The situation in Gaza...I was thinking about the way that everything is being kept at a distance and shot through a soft lens by most of the media these days. The death figures, for example: not included in the MOH figures are those people who have died because of the war, but not directly from IDF military action. Several analyses suggest that at least 200,000 people in Gaza are dead today that would still be alive if Israel had not attacked and blockaded Gaza. That is decimation, in the original Roman meaning of the word: one in ten Palestinians. These deaths have arisen though lack of medical care and drugs, exposure, increased risks from malnutrition, epidemic diseases, lack of sanitation, extreme exhaustion from constant displacement, outright starvation, etc. And with the current starvation program that Israel has instituted, that number will grow massively. That's genocide. Mostly women and children and noncombatants, people just trying to live their lives and not terrorists who would cross a border and start killing people.

I much appreciated Arwa Madhawi's column in The Guardian this morning, pointing out what's going on and asking how people will justify their inaction (or confining their actions to strongly worded letters of other statements which are sufficiently anodyne as to not imperil their careers or social circles).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/22/israel-gaza-genocide

Now, when Israel is executing a “final solution” in Gaza, when it is far too late for dissent to make any difference, the tide is slowly starting to turn. Now that Gaza is flattened, turned into mass graves and rubble, people who have kept quiet for the past 19 months are slowly starting to speak up. Now that Israel and the US are not even trying to pretend that they aren’t intent on emptying Gaza and the West Bank of Palestinians, of “taking control” of all of the land, some criticism has started to trickle in.

Over in the UK, they’ve pulled out the “e” word. After 19 months of genocidal violence and almost three months of a starvation campaign the UK has decided to describe the situation as egregious. The UK, along with France and Canada, has threatened – and I’m sure Israel’s leaders are quaking in their boots over this – that there might be a “concrete” response if the mass killing and starvation continues....

....The criticism we are seeing now is simply an exercise in ass-covering. Performative opposition, so that in the future, when the true scale of the slaughter in Gaza is clear, the politicians and media figures responsible for enabling and justifying this horror for 19 months can say: “Look! I said something! I didn’t just stand by!” And what will you say? When future generations read about Gaza with horror and wonder how the western world, with all its moral superiority, its rule-based order and its focus on international human rights law, allowed a livestreamed genocide to happen, what will you say? When future generations learn that, for 19 months, we woke up every morning to videos of children being burned alive – bombed with weapons that the US taxpayer helped pay for and the western world helped justify – will you be able to say that you spoke up?

Edited May 22May 22 by TheVat
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"Every child, every baby in Gaza is an enemy. The enemy is not Hamxs... We need to conquer Gaza and colonize it and not leave a single Gazan child there. There is no other victory." - Moshe Feiglin. Israeli politician 2 days ago. They aren't hiding their real intent anymore.

29 minutes ago, TheVat said:

The situation in Gaza...I was thinking about the way that everything is being kept at a distance and shot through a soft lens by most of the media these days. The death figures, for example: not included in the MOH figures are those people who have died because of the war, but not directly from IDF military action. Several analyses suggest that at least 200,000 people in Gaza are dead today that would still be alive if Israel had not attacked and blockaded Gaza. That is decimation, in the original Roman meaning of the word: one in ten Palestinians. These deaths have arisen though lack of medical care and drugs, exposure, increased risks from malnutrition, epidemic diseases, lack of sanitation, extreme exhaustion from constant displacement, outright starvation, etc. And with the current starvation program that Israel has instituted, that number will grow massively. That's genocide. Mostly women and children and noncombatants, people just trying to live their lives and not terrorists who would cross a border and start killing people.

I much appreciated Arwa Madhawi's column in The Guardian this morning, pointing out what's going on and asking how people will justify their inaction (or confining their actions to strongly worded letters of other statements which are sufficiently anodyne as to not imperil their careers or social circles).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/22/israel-gaza-genocide

Now, when Israel is executing a “final solution” in Gaza, when it is far too late for dissent to make any difference, the tide is slowly starting to turn. Now that Gaza is flattened, turned into mass graves and rubble, people who have kept quiet for the past 19 months are slowly starting to speak up. Now that Israel and the US are not even trying to pretend that they aren’t intent on emptying Gaza and the West Bank of Palestinians, of “taking control” of all of the land, some criticism has started to trickle in.

Over in the UK, they’ve pulled out the “e” word. After 19 months of genocidal violence and almost three months of a starvation campaign the UK has decided to describe the situation as egregious. The UK, along with France and Canada, has threatened – and I’m sure Israel’s leaders are quaking in their boots over this – that there might be a “concrete” response if the mass killing and starvation continues....

....The criticism we are seeing now is simply an exercise in ass-covering. Performative opposition, so that in the future, when the true scale of the slaughter in Gaza is clear, the politicians and media figures responsible for enabling and justifying this horror for 19 months can say: “Look! I said something! I didn’t just stand by!” And what will you say? When future generations read about Gaza with horror and wonder how the western world, with all its moral superiority, its rule-based order and its focus on international human rights law, allowed a livestreamed genocide to happen, what will you say? When future generations learn that, for 19 months, we woke up every morning to videos of children being burned alive – bombed with weapons that the US taxpayer helped pay for and the western world helped justify – will you be able to say that you spoke up?

Too bloody right!

What is also disgusting is the way Trump is providing cover for this policy of genocide by devaluing the term pre-emptively, by falsely applying it to a few white farmers in S. Africa.

I will agree with String Junky, some Israeli politicians, including B Netanyahu, are criminally insane.
But, then again, it's not like there is a shortage of the criminally insane in the Palestinian Government, Hamas.
The insane on one side breed the insane on the other, The vicious circle never stops going round until all are insane, including every 'Gazan child'.

And I have to wonder ... If Ukraine had killed 1500 peaceful Russian concert goers, kidnapped several hundred, and was STILL holding a lot of them captive, would anyone blame Russia for attacking Ukraine and killing several times the numbers killed in Gaza ?
( just putting things in perspective )

Israel always seems to have differing standards applied to them.

6 minutes ago, MigL said:

I will agree with String Junky, some Israeli politicians, including B Netanyahu, are criminally insane.
But, then again, it's not like there is a shortage of the criminally insane in the Palestinian Government, Hamas.
The insane on one side breed the insane on the other, The vicious circle never stops going round until all are insane, including every 'Gazan child'.

And I have to wonder ... If Ukraine had killed 1500 peaceful Russian concert goers, kidnapped several hundred, and was STILL holding a lot of them captive, would anyone blame Russia for attacking Ukraine and killing several times the numbers killed in Gaza ?
( just putting things in perspective )

Israel always seems to have differing standards applied to them.

Israel always gets off extremely lightly in my opinion, especially with media coverage in the USA. There is no justification for collective punishment of the civilian population, which has been going on now for months. Gaza has been reduced to rubble. 2 million people are being made homeless, quite deliberately. And now they are being starved. And it is noteworthy that Israel has opposed all efforts by the UN to mitigate the conditions and has refused entry to journalists to report what is going on: https://www.thejc.com/news/uk/jewish-journalists-letter-access-gaza-ctlsjbhv. It has escalated from ethnic cleaning to genocide.

2 hours ago, StringJunky said:

"Every child, every baby in Gaza is an enemy. The enemy is not Hamxs... We need to conquer Gaza and colonize it and not leave a single Gazan child there. There is no other victory." - Moshe Feiglin. Israeli politician 2 days ago. They aren't hiding their real intent anymore.

Please understand their is a greater nuance, its not solely on Israel. I highly doubt Hamas has committed no war crimes.

2 hours ago, TheVat said:

The situation in Gaza...I was thinking about the way that everything is being kept at a distance and shot through a soft lens by most of the media these days. The death figures, for example: not included in the MOH figures are those people who have died because of the war, but not directly from IDF military action. Several analyses suggest that at least 200,000 people in Gaza are dead today that would still be alive if Israel had not attacked and blockaded Gaza. That is decimation, in the original Roman meaning of the word: one in ten Palestinians. These deaths have arisen though lack of medical care and drugs, exposure, increased risks from malnutrition, epidemic diseases, lack of sanitation, extreme exhaustion from constant displacement, outright starvation, etc. And with the current starvation program that Israel has instituted, that number will grow massively. That's genocide. Mostly women and children and noncombatants, people just trying to live their lives and not terrorists who would cross a border and start killing people.

I much appreciated Arwa Madhawi's column in The Guardian this morning, pointing out what's going on and asking how people will justify their inaction (or confining their actions to strongly worded letters of other statements which are sufficiently anodyne as to not imperil their careers or social circles).

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/may/22/israel-gaza-genocide

Now, when Israel is executing a “final solution” in Gaza, when it is far too late for dissent to make any difference, the tide is slowly starting to turn. Now that Gaza is flattened, turned into mass graves and rubble, people who have kept quiet for the past 19 months are slowly starting to speak up. Now that Israel and the US are not even trying to pretend that they aren’t intent on emptying Gaza and the West Bank of Palestinians, of “taking control” of all of the land, some criticism has started to trickle in.

Over in the UK, they’ve pulled out the “e” word. After 19 months of genocidal violence and almost three months of a starvation campaign the UK has decided to describe the situation as egregious. The UK, along with France and Canada, has threatened – and I’m sure Israel’s leaders are quaking in their boots over this – that there might be a “concrete” response if the mass killing and starvation continues....

....The criticism we are seeing now is simply an exercise in ass-covering. Performative opposition, so that in the future, when the true scale of the slaughter in Gaza is clear, the politicians and media figures responsible for enabling and justifying this horror for 19 months can say: “Look! I said something! I didn’t just stand by!” And what will you say? When future generations read about Gaza with horror and wonder how the western world, with all its moral superiority, its rule-based order and its focus on international human rights law, allowed a livestreamed genocide to happen, what will you say? When future generations learn that, for 19 months, we woke up every morning to videos of children being burned alive – bombed with weapons that the US taxpayer helped pay for and the western world helped justify – will you be able to say that you spoke up?

Keep a 2 state solution, or integrate both to be a unified state. Give enough global resources so Palestine can get back on their feet and significantly limit the amount of terrorist based presence in the region, stop illegal Israeli settlement all together and have Peacekeepers deployed in combat situations where Hamas militants encroach on Israeli towns, have everywhere in a 20 mile radius from a hospital a safe zone from aerial bombardment, increase the presence of emergency physicians and public health workers in Gaza, and hold both accountable for heinous crimes.

Both sides have committed very heinous crimes against man, we should be focused on curbing it not blaming a party.

2 hours ago, MigL said:

I will agree with String Junky, some Israeli politicians, including B Netanyahu, are criminally insane.
But, then again, it's not like there is a shortage of the criminally insane in the Palestinian Government, Hamas.

2 hours ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

Please understand their is a greater nuance, its not solely on Israel. I highly doubt Hamas has committed no war crimes.

Hamas runs Gaza, in much the same way that you could say Al Capone ran Chicago. It’s not like the people have much of a choice in the matter. Equating Hamas with the people living there is the opposite of nuance.

51 minutes ago, swansont said:

Hamas runs Gaza, in much the same way that you could say Al Capone ran Chicago. It’s not like the people have much of a choice in the matter. Equating Hamas with the people living there is the opposite of nuance.

I never said Hamas runs Gaza, Fatah and others also maintains slightly less significant presence there. I’m pointing out that this issue is way more complex and nuanced than a simple debate thread.

5 minutes ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

I never said Hamas runs Gaza, Fatah and others also maintains slightly less significant presence there. I’m pointing out that this issue is way more complex and nuanced than a simple debate thread

You said Hamas has committed war crimes, and I agree. So what does that have to do with Israel indiscriminately killing the inhabitants of Gaza, i.e. genocide?

53 minutes ago, swansont said:

So what does that have to do with Israel indiscriminately killing the inhabitants of Gaza, i.e. genocide?

It is there extremely poor attempt to eradicate terrorists from the area, though one of the shittiest tactics I have seen.

The word you’re looking for is whataboutism

55 minutes ago, iNow said:

The word you’re looking for is whataboutism

Interesting, thanks for the new word

https://apnews.com/article/gaza-palestinians-food-aid-israel-284fa12b037db604342be1b3ea2120b4

Still killing civilians, still starving them, still blocking medical aid, nothing has changed. Still funded by the US, still demolishing infrastructure with US manufactured bombs. I have no intention of letting anyone forget this reality.

And, as with all of these articles, the perennial Israeli attempt to sound like they give a shit:

"The Israeli military says it is investigating."

Really? And what are you finding, Israeli military? Anything you would care to share with the world?

They need to place staunch limitations on that you can’t bomb hospitals within a 6-8 km radius, I don’t know why in the 21st century with all that we have discovered that we still haven’t learned this. Has the world no watched and learned from Sarajevo?

1 hour ago, Sohan Lalwani said:

They need to place staunch limitations on that you can’t bomb hospitals within a 6-8 km radius, I don’t know why in the 21st century with all that we have discovered that we still haven’t learned this. Has the world no watched and learned from Sarajevo?

You need to consider the possibility that those bombing hospitals know exactly what they’re doing, and that people who decide they don’t care about the rules won’t be dissuaded by yet another rule

3 hours ago, swansont said:

You need to consider the possibility that those bombing hospitals know exactly what they’re doing, and that people who decide they don’t care about the rules won’t be dissuaded by yet another rule

I can only hope they follow their strict objective

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/19/killing-of-young-siblings-at-gaza-water-point-shows-seeking-lifes-essentials-now-a-deadly-peril

If I were a pitbull, I would find a way to clamp down on Netanyahu's groin and then hang there as long as possible.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2025/jul/19/gaza-israel-palestinians-killed-idf-fires-on-crowds

Edited July 19Jul 19 by TheVat
Accidental premature posting of incomplete post

https://www.nytimes.com/2025/07/24/world/middleeast/gaza-starvation.html?unlocked_article_code=1.Y08.EwGn.XHUloxRwrpu2&smid=url-share

“There is no one in Gaza now outside the scope of famine, not even myself,” said Dr. Ahmed al-Farra, who leads the pediatric ward at Nasser Hospital in southern Gaza. “I am speaking to you as a health official, but I, too, am searching for flour to feed my family.”

The World Food Program, an arm of the United Nations, said this week that the hunger crisis in Gaza had reached “new and astonishing levels of desperation, with a third of the population not eating for multiple days in a row.”

[...]

The hunger crisis is the result of human failings, with each of the involved parties blaming someone else for the suffering.

Israel accuses Hamas of engineering a narrative of starvation by looting aid trucks and disrupting the distribution of aid to Gazans. It also accuses the United Nations and other humanitarian organizations of failing to collect hundreds of truckloads of aid that have piled up on the Gaza side of the border crossings.

Aid groups blame Israel for laying siege to Gaza, restricting supplies and failing to provide safe routes for their convoys inside Gaza. The only solution, they have long said, is an extensive increase in food deliveries.

[...]

The leaders of Israel and Hamas are engaged in sluggish negotiations, through mediators, for another temporary cease-fire that could bring relief and have Hamas release hostages it is holding in the tunnels in exchange for Palestinian prisoners in Israeli custody.

Doctors warn that malnutrition in early childhood can have long-term effects, disrupting growth, cognitive ability and emotional development.

Mohammad Saqr, head of the nursing department at Nasser Medical Complex, said that on Monday afternoon alone, the hospital received 25 women and 10 children requesting intravenous glucose solution.

While the treatment may briefly relieve symptoms, Mr. Saqr warned, “they feel the hunger again soon after.” He added, “Some arrive shivering from hunger.”

The hospital’s limited supply of IV solution cannot meet the growing demand, he said, adding: “The team is exhausted from hunger. Yesterday, some staff members ate just 10 spoons of plain white rice.”

Al-Shifa Hospital in Gaza City had recorded three deaths from malnutrition in the previous 36 hours, Dr. Mohammad Abu Salmiya, the hospital director, said in an interview on Tuesday. One was a 5-month-old baby.