TheVat Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 Tired of harassment-level ads that constantly drop over the page one is trying to navigate to. Is there a way to get some feedback to @blike and go back to the usual banner ads or other formats one can scroll past? Does anyone really think they're going to sell a product by shoving it in our cyber-faces over and over? I would think there is an inverse relationship between rudeness of ads and sales generated. SFN is better than this. And no, I don't want to change my wifi provider, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KJW Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 I think many websites are adopting this as their business model for ads: 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 4 hours ago, TheVat said: Tired of harassment-level ads that constantly drop over the page one is trying to navigate to. Is there a way to get some feedback to @blike and go back to the usual banner ads or other formats one can scroll past? Does anyone really think they're going to sell a product by shoving it in our cyber-faces over and over? I would think there is an inverse relationship between rudeness of ads and sales generated. SFN is better than this. And no, I don't want to change my wifi provider, thanks. This looks like another example of “enshittification” : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification Cory Doctorow gave an excellent lecture on this in January. Here is a link to the transcript. It’s very well written, rather in the style of Michael Lewis’s Liar’s Poker: https://doctorow.medium.com/my-mcluhan-lecture-on-enshittification-ea343342b9bc Long, but very readable - and worth the read. He muses that we may be entering the enshittocene era. Edited February 17 by exchemist 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSC Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 6 hours ago, TheVat said: Tired of harassment-level ads that constantly drop over the page one is trying to navigate to. Is there a way to get some feedback to @blike and go back to the usual banner ads or other formats one can scroll past? Does anyone really think they're going to sell a product by shoving it in our cyber-faces over and over? I would think there is an inverse relationship between rudeness of ads and sales generated. SFN is better than this. And no, I don't want to change my wifi provider, thanks. Some of the ads are also pretty... tasteless or just don't fit the venue of a science forum. I had one telling me my guardian angel was watching over me, but since it was an ad I couldn't comment asking it to provide hard evidence of angels. no fair! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 1 hour ago, MSC said: Some of the ads are also pretty... tasteless or just don't fit the venue of a science forum. I had one telling me my guardian angel was watching over me, but since it was an ad I couldn't comment asking it to provide hard evidence of angels. no fair! I don't think whatever algorithm selects the ads to display considers the forum they are displayed on. It's probably much more to do with what it thinks based on whatever it has gleaned about your browsing and on-line purchase history. Since I do what I can to minimise this , e.g. via blocking trackers, I get weird ad selections: funeral services, drilling machinery, women's fashion and ads in Chinese characters. (When I looked up a few words in Dutch for another forum, I started getting Dutch websites popping up on my search engine too - it's all rather creepy.) All a bit baffling and annoying, but I tell myself the alternative would be that we would have to pay a subscription for a forum like this, so it doesn't do to grumble too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MSC Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 hours ago, exchemist said: I don't think whatever algorithm selects the ads to display considers the forum they are displayed on. It's probably much more to do with what it thinks based on whatever it has gleaned about your browsing and on-line purchase history. Since I do what I can to minimise this , e.g. via blocking trackers, I get weird ad selections: funeral services, drilling machinery, women's fashion and ads in Chinese characters. (When I looked up a few words in Dutch for another forum, I started getting Dutch websites popping up on my search engine too - it's all rather creepy.) All a bit baffling and annoying, but I tell myself the alternative would be that we would have to pay a subscription for a forum like this, so it doesn't do to grumble too much. Actually that makes sense. My ex converted to the church of latter day saints and I've hosted their missionaries for dinner and sometimes had to google something to do with their beliefs. It's not you science forum, it's me. Sometimes I swear the algorithms are getting data from our phones mics though, there have been more than a few occasions where we have definitely not keyword searched or clicked on anything related to something we've talked about and all of a sudden... it pops up, unless it can also make predictions about what people are going to be thinking or discussing? Either prospect is creepy as hell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swansont Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 My reading of the OP is not about the content, it's the fact that they are full-page rather than banner. I don't know if that's affected by which browser you use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 27 minutes ago, MSC said: Actually that makes sense. My ex converted to the church of latter day saints and I've hosted their missionaries for dinner and sometimes had to google something to do with their beliefs. It's not you science forum, it's me. Sometimes I swear the algorithms are getting data from our phones mics though, there have been more than a few occasions where we have definitely not keyword searched or clicked on anything related to something we've talked about and all of a sudden... it pops up, unless it can also make predictions about what people are going to be thinking or discussing? Either prospect is creepy as hell. Actually that suspicion about phone mics is something I have also heard from other people. Either it's just a meme or there is something in it. Perhaps we should look the topic up on the web, oh wait .......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 2 hours ago, swansont said: My reading of the OP is not about the content, it's the fact that they are full-page rather than banner. I don't know if that's affected by which browser you use. It's a new feature on a number of forums I subscribe to. It started about a year ago, I think. When you attempt to navigate between threads, or return to the home screen, you sometimes - not always - get instead a full page ad, which you have to cancel before you can see the screen you want. For what it's worth I'm on Apple with Safari as my browser. What makes it newly tiresome for me is this aggressively advertised Chinese outfit TEMU, presenting you with a totally random range of crap, sometimes including completely unidentifiable objects. I've no idea who these people are - a sort of Asiatic Amazon perhaps? - but they are of zero interest. Edited February 17 by exchemist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 13 hours ago, TheVat said: Tired of harassment-level ads that constantly drop over the page one is trying to navigate to. Is there a way to get some feedback to @blike and go back to the usual banner ads or other formats one can scroll past? Does anyone really think they're going to sell a product by shoving it in our cyber-faces over and over? I would think there is an inverse relationship between rudeness of ads and sales generated. SFN is better than this. And no, I don't want to change my wifi provider, thanks. The ads are personalized. Take a screenshot of what ads you are talking about.. Are you complaining about their quantity or quality? When I open SFN from my Linux desktop, logged in or not, I don't see any ATM ads. When I open SFN from my cell phone, I see some ads. On neither of them am I logged into either a Google account or an Apple account. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 8 hours ago, exchemist said: This looks like another example of “enshittification” : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification Thanks, the term (though not the trend) was new to me. It's why I don't entirely object to a small annual subscription fee to a web forum (perhaps set up as a premium option, so those who cannot pay are still able to participate). 4 minutes ago, exchemist said: What makes it newly tiresome for me is this aggressively advertised Chinese outfit TEMU, presenting you with a totally random range of crap, sometimes including completely unidentifiable objects. I've no idea who these people are - a sort of Asiatic Amazon perhaps? - but they are of zero interest. Yep. My wife knows about it. Apparently they are trying to edge out Amazon by means of massive floods of random crap ads, hoping to get just one click which takes you to absurdly cheap deals which are loss leaders promoted to grab market share from Amazon and get people hooked. DO NOT CLICK, says me spouse, and they diminish after a while. 2 minutes ago, Sensei said: The ads are personalized. Take a screenshot of what ads you are talking about.. Are you complaining about their quantity or quality? When I open SFN from my Linux desktop, logged in or not, I don't see any ATM ads. When I open SFN from my cell phone, I see some ads. On neither of them am I logged into either a Google account or an Apple account. I automatically scrub my browsing info (cache, cookies, etc) so the ads are generally wild and incorrect guesses. As the OP indicated, I object to the quantity and the format which is used on my Chrome device. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 5 minutes ago, TheVat said: I automatically scrub my browsing info (cache, cookies, etc) so the ads are generally wild and incorrect guesses. As the OP indicated, I object to the quantity and the format which is used on my Chrome device. Check if it is possible and install LineageOS on it. https://lineageos.org/ If you're using the Chrome browser on an Android device, don't expect them to chop down the tree they're sitting on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 3 hours ago, MSC said: Sometimes I swear the algorithms are getting data from our phones mics though, there have been more than a few occasions where we have definitely not keyword searched or clicked on anything related to something we've talked about and all of a sudden... it pops up, unless it can also make predictions about what people are going to be thinking or discussing? Either prospect is creepy as hell. I've had that happen a couple times and ascribed it to coincidence and a certain amount of attentional bias - i.e. if I had a chat about turnips I'm thinking more about turnips and so I notice the turnip sale ad my mind would otherwise have passed over. (watch out for turnip ads, everyone!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) Ads bring money to the site owner. Scientists are smart enough not to click on most of them. Therefore, the return on investment is zero or marginal. So people who own a website will try to make the ads more aggressive or force people to click them by mistake, etc. etc. tactics are used. Streaming sites such as YouTube display 5-second ads before allowing you to skip. Some other streaming sites require 30-second views, or I even know of one that requires 5 minutes long ads watching. It is so aggressive that it detects if the user has clicked on another browser window and pauses the video ads, until you finish 5 minutes... Edited February 17 by Sensei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) Some TVs have 5 or more microphones in them, listening for keywords. Ditto other devices. Edited February 17 by StringJunky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 General reply to all, re ad format Here's an analogy: when you drive down a road, you may see billboards. You may take note of whatever they're peddling or ignore them. The billboard doesn't walk over to the middle of the road and demand that you notice it before you can continue on your way. This is what the page wall ads here are doing. I don't care what the budgetary excuses are for this. If the owner of SFN is really in this for the money (unlikely given he is a holistic medicine physician in Florida), then I have no problem sending him $10/yr or whatever. JMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 6 minutes ago, StringJunky said: Some TVs have 5 or more microphones in them, listening for keywords. Ditto other devices. Do you know that ? I should have though that could be grounds for a lawsuit for invasion of privacy. Can I read about this somewhere? (As it happens, I don't have a TV, but I think it would be scandalous if true.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 14 minutes ago, StringJunky said: Some TVs have 5 or more microphones in them, listening for keywords. Ditto other devices. You have AOSP. You can download, install, compile, upload your own OS, and modify it the way you want it to work.. 5 minutes ago, exchemist said: Do you know that ? I should have though that could be grounds for a lawsuit for invasion of privacy. Can I read about this somewhere? (As it happens, I don't have a TV, but I think it would be scandalous if true.) Are you living under a rock? https://www.google.com/search?q=siri+listens+to+everyone Say "Hey, Siri" or "Hello, Google," etc. If the app is open, the microphone has to listen to everything to detect your words. https://www.google.com/search?q=siri+data+leak Edited February 17 by Sensei Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 6 minutes ago, StringJunky said: Some TVs have 5 or more microphones in them, listening for keywords. I've heard this, don't know if that's a real thing. I opted not to buy a so-called Smart TV due to the suspicion about them and the mics. Five seems like a lot, though! 🙂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 5 minutes ago, TheVat said: I've heard this, don't know if that's a real thing. I opted not to buy a so-called Smart TV due to the suspicion about them and the mics. Five seems like a lot, though! 🙂 It's real enough. Just look at the spec of a modern tv. Our dear respective governments conceived of Fallen Angel around 2017, which was an exercise in remotely accessing and controlling smart tv's. The brave insider who shared this is now doing 40 years for treasonous acts in the US. The actual outcome of the exercise, is irrelevant in my eyes, as it clearly demonstrates our governments have the proactive intent to undermine whatever privacy we have left. Edited February 17 by StringJunky 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
exchemist Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 (edited) 7 minutes ago, Sensei said: You have AOSP. You can download, install, compile, upload your own OS, and modify it the way you want it to work.. Are you living under a rock? https://www.google.com/search?q=siri+listens+to+everyone Say "Hey, Siri" or "Hello, Google," etc. If the app is open, the microphone has to listen to everything to detect your words. You don't have Siri or equivalent, permanently active, in your TV though, do you? Obviously if you have Siri active, you have chosen to have it listen to your voice for commands. What this is about is having an IT system listen to (and send data on) your voice without your consent. Edited February 17 by exchemist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sensei Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 5 minutes ago, TheVat said: I've heard this, don't know if that's a real thing. I opted not to buy a so-called Smart TV due to the suspicion about them and the mics. Five seems like a lot, though! 🙂 Simply, don't plug TV to the Internet.. Make sure there is no open WiFi around you etc. Don't let TV to use your WiFi hotspot created by phone etc. etc. If you do so, change password on the phone every time you are done with the TV. ps. I know a person who cuts the circuit connections on a Visa debit card that allows NFC/RFID transmission.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 5 minutes ago, Sensei said: Simply, don't plug TV to the Internet.. Make sure there is no open WiFi around you etc. Don't let TV to use your WiFi hotspot created by phone etc. etc. If you do so, change password on the phone every time you are done with the TV. ps. I know a person who cuts the circuit connections on a Visa debit card that allows NFC/RFID transmission.... I'm in the market for a tv, so this stuff is high in my mind atm.I have read to avoid using the in-built wifi, primarily because tv manufacturers only issue software updates for two or three years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheVat Posted February 17 Author Share Posted February 17 (edited) Simple method: Roku stick on ten year old LED tv. No mic. No power to tv and Roku unless we're watching. Power strip off. @StringJunky I didn't see any text in your earlier reply. Zen? WAIT NEVER MIND. The whole post appeared after refresh. Edited February 17 by TheVat Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted February 17 Share Posted February 17 2 minutes ago, TheVat said: Simple method: Roku stick on ten year old LED tv. No mic. No power to tv and Roku unless we're watching. Power strip off. @StringJunky I didn't see any text in your earlier reply. Zen? WAIT NEVER MIND. The whole post appeared after refresh. Sorry. I accidently posted before adding text. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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