that story.

 

I don't believe this is about Islamaphobia, though that exists as well. The connection is obvious, and it's insulting to intellectualize it into bigotry. I think it's quite simply about irrational emotions around a mass murder of thousands by crazy dudes claiming Islamic holy war in the name of Allah. So yeah, it's not surprising that people would find it weird and tasteless to have anything Islamic nearby.

Edited August 31, 2010 by ParanoiA

[john5746]

http://www.youtube.com/user/thunderf00t?blend=1&ob=4#p/a/u/1/yQE4orNMDAw

I think this video does a decent job of it. Do they have the right? Yes.

Were all or even many muslims at fault for 911? No.

Does Islam promote freedom as we understand it in the west? I don't think so.

9/11 was an attack on the values that provide the foundation of America, not just some buildings and people. So, it would be stupid to tear down those values and outlaw the mosque. But, those that build it and support it would be wise to be respectful of these values that allow its existence. So, if the people building this mosque think that the prime example of Islam is to support religious intolerance, then I support protesting this site.

[Externet]

Arrived to my e-mail inbox; I have no comments. Please delete if necessary.

 

Transcribed:

================================================

From: xxxxxxxxxxxxx@sbcglobal.net

Sent: 02/09/2010 11:30:11 P.M. Atlantic Standard Time

Subj: All about constitutional rights and tolerance.... I vote for No. 1 or No. 18.... and you?

 

A Question: Say you wanted to invest in the opening of a gay bar next to

the proposed mosque in NYC. After all, to our 'Great One', It's all about

constitutional rights and tolerance of others isn't it? Or would it be

insensitive to put one up next to the mosque given their beliefs against

homosexuality?

 

Anyway here are a few 'Proposed' name ideas for bar:

 

"Outfidels"

"You Mecca me Crazy",

"Turbin Cowboys". ....

Here are a few other contenders:

 

30. Honor Drillings

29. Jihard

28. Filthy Omar's Rusty Trombone

27. The Arabian Queen

26. Dune Biters

25. Goat's Night Off

24. The Pink Prophet

23. The Leather Burqa

22. Git Mo

21. Pig in a Poke

20. Sheiks & Freaks

19. Sodom and Gonorrhea

18. Osama Bin Dover

17. The Exploding Goat

16. Weapons of Ass Destruction

15. Alla Assbar

14. Anderson Cooper's Apartment

13. The Sticky Prophet

12. The Sphinxter

11. Grind Zero

10. Nuclear Fuel Rods

9. Hassan's TestostoRoom

8. Turbuns

7. Bunker Busters

6. The Tali-bone

5. Al-Jizzera

4. The Gaza Stripper

3. The Sandy Gerbil

2. The Camel's Hump

1. Hide the Minaret

 

Greg Gutfield To Open A Gay Bar Next To Ground Zero Mosque To Cater To

"Islamic Gay Men"

By Jon Bershad | 8:23 pm, August 9th, 2010

 

No, this is not a joke. In fact, it is instead one of the most brilliant

pieces of provocations in recent years.

Greg Gutfieldfrom Fox News' Red Eye announced today via his blog that he

is actively speaking to investors and plans on opening a gay bar next to

the controversial mosque being built near Ground Zero in New York.

 

To make matters worse (better?) the bar will be specifically designed to

cater to homosexuals of the Islamic faith. God, this is going to be an

exciting block.

Here's Gutfield's entire post which he will expand upon during tonight's

Red Eye:

 

"So, the Muslim investors championing the construction of the new mosque

near Ground Zero claim it's all about strengthening the relationship

between the Muslim and non-Muslim world.

 

As an American, I believe they have every right to build the mosque ?

after all, if they buy the land and they follow the law ? who can stop

them?

 

Which is, why, in the spirit of outreach, I've decided to do the same

thing.

 

I'm announcing tonight, that I am planning to build and open the first gay

bar that caters not only to the west, but also Islamic gay men. To best

express my sincere desire for dialogue, the bar will be situated next to

the mosque Park51, in an available commercial space.

 

This is not a joke. I've already spoken to a number of investors, who have

pledged their support in this bipartisan bid for understanding and

tolerance.

 

As you know, the Muslim faith doesn't look kindly upon homosexuality,

which is why I'm building this bar. It is an effort to break down barriers

and reduce deadly homophobia in the Islamic world.

 

The goal, however, is not simply to open a typical gay bar, but one

friendly to men of Islamic faith. An entire floor, for example, will

feature non-alcoholic drinks, since booze is forbidden by the faith. The

bar will be open all day and night, to accommodate men who would rather

keep their sexuality under wraps ? but still want to dance.

 

Bottom line: I hope that the mosque owners will be as open to the bar, as

I am to the new mosque. After all, the belief driving them to open up

their center near Ground Zero, is no different than mine.

My place, however, will have better music."

 

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[Moontanman]

Well if he has problems finding employees he can always run it by hand...