At the start I had thought to only use sustainable material like wood or stone which would decompose back to the land.

There are only a couple of things like tarps or liquid containers which are plastic.

Well I really needed access on a wet field and you have to get planning consent to build traditional tracks which could take many months and likely to be rejected but I found out about these mats, which would not require consent as they count as temporary surfaces and just lay on top of the ground, that are made from recycled plastic which everyone raves about as being amazing for adding stability even over the worst mud.

See here: https://www.mudcontrol.co.uk/

I have bought a few and sure enough they work amazingly. I would now like more to run a whole track to the other side of the land but I am feeling torn about putting a load of this none degradeable material on there.

I wasn't able to think of a better way given the above restrictions. If I were have to used stone I would have been looking at 40+ tons probably to make a proper solid surface as well as hiring contractors to lay it probably. With these I can just place them down myself.

I was told conversely that even if using compacted gravel this actually damages the soil due to the runoff and/or the engineering work involved or something so is it just a case of picking the lesser evil?

The access track is really important as I wanted to be able to get right into the land and after this I would like to stick to using degradeable things when I can.

Other green minded people use things like polytunnels and plastic sheeting to suppress weeds so isn't this just the same?

They are made from 100% recycled material so that is something but plastic is still plastic.

Edited February 7Feb 7 by user801028

Ethically? Not at all. Healthful? Crops may contain micro and nanoplastics. 

Sounds like a great solution to me. You are finding a use for recycled materials which only makes the demand for recycling greater. I suspect using recycled milk jugs will be much better for the environment than all the fuel that would go into quarrying and transporting stone. And if you no longer want to use it you should be able to recycle the product once again.

There's a guy near me that has a drive going over grass and it's great. If you put tarmac down, that's got to be worse. To reinstate that area, all you have to do is pull it up. I think the overall environmental consequence is a fair bit less than the limited leaching it's going to do.

12 hours ago, LuckyR said:

Ethically? Not at all. Healthful? Crops may contain micro and nanoplastics. 

You don't seem to understand the question...

On 2/7/2025 at 12:10 AM, user801028 said:

was told conversely that even if using compacted gravel this actually damages the soil due to the runoff and/or the engineering work involved or something so is it just a case of picking the lesser evil?

Who told you that?  Gravel is water-permeable, easily spread, and tends to stay in place.  Plastic is a shedder of nanoparticles - oil companies are trying to downplay this because they know plastic products will be their main profit source when the planets vehicle fleet is all EVs.

On 2/7/2025 at 12:10 AM, user801028 said:

Other green minded people use things like polytunnels and plastic sheeting to suppress weeds so isn't this just the same?

Green minded people are avoiding plastic. Recycling plastic is promoted by the oil companies because it "greenwashes" the toxic brew of leachates and microparticles that a robust plastic economy creates.  It's all petroleum wolves in sheep's clothing.  

Other folks are saying nice things about recycling, and it would all be lovely if plastic was not a uniquely persistent material.  Tiny bits of it will stick around, getting into our water and food and tissues for thousands of years.  

 

https://oceanliteracy.unesco.org/plastic-pollution-ocean/

Edited March 21Mar 21 by TheVat

33 minutes ago, TheVat said:

Other folks are saying nice things about recycling, and it would all be lovely if plastic was not a uniquely persistent material.

If we don't recycle it into things like mud control tracks what will happen to it? 

I remember when disposable diapers were the worst thing since unsliced bread, until we looked at the harm done by using cloth diapers. 

No question plastics are bad but I'm guessing the answer of what to do with old milk jugs is not as simple as 'don't recycle them'.

18 hours ago, TheVat said:

Other folks are saying nice things about recycling, and it would all be lovely if plastic was not a uniquely persistent material.

Is it though?

Evolution will catch up, despite our moral outrage, ethics may give us the opportunity to board the gravy train... 🤞

Use what you want. - there's nothing wrong with plastic Live by your own ethics - not online moralists

40 minutes ago, PhilGeis said:

Use what you want. - there's nothing wrong with plastic Live by your own ethics - not online moralists

Isn't microplastics from degradation a potential issue - though no idea how serious?

On 2/7/2025 at 7:10 AM, user801028 said:

At the start I had thought to only use sustainable material like wood or stone which would decompose back to the land.

Isn't there something in the New Testament about judging others ?

I am going to say +1 to the OP for giving the subject serious and proper consideration, although I am probably too late now to tender any useful advice.

So instead here is a bit of my own experience.

In the early 1970's I mistakenly persuaded my company to spend a substantial sum of money laying a geotextile fibre that was being promoted by way of 'technical' articles in the civil engineering press.

The articles declared that the fabric separated the mud from the water, allowing the water to rise and disperse or be dispersed, whilst holding back the soil particles.

So we laid this stuff onto thick clay, and you can guess the name I got when we all watched the fabric disappear into the mud.

Yes my name was mud with that company.

The moral of this is that it depends on what it is laid on.

If the soil is a thinnish layer on something hard (eg chalk or gravel) it will work well.

But if it tens or hundreds of metres of fine particles such as silt or clay it will fail.

Ethically I personally see nothing wrong with appropriate use of 'plastics'.
In fact I have long held that it is only commercial greed that promotes gross their over use ( along with other oil industry products) when we should in fact be hoarding this resource, ekeing it out over time for only the most essential uses where it can bring great benefit.

Again kudos to the OP who notes the financial and environmental cost of most traditional solutions.

Geotextiles have come a long way since the 1970s and their use can greatly reduce environmental impact in appropriate circumstances.

Edited May 15May 15 by studiot

2 hours ago, PhilGeis said:

Use what you want. - there's nothing wrong with plastic Live by your own ethics - not online moralists

Indeed, boring old morality verses what I want, no contest, I'll happily kill my descendents; it's virtually ethical... 🙄

The ethical question would seem to depend on getting more data to address the scientific question of how plastic degrades, what chemicals leach out, and what microparticles or nanoparticles might do in both soil and water. Since plastic nanoparticles are being found in animal tissues, including humans, it would seem relevant to matters of public health and ecosystems that sustain us. Why someone would do a drive-by post blandly dismissing all these questions is more a question of ideological gaslighting, I would suspect. This being a science thread, I'd prefer to keep the focus on how to gain more scientific knowledge on the topic.

On 2/6/2025 at 11:10 PM, user801028 said:

At the start I had thought to only use sustainable material like wood or stone which would decompose back to the land.

There are only a couple of things like tarps or liquid containers which are plastic.

Well I really needed access on a wet field and you have to get planning consent to build traditional tracks which could take many months and likely to be rejected but I found out about these mats, which would not require consent as they count as temporary surfaces and just lay on top of the ground, that are made from recycled plastic which everyone raves about as being amazing for adding stability even over the worst mud.

See here: https://www.mudcontrol.co.uk/

I have bought a few and sure enough they work amazingly. I would now like more to run a whole track to the other side of the land but I am feeling torn about putting a load of this none degradeable material on there.

I wasn't able to think of a better way given the above restrictions. If I were have to used stone I would have been looking at 40+ tons probably to make a proper solid surface as well as hiring contractors to lay it probably. With these I can just place them down myself.

I was told conversely that even if using compacted gravel this actually damages the soil due to the runoff and/or the engineering work involved or something so is it just a case of picking the lesser evil?

The access track is really important as I wanted to be able to get right into the land and after this I would like to stick to using degradeable things when I can.

Other green minded people use things like polytunnels and plastic sheeting to suppress weeds so isn't this just the same?

They are made from 100% recycled material so that is something but plastic is still plastic.

Other than nanoparticulate matter or microplastics, I say you are good to go :D

A further necessary consideration.

After all the man is building a roadway, not trailing polywhatsit fibres in the ocean.

What are mud control slabs made of ?

Well following the trail it appears that they are made from german 'yellow bag' certified end user plastics.

https://fkur.com/en/knowledgebase/what-are-recyclates/

14 hours ago, studiot said:

A further necessary consideration.

After all the man is building a roadway, not trailing polywhatsit fibres in the ocean.

What are mud control slabs made of ?

Well following the trail it appears that they are made from german 'yellow bag' certified end user plastics.

https://fkur.com/en/knowledgebase/what-are-recyclates/

Indeed, but let's hope bacteria catch on to the yummy taste...

Edited May 16May 16 by dimreepr

On 5/15/2025 at 8:26 AM, dimreepr said:

Indeed, boring old morality verses what I want, no contest, I'll happily kill my descendents; it's virtually ethical... 🙄

On 5/15/2025 at 8:26 AM, dimreepr said:

Indeed, boring old morality verses what I want, no contest, I'll happily kill my descendents; it's virtually ethical... 🙄

He's killing no descendants. Please - as scientists let's proceed by the risk assessment process not sensational hyperbole.

As far as I know, recycled plastic is actually more toxic than 'virgin' plastic. I stopped using and especially drinking/eating out of plastics as much as I can but I especially avoid any and all recycled plastics, specifically for health reasons.

Unfortunately, I do not know anything about construction so I'm not able to suggest an alternative. It sounds like you've done your research so if there's no alternative then I would say you're doing the best you can with what you have at the moment and I think that's better than what most people would do. I don't know if I would call it an ethical option but I know I would call you an ethical person based on your decision-making process.

https://phys.org/news/2025-02-experts-toxic-chemicals-plastics.html

https://baug.ethz.ch/en/news-and-events/news/2024/03/blog-recycling-plastic-is-not-a-quick-fix.html

https://theconversation.com/dangerous-chemicals-found-in-recycled-plastics-making-them-unsafe-for-use-experts-explain-the-hazards-220498

3 hours ago, pechmogul said:

As far as I know, recycled plastic is actually more toxic than 'virgin' plastic. I stopped using and especially drinking/eating out of plastics as much as I can but I especially avoid any and all recycled plastics, specifically for health reasons.

I've taken a similar approach. Encouraging plant fiber based packaging seems more effective and, from the data I've seen, lower carbon footprint than recycling plastic. Petro industry is really pushing plastics and construction options like vinyl flooring and fencing, as they seek ways to keep pumping crude oil from the ground while the world's transport shifts towards EVs.