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2 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

It's not about a god, it's about a higher power. The reasoning is supposed to show how a higher power creates around consciousness.

You're saying the same thing in different words over and over again. We've demonstrated that we are not inclined to accept your reasoning, or lack thereof. Why invest more energy?

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Eise; We meet again.   So you think that Feynman knew what he was talking about? Then why did he have such contempt for Philosophy? After I realized how brilliant he was,, I wondered

I'll be generous and let you in on a little secret about Magnetism;   Length of Verse = 14.65 billion light years Time until our Magnetic Cage fully formed = 78,000 years(Earth Years)

Kindly summarize Benjamin Franklin's contribution to the discipline of Philosophy. Also note that strangely, pretty much everyone reading your and Eise's post side by side, comes to the conclusio

2 minutes ago, YaDinghus said:

You're saying the same thing in different words over and over again. We've demonstrated that we are not inclined to accept your reasoning, or lack thereof. Why invest more energy?

Denying my reasoning is not refuting my reasoning.

4 minutes ago, beecee said:

A higher power with supernatural abilities? Stop being obtuse. It's an unscientific concept, pure and simple and we have absolutely no evidence for it.,

Evidence for a higher power is clear in number synchronicity. Supernatural or not, it doesn't refute the concept of a higher power.

 

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1 minute ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Denying my reasoning is not refuting my reasoning.

Deflecting is not answering my question:

6 minutes ago, YaDinghus said:

Why invest more energy?

 

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1 hour ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Evidence for a higher power is clear in number synchronicity. Supernatural or not, it doesn't refute the concept of a higher power.

Number synchronicity is not evidence, it is lack of understanding of statistics (which humans have a horrible intuition for), combined with our extraordinary pattern finding skills (which we have evolved to catch heaps of false positives).

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13 minutes ago, Bender said:

Number synchronicity is not evidence, it is lack of understanding of statistics (which humans have a horrible intuition for), combined with our extraordinary pattern finding skills (which we have evolved to catch heaps of false positives).

They can be evidence when they are all taken into consideration as a whole and not looked at as individual cases with coincidences. Once the perspective is changed in this way, patterns emerge which clearly show some sort of synchronicity to be occurring.

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40 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

They can be evidence when they are all taken into consideration as a whole and not looked at as individual cases with coincidences. Once the perspective is changed in this way, patterns emerge which clearly show some sort of synchronicity to be occurring.

Only in the minds and opinions of those that by chance happen to see some coincidence that just happens to align with personal mythical, unscientific beliefs. Then the gullible and Impressionable will quickly latch on to it.

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8 minutes ago, beecee said:

Only in the minds and opinions of those that by chance happen to see some coincidence that just happens to align with personal mythical, unscientific beliefs. Then the gullible and Impressionable will quickly latch on to it.

They are only coincidences when you see them individually. When you see the whole picture, patterns will emerge.

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1 minute ago, Endercreeper01 said:

They are only coincidences when you see them individually. When you see the whole picture, patterns will emerge.

And patterns also can be coincidences. In essence, again re number synchronicity, what you claim is garbage and unsupported by the scientific method..

 

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Just now, beecee said:

And patterns also can be coincidences. In essence, again re number synchronicity, what you claim is garbage and unsupported by the scientific method..

 

Why does it have to be a strictly scientific way of proving a higher power? After all, it is about proving a higher level using reason rather than rigor.

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10 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Why does it have to be a strictly scientific way of proving a higher power? After all, it is about proving a higher level using reason rather than rigor.

Pray tell, what reason is it that you see that installs any baseless mythical supernatural/paranormal nonsense over the rigor of science supported by observational and experimental data? 

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23 minutes ago, beecee said:

Pray tell, what reason is it that you see that installs any baseless mythical supernatural/paranormal nonsense over the rigor of science supported by observational and experimental data? 

It's not "supernatural", it's philosophical.

And t's not being put in favor of any scientific process.

Sometimes a different process is necessary to find knowledge, outside of the reach of scientific inquiry.

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6 hours ago, Endercreeper01 said:

It's not about a god, it's about a higher power. The reasoning is supposed to show how a higher power creates around consciousness.

It doesn't matter whether you call your belief "god" or "higher power" or "batman". It is just a belief. There is no evidence.

And you have shown no reasoning beyond: "I believe therefore it must be true"

6 hours ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Denying my reasoning is not refuting my reasoning.

There is no reasoning to refute.

We get it. Really we do. You believe in god/higher-power/supeman/magic/whatever. So what?

Until you have some evidence, we don't care what you believe. 

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2 hours ago, Endercreeper01 said:

It's not "supernatural", it's philosophical.

It's  unscientific philosophical nonsense.

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And t's not being put in favor of any scientific process.

Agreed, it's something only conceived in your mind.

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Sometimes a different process is necessary to find knowledge, outside of the reach of scientific inquiry.

Baseless unscientific, philosophical nonsense, does not surpass science and the scientific methodology. 

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23 minutes ago, beecee said:

It's  unscientific philosophical nonsense.

Agreed, it's something only conceived in your mind.

Baseless unscientific, philosophical nonsense, does not surpass science and the scientific methodology. 

It isn't supposed to surpass scientific thought, rather it accompanies it instead in gaining a new perspective and understanding of the universe.

36 minutes ago, Strange said:

It doesn't matter whether you call your belief "god" or "higher power" or "batman". It is just a belief. There is no evidence.

And you have shown no reasoning beyond: "I believe therefore it must be true"

There is no reasoning to refute.

We get it. Really we do. You believe in god/higher-power/supeman/magic/whatever. So what?

Until you have some evidence, we don't care what you believe. 

Numbers are evidence of a higher power, when specific numbers and sequences appear over and over again in the universe.

The reasoning is that consciousness creates reality, because consciousness is what truly has a fundamental existence which makes it necessary for it to create everything around it, so that it can exist within it.

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3 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

It isn't supposed to surpass scientific thought, rather it accompanies it instead in gaining a new perspective and understanding of the universe.

It does nothing of the sort, and all I see is more obfuscation and dancing around the issue.

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Numbers are evidence of a higher power, when specific numbers and sequences appear over and over again in the universe.

No, just simply coincidences.

 

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The reasoning is that consciousness creates reality, because consciousness is what truly has a fundamental existence which makes it necessary for it to create everything around it, so that it can exist within it.

And the empty unsupported, unscientific rhetoric continues.

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5 hours ago, Endercreeper01 said:

They can be evidence when they are all taken into consideration as a whole and not looked at as individual cases with coincidences. Once the perspective is changed in this way, patterns emerge which clearly show some sort of synchronicity to be occurring.

Off course patterns emerge, because it is statistics.

Eg statistics dictates that every group of 20-25 people roughly has a 50% chance of containing two persons with the same birthday. If you look at an entire school, about half the classes will have such a pair. You can divide the classes by year or by topic and in each category, roughly half will have such a pair. There you go: a patterns. 

Another example: people wake in the middle of the night and see 3:33 on the clock. You search the Internet and find others who saw 3:33, or perhaps 2:22, because those are not unusual times to wake up (you will never see 8:88 in the middle of the night), and some people look at the clock 10 times each night, so chances get pretty high. If we see 3:28, we're likely to still be awake by 3:33 and look again, because we like patterns. So you get a pattern of people supposedly waking at 3:33, much like you get patterns of people waking at 3:12, but nobody cares about that.

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Just now, beecee said:

It does nothing of the sort, and all I see is more obfuscation and dancing around the issue.

No, just simply coincidences.

 

And the empty unsupported, unscientific rhetoric continues.

What is wrong with the idea that consciousness is fundamental to existence?

Just now, Bender said:

Off course patterns emerge, because it is statistics.

Eg statistics dictates that every group of 20-25 people roughly has a 50% chance of containing two persons with the same birthday. If you look at an entire school, about half the classes will have such a pair. You can divide the classes by year or by topic and in each category, roughly half will have such a pair. There you go: a patterns. 

Another example: people wake in the middle of the night and see 3:33 on the clock. You search the Internet and find others who saw 3:33, or perhaps 2:22, because those are not unusual times to wake up (you will never see 8:88 in the middle of the night), and some people look at the clock 10 times each night, so chances get pretty high. If we see 3:28, we're likely to still be awake by 3:33 and look again, because we like patterns. So you get a pattern of people supposedly waking at 3:33, much like you get patterns of people waking at 3:12, but nobody cares about that.

How about a number such as the phi ratio appearing over and over again in the universe?

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1 minute ago, Endercreeper01 said:

What is wrong with the idea that consciousness is fundamental to existence?

Nothing, but this is a science forum, and nobody cares about ideas without evidence. 

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3 minutes ago, Bender said:

Nothing, but this is a science forum, and nobody cares about ideas without evidence. 

Evidence can be seen throughout reality as the unique appearance of specific numbers over and over again, as a synchronicity. It is evidence of a higher power at work in the universe.

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5 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Evidence can be seen throughout reality as the unique appearance of specific numbers over and over again, as a synchronicity. It is evidence of a higher power at work in the universe.

It's at best an indication, probably an illusion, and at worst a delusion

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1 minute ago, YaDinghus said:

It's at best an indication, probably an illusion, and at worst a delusion

It becomes statistically less and less likely to be a coincidence as it appears more and more times in reality. Eventually, it becomes obvious that it is not a coincidence.

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2 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

It becomes statistically less and less likely to be a coincidence as it appears more and more times in reality. Eventually, it becomes obvious that it is not a coincidence.

I'm okay if this eventuality is at the heat death of the universe

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28 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

It becomes statistically less and less likely to be a coincidence as it appears more and more times in reality. Eventually, it becomes obvious that it is not a coincidence.

No, statistics predicts that stuff occurs more often in a larger group or longer Period of time.

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20 minutes ago, Endercreeper01 said:

Well it isn't, so it counts as it shows the existence of a higher power.

No, just another totally false statement without any evidence. 

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