dimreepr Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 You were- at length. You failed. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/104032-does-almighy-god-view-all-people-in-the-same-light/page-6 If you say so... The only thing I've failed at, is persuading you my hypothesis IS valid; ah well, can't win em all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 15, 2017 Author Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) If you say so... The only thing I've failed at, is persuading you my hypothesis IS valid; ah well, can't win em all. So you think the bible (I suppose only the NT ?) teaches contentment? Can you give an example? What makes you content when you read the bible? Or maybe you mean the bible teaches people how to be content...the ability to be content is inborn, it's an important survivaltool. And your parents(or whoever educates you) helps the devellopment of this survivaltool. Edited June 15, 2017 by Itoero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 15, 2017 Share Posted June 15, 2017 (edited) If you say so... The only thing I've failed at, is persuading you my hypothesis IS valid; ah well, can't win em all. At the risk of being absurdly off topic, your hypothesis was " I DO believe the bible to contains wisdom that seems to elude secularism. ... bible, was never intended to be taken literally, it's a collection of stories and parables designed to teach other people how to be content; " which is plainly absurd as discussed. In respect of my question which was What wisdom is available in religion, but not science? Your reply None at all, I've never suggested otherwise. seems, frankly, dishonest. Edited June 15, 2017 by John Cuthber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) So you think the bible (I suppose only the NT ?) teaches contentment? Yes, that's my hypothesis (JC, ohhh... the irony) but for all the original major religions/bibles. Can you give an example? The sermon on the mount. Or maybe you mean the bible teaches people how to be content...the ability to be content is inborn, I have conceded, a few post's ago, that contentment is innate "A being without fear tends to be content, then we grew up and learnt how"; do you see an abundance of contentment in the world around you? Contentment when lost is hard to find in the forest of life, sometimes only a clear path (yellow bricks, occasionally) can lead the way back. At the risk of being absurdly off topic, your hypothesis was " I DO believe the bible to contains wisdom that seems to elude secularism. ... bible, was never intended to be taken literally, it's a collection of stories and parables designed to teach other people how to be content; " which is plainly absurd as discussed. In respect of my question which was Your reply seems, frankly, dishonest. As does this post. Please see above for my actual hypothesis, which is valid despite your level of credulity. Edited June 16, 2017 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 16, 2017 Author Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) Yes, that's my hypothesis (JC, ohhh... the irony) but for all the original major religions/bibles. The sermon on the mount. I have conceded, a few post's ago, that contentment is innate "A being without fear tends to be content, then we grew up and learnt how"; do you see an abundance of contentment in the world around you? Contentment when lost is hard to find in the forest of life, sometimes only a clear path (yellow bricks, occasionally) can lead the way back. A Again, contentment is not innate, the ability to be content or to be in fear is innate. edit: If contentment is innate then you can't know if you are maltreating a baby. Edited June 16, 2017 by Itoero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 16, 2017 Share Posted June 16, 2017 (edited) Yes, that's my hypothesis (JC, ohhh... the irony) but for all the original major religions/bibles. The sermon on the mount. I have conceded, a few post's ago, that contentment is innate "A being without fear tends to be content, then we grew up and learnt how"; do you see an abundance of contentment in the world around you? Contentment when lost is hard to find in the forest of life, sometimes only a clear path (yellow bricks, occasionally) can lead the way back. As does this post. Please see above for my actual hypothesis, which is valid despite your level of credulity. People will read what you said - here's a reminder of your hypothesis- and don't forget that it's a verbatim quote- " I DO believe the bible to contains wisdom that seems to elude secularism." and, re my post asking "What wisdom is available in religion, but not science?" You said " None at all, I've never suggested otherwise." They will then make their own judgements. Again, contentment is not innate, the ability to be content or to be in fear is innate. edit: If contentment is innate then you can't know if you are maltreating a baby. Yes you can; because they scream at you. There's a difference between the idea that "contentment is innate" and "contentment needs to be learned". Where do you learn it from? Clearly Dimreeper's suggestion that you learn it from the Bible(s) is absurd. Edited June 16, 2017 by John Cuthber Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 Yes you can; because they scream at you. There's a difference between the idea that "contentment is innate" and "contentment needs to be learned". Where do you learn it from? Clearly Dimreeper's suggestion that you learn it from the Bible(s) is absurd. Because you are born with possibilities. It seems harsh but the only certainty when you are born is that you will die. You are born with the abilty to be content or to be in fear. I think during your education you learn how to deal with those abilities because people obviously prefer to be content then to be in fear, that's why people avoid circumstances or environments which can cause fear or they take necessary precautions to prevent fear. It's indeed absurd to claim you need religion to be content. I heard it very oftern that people think you need religion to be a moral person. That's a reason why atheists are often so mistrusted in the USA...they seem to think any religion is better then no religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) People will read what you said - here's a reminder of your hypothesis- and don't forget that it's a verbatim quote- " I DO believe the bible to contains wisdom that seems to elude secularism." and, re my post asking "What wisdom is available in religion, but not science?" You said " None at all, I've never suggested otherwise." They will then make their own judgements. Ok, for the benefit of others I'll provide the context, of your cherry picking: " I DO believe the bible to contains wisdom that seems to elude secularism." Since my hypothesis is "The bibles are trying to teach contentment", Which I define as wisdom, please point to the curriculum of any secular society that teaches contentment; it's perfectly possible that secularism is (or will in the future) being taught which is why I used the word "seems". my post asking "What wisdom is available in religion, but not science?" You said " None at all, I've never suggested otherwise." In the context of the above, my reply is perfectly reasonable and doesn't contradict my hypothesis. There's a difference between the idea that "contentment is innate" and "contentment needs to be learned". The question of innateness is irrelevant, the simple fact is, there are millions of people who are discontented. If one is lucky enough to be naturally content then of course no lesson is required; much like Einstein was never taught GR, it's possible others will come to the same conclusions, but most of us need to be taught GR. Where do you learn it from? Well personally I learnt it from a lifetime of depression and substance abuse and my dog; in that spontaneous understanding I recognised the same process in some parts of the bible. Clearly Dimreeper's suggestion that you learn it from the Bible(s) is absurd. I understand why you're so reticent in accepting my argument, after all 'religions bad M'kay', but as a scientist surely you can't dismiss the possibility exists? I won't be holding my breath though. It's indeed absurd to claim you need religion to be content. Really??? What of those lucky few that are content because of their religion? Edited June 17, 2017 by dimreepr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tar Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) "Really??? What of those lucky few that are content because of their religion?" dimreepr, This made me wonder whether to a certain extent one is alone when self absorbed, in science, and facts or mathematical models, or consumed with an addiction, and no longer alone when religion, whether deistic, or Spinozian or humanist in nature is added...when someone takes strength from the outside, from an unseen other. That is, one is lame without religion. , Regards, TAR Edited June 17, 2017 by tar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 It's indeed absurd to claim you need religion to be content. What if you lost the path to contentment? A particular religion or philosophy may help you regain it. In that sense, one may need them in order to achieve it. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 "Really??? What of those lucky few that are content because of their religion?" dimreepr, This made me wonder whether to a certain extent one is alone when self absorbed, in science, and facts or mathematical models, or consumed with an addiction, and no longer alone when religion, whether deistic, or Spinozian or humanist in nature is added...when someone takes strength from the outside, from an unseen other. That is, one is lame without religion. , Regards, TAR The answer to this is in, the first part of, my signature. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Cuthber Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 ..."The bibles are trying to teach contentment", Which I define as wisdom... If you have to start redefining words to make your point, you should probably accept that you have no valid point to make. However, if you can show what wisdom or contentment is contained in the Bible(s) but which isn't to be found in the secular world, that would be interesting. What if you lost the path to contentment? A particular religion or philosophy may help you regain it. In that sense, one may need them in order to achieve it. That would be relevant if the original claim has been that "some small number of people need religion to be content"; it wasn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 If you have to start redefining words I haven't Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 That would be relevant if the original claim has been that "some small number of people need religion to be content"; it wasn't. I was responding to the post I quoted Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 That would be relevant if the original claim has been that "some small number of people need religion to be content"; it wasn't. Really??? surely, if even one person found their way (was taught) to contentment through religion, your entire argument is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 What if you lost the path to contentment? A particular religion or philosophy may help you regain it. In that sense, one may need them in order to achieve it.True, the bible can help. But there are many other books that can help, books that don't imply superstition, paradoxical 'nonsense' and cruelty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StringJunky Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 True, the bible can help. But there are many other books that can help, books that don't imply superstition, paradoxical 'nonsense' and cruelty. I'm thinking in the sense of whatever version a person happens to come across at the time. They may be looking for something they don't know the form the answer is going to take. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 But there are many other books that can help Name one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) Name one."Its Not How Good You Are, Its How Good You Want To Be" by Paul Arden "Damn Good Advice (For People With Talent)" by George Lois "Blockbusters; Why Big Hits" And Big Risks Are The Future Of The Entertainment Business by Anita Elberse "The Doodle Revolution" by Sunni Brown "How To Win Friends And Influence People" by Dale Carnegie There are many more... edit: Here you can also find what you are looking for http://www.sparringmind.com/psychology-books/ Edited June 17, 2017 by Itoero Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 "Its Not How Good You Are, Its How Good You Want To Be" by Paul Arden "Damn Good Advice (For People With Talent)" by George Lois "Blockbusters; Why Big Hits" And Big Risks Are The Future Of The Entertainment Business by Anita Elberse "The Doodle Revolution" by Sunni Brown "How To Win Friends And Influence People" by Dale Carnegie There are many more... Really, any relevant ones? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 Really, any relevant ones?I would think so yes. 5.) Switch: How to Change Things When Change is Hard 6.) The Art of Choosing 32.) Brain Rules: 12 Principles for Surviving and Thrivin http://www.sparringmind.com/psychology-books/ There are probably many more, I didn't read everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 I would think so yes. When you find one, please let me know. -1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 When you find one, please let me know.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dimreepr Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 ? I'll let you ponder that question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Itoero Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 I'll let you ponder that question.Why aren't those relevant? Is everything that's not called 'Bible' not relevent? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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