# If gravity is a separate force then how can it exist without the other 3?

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This question I believe is like asking where were you before you were born and where will you be after your dead. So infinity is found in all dimensions combined and time is linear; with that in mind, if gravity has a separate function then the other 3 forces, how can it function alone without them?

This leads me to a supposition that there is an interplay between the four forces which share common properties of symmetry defined from variations of momentum. And the interplay of the four forces which move across time share dynamically in angular field forces across any distance.

Illustration of planar motion. The angular momentum vector L is constant; therefore, the position vector r and velocity vector v must lie in the yellow plane perpendicular to L

Gravity waves are the slowest

Weak Nuclear

Electromagnetism

Strong Nuclear

Here is a picture of a hydrogen atom and I see a commonality from atom to galaxies.

You can see that the outcome from what happened in the big bang created these disk like galaxies which share dynamic fields of angular momentum.

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if gravity has a separate function then the other 3 forces, how can it function alone without them?

What does that even mean? All of the interactions can function independently.

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if gravity has a separate function then the other 3 forces, how can it function alone without them?

This doesn't make much sense. If anything, because it has a separate function therefore it can function alone without them.

Gravity waves are the slowest

They travel at the speed of light, which is the fastest.

Here is a picture of a hydrogen atom and I see a commonality from atom to galaxies.

There isn't really any commonality.

Most galaxies are flat spirals. A hydrogen atom is (in its lowest energy state) spherical. It is never a flat spiral.

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What does that even mean? All of the interactions can function independently.

You Sir lack sense. If a heart is separate and has a separate function it cannot act without the body! Same concept!

This doesn't make much sense. If anything, because it has a separate function therefore it can function alone without them.

They travel at the speed of light, which is the fastest.

There isn't really any commonality.

Most galaxies are flat spirals. A hydrogen atom is (in its lowest energy state) spherical. It is never a flat spiral.

ok I made a mistake there thanks strange!

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You Sir lack sense. If a heart is separate and has a separate function it cannot act without the body! Same concept!

But the heart is not separate and doesn't have a separate function.

A better analogy would be: if rain has a separate function from the body, how can it fall without the body? Well, of course it can because it is separate.

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But the heart is not separate and doesn't have a separate function.

A better analogy would be: if rain has a separate function from the body, how can it fall without the body? Well, of course it can because it is separate.

Strange look at the universe as the body and the four forces as components of the body this should shed some common light on the problem at hand. Therefore the forces cannot act independently without each other. e=mc2, because everything is energy!

@ Strange,

hey travel at the speed of light, which is the fastest. Quote from Strange!

Wait a minute light is a by product of electromagnetic radiation and you are saying gravity travels as the same speed as light! Right there is a commonality of angular momentum!

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You Sir lack sense. If a heart is separate and has a separate function it cannot act without the body! Same concept!

Do you have a science argument to make?

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Wait a minute light is a by product of electromagnetic radiation and you are saying gravity travels as the same speed as light! Right there is a commonality of angular momentum!

They both travel at the speed of light because they have infinite range (or, equivalently, have massless quanta). This has nothing to do with angular momentum. You seem to be just throwing buzzwords together without knowing what they mean.

Therefore the forces cannot act independently without each other.

And yet, they do.

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Do you have a science argument to make?

Yes my supposition was stated in the original post and now I have to work through the hypothesis.

They both travel at the speed of light because they have infinite range (or, equivalently, have massless quanta). This has nothing to do with angular momentum. You seem to be just throwing buzzwords together without knowing what they mean.

And yet, they do.

Picture a mass less void an elliptical spherical object as large as the universe! You would remain stationary forever in the void because only gravity was their; however it could never function without the other four forces. If they were there then guaranteed over time you would interact with another body and would be moving. So therefore angular momentum is present in all the forces interacting together.

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Picture a mass less void an elliptical spherical object as large as the universe!

If it a massless void, then it is not an object. And if it is elliptical it is not spherical.

You would remain stationary forever in the void because only gravity was their;

If it is a massless void, there would be no gravity. (And "there")

however it could never function without the other four forces.

Why would a massless void need any forces?

If they were there then guaranteed over time you would interact with another body and would be moving.

Why is that guaranteed? Most objects in the universe are electrically neutral, so there will be no EM force. The weak and strong forces have limited range (pretty much within the nucleus) and so will have no effect.

So therefore angular momentum is present in all the forces interacting together.

And where does angular momentum come into this? What is rotating?

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So a prediction of this is that in deep space, where gravity is negligible, there can be no atoms, no protons, because the forces involved can't work in the absence of gravity. An electron can't be deflected by an electric or magnetic field?

Any predictions and evidence from you?

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1)If it a massless void, then it is not an object. And if it is elliptical it is not spherical.

2)If it is a massless void, there would be no gravity. (And "there")

3)Why would a massless void need any forces?

4)Why is that guaranteed? Most objects in the universe are electrically neutral, so there will be no EM force. The weak and strong forces have limited range (pretty much within the nucleus) and so will have no effect.

5)And where does angular momentum come into this? What is rotating?

1.anything that may be apprehended intellectually:

objects of thought.
2. You just said in previous posts that gravity can function outside a domain where strong, weak and electromatic forces are not present. I just proved you wrong!
3) For your mind to be opened and for you to understand!
4) The universe does not function to laws of Stranges own perception and not to my perception, for we are dealing with a supposition.
5) Everything is under motion and rotating in the universe from the minute fem-to muon to all the galaxies in the universe.

So a prediction of this is that in deep space, where gravity is negligible, there can be no atoms, no protons, because the forces involved can't work in the absence of gravity. An electron can't be deflected by an electric or magnetic field.

Any predictions and evidence from you?

@ swansont:

First off the prediction without gravity the universe would fold in on itself or never exist without the other forces. The electron would not exist! Gravity not only pulls, but pushes.

e=mc2 is my evidence! because gravity as (strange said) travels at the speed of light!

Gravity probe b was in error!

And then we find at spectrum.ieee.org: “However, a more subtle effect, involving the tug of Earth’s rotation on space itself, has not yet been seen unequivocally. Because of an error in the gyroscopes manufacture, GP-Bs measurements have been riddled with wobbles that have made the ongoing data analysis for this frame dragging effect tremendously challenging. GP-Bs final results were expected this year, but the GP-B team, based at Stanford University, appealed to NASA to continue funding through March 2010 to extract the precision measurements that team managers say still lie buried beneath a layer of noise…

…Central to GP-Bs operations is a redundant set of four superconducting gyroscopes that each must point in precisely the same unwavering direction in space throughout the satellites orbit. For the experiment to work, these gyroscopes must drift no more than 0.00000000001 (a one hundred-billionth) degree per hour. Even advanced navigational gyroscopes in airplanes or guided missiles lack this precision by a factor of at least 1 million.” http://spectrum.ieee.org/aerospace/space-flight/the-gravity-probe-b-bailout

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1.anything that may be apprehended intellectually:

objects of thought.
2. You just said in previous posts that gravity can function outside a domain where strong, weak and electromatic forces are not present. I just proved you wrong!
3) For your mind to be opened and for you to understand!
4) The universe does not function to laws of Stranges own perception and not to my perception, for we are dealing with a supposition.
5) Everything is under motion and rotating in the universe from the minute fem-to muon to all the galaxies in the universe.

None of that makes any sense at all.

Gravity probe b was in error!

f course it was "in error". There are errors in all measurements. They just happened to be larger than hoped in that experiment. It doesn't mean the results were wrong.

And what does this have to do with your idea, anyway?

Gravity not only pulls, but pushes.

Do you have any evidence of gravity pushing?

e=mc2 is my evidence! because gravity as (strange said) travels at the speed of light!

What is the connection between the (incomplete) equation e=mc2 and gravity travelling at the speed light? And how does this support your idea?

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@ swansont:

First off the prediction without gravity the universe would fold in on itself or never exist without the other forces. The electron would not exist! Gravity not only pulls, but pushes.

I didn't say a universe without gravity existing, so that's a straw man. Any experimental evidence to support these conjectures?

e=mc2 is my evidence! because gravity as (strange said) travels at the speed of light!

You need to be more explicit in step 2.

https://image.slidesharecdn.com/strategicplanning-environmentalscanning-110721052458-phpapp02/95/strategic-planning-environmentalscanning-2-728.jpg?cb=1311225961

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I'm waiting for the OP to answer this very neat summary of why he's wrong.

...if rain has a separate function from the body, how can it fall without the body? Well, of course it can because it is separate.

Over to you, Tom,

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e=mc2 is my evidence! because gravity as (strange said) travels at the speed of light!

E=mc^2 is a way to convert from one classic physics unit (kg) to other classic physics unit (J).

Look where E=mc^2 is used in calculations: pair production, annihilation, decay of radioactive isotope, decay of unstable particle, fusion, etc. etc.

m in E=mc^2 equation is rest-mass of particle.

f.e.

If you have f.e. annihilation of matter-antimatter

$e^- + e^+ \rightarrow \gamma + \gamma + 1.022 MeV$

On the left side of equation you have two particles, each with rest-mass me , therefor each with energy E=mec^2

after annihilation, on the right side, there are two particles without rest-mass,

but with energies E=h*fc

fc is Compton frequency = 1.23559*10^20 Hz

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compton_wavelength

And full equation is:

2*mec^2 = 2 h*fc

Energy prior annihilation is equal to energy after annihilation.

Edited by Sensei
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I'm waiting for the OP to answer this very neat summary of why he's wrong.

Over to you, Tom,

This analogy does not apply to my opening statement in the first Title of my post. The body is held to the ground by gravity and rain must fall due to gravity.

I'm merely stating that all the forces share angular momentum within each of their fields across time. These angles of momentum are intertwined within the fields of all the forces and each force retains a range that takes the least amount of resistance to interact with one another. For instance, an electron operates within a sphere around the atom and changes direction at the valence shell, causing the field output to increase or decrease, but in order for that to happen the path of the angles electrons take are from varying angles. Gravity acts on the electron from a universal angle meaning at every angle simultaneously. Energy is only conserved through entropy when no interactions take place, which is an infinitely small amount of time shared with all the forces. Everything you see is constructed from a quantum aspect but cannot exist without the interplay of a simultaneous angle acted upon from gravity. Therefore, the four forces are not separate functioning aspects, but united through angular momentum.

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I'm merely stating that all the forces share angular momentum within each of their fields across time. These angles of momentum are intertwined within the fields of all the forces and each force retains a range that takes the least amount of resistance to interact with one another. For instance, an electron operates within a sphere around the atom and changes direction at the valence shell, causing the field output to increase or decrease, but in order for that to happen the path of the angles electrons take are from varying angles. Gravity acts on the electron from a universal angle meaning at every angle simultaneously. Energy is only conserved through entropy when no interactions take place, which is an infinitely small amount of time shared with all the forces. Everything you see is constructed from a quantum aspect but cannot exist without the interplay of a simultaneous angle acted upon from gravity. Therefore, the four forces are not separate functioning aspects, but united through angular momentum.

I don't think there is one sentence there that makes any sense at all. This is a science forum. Not a place to test random phrase generators.

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I don't think there is one sentence there that makes any sense at all. This is a science forum. Not a place to test random phrase generators.

Quantum Rule of Angular Momentum

www.aimspress.com/article/10.3934/Math.2016.2.137
by T Ma - ‎2016 - ‎Related articles

Jul 22, 2016 - In this article, we establish a quantum rule of angular momentum that ... T. Ma and S. Wang, Unified field equations coupling four forces and ...

http://www.aimspress.com/article/10.3934/Math.2016.2.137/pdf

To educate @Strange so that he can comprehend my ideas!

I believe we shall find in every field aspects of angular momentum and with that knowledge the approach for a GUT can now be narrowed down to find this unifying equation!

Edited by Tom O'Neil
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This analogy does not apply to my opening statement in the first Title of my post. The body is held to the ground by gravity and rain must fall due to gravity.

I'm merely stating that all the forces share angular momentum within each of their fields across time. These angles of momentum are intertwined within the fields of all the forces and each force retains a range that takes the least amount of resistance to interact with one another. For instance, an electron operates within a sphere around the atom and changes direction at the valence shell, causing the field output to increase or decrease, but in order for that to happen the path of the angles electrons take are from varying angles. Gravity acts on the electron from a universal angle meaning at every angle simultaneously. Energy is only conserved through entropy when no interactions take place, which is an infinitely small amount of time shared with all the forces. Everything you see is constructed from a quantum aspect but cannot exist without the interplay of a simultaneous angle acted upon from gravity. Therefore, the four forces are not separate functioning aspects, but united through angular momentum.

"This analogy does not apply to my opening statement in the first Title of my post. "

Yes it does: you just don't understand it.

"I'm merely stating that all the forces share angular momentum within each of their fields across time. "

You are indeed, merely stating it.

You are not supporting it with evidence - and, since it doesn't make sense, we can dismiss it.

And the evidence suggests that Strange understands the concept of angular momentum better than you do.

indeed, at the risk of damning Strange by too faint praise, the evidence suggests that next door's cat understands angular momentum better than you do; because you plainly don't and Felix might.

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"This analogy does not apply to my opening statement in the first Title of my post. "

Yes it does: you just don't understand it.

"I'm merely stating that all the forces share angular momentum within each of their fields across time. "

You are indeed, merely stating it.

You are not supporting it with evidence - and, since it doesn't make sense, we can dismiss it.

And the evidence suggests that Strange understands the concept of angular momentum better than you do.

indeed, at the risk of damning Strange by too faint praise, the evidence suggests that next door's cat understands angular momentum better than you do; because you plainly don't and Felix might.

The support is obvious in my post #19. You are in fight or flight mode and are off topic!

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Just for the record, voting a post down doesn't address the issues raised in it, nor does it alter any factual points made.

The stuff you cited in post 19 does not support your contention.

Edited by John Cuthber
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Again the facts are found with evidence in post #19. Please in a few paragraphs state why these facts have no bearing upon my opening post. Study the evidence in both papers and all the videos before you quickly come to a conclusion that I'm wrong. If I see a sound argument from you then I can form a better response. Thank you Expert!

Unified Equation based on Angular Momentum:

Edited by Tom O'Neil
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Again the facts are found with evidence in post #19. Please in a few paragraphs state why these facts have no bearing upon my opening post.

Because they appear to be just a random collection of links you found by googling "angular momentum". Nowhere do they say that "all the forces share angular momentum within each of their fields across time" or any of the other hogwash you vomited into post 17.

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Because they appear to be just a random collection of links you found by googling "angular momentum". Nowhere do they say that "all the forces share angular momentum within each of their fields across time" or any of the other hogwash you vomited into post 17.

@strange your limited knowledge on these concepts will never see how angular momentum is intertwined within the four forces. I understand this is all new to you so the fear centers of your brain seem to always act in a negative matter! With superior ideas that threaten you, that is why you never post your own topics with new knowledge on physics, because perhaps you lack creativity in these areas. Carefully study all this and then read the paper.

1) the general relativity and the gauge symmetries dictate the Lagrangian;

2) the coupling of the four interactions is achieved through PID and PRI in the field equations, which obey the Einstein principle of general relativity and PRI, but break spontaneously the gauge symmetry;

3) the unified field model can be easily decoupled to study an individual interaction, when the other interactions are negligible; and 4) the unified field model coupling the matter fields using PSB

http://www.aimspress.com/article/10.3934/Math.2016.2.137/pdf

https://www.blinn.edu/brazos/natscience/phys/thonan/notes2425/I.pdf

http://www.mrelativity.net/Papers/37/Nuclear%20Magneton%20Theory%20of%20Mass%20Quantization-Unified%20Field%20Theory_EJSR_VOLUME_100_ISSUE_1.pdf

Abstract

Postulating the existence of magnetic monopole in electromagnetism and Heavisidian monopoles in gravitational interactions, a unified theory of gravi-electromagnetism has been developed on generalizing the Schwinger-Zwanziger formulation of dyon to quaternion in simple and consistent manner. Starting with the four Lorentz like forces on different charges, we have generalized the Schwinger-Zwanziger quantization parameters in order to obtain the angular momentum for unified fields of dyons and gravito-dyons (i.e. Gravi-electromagnetism). Taking the unified charge as quaternion, we have reformulated manifestly covariant and consistent theory for the dynamics of four charges namely electric, magnetic, gravitational and Heavisidian associated with gravi electromagnetism.

https://arxiv.org/pdf/1012.0279.pdf

Theories of supergravity have developed out of attempts to construct a unified field theory that would describe all of the four basic forces. One of the essential features of a quantum field theory is its prediction of “force-carrier” particles that are exchanged between interacting particles of matter. It is in this context that the gravitational force has proved difficult to treat as a quantum field theory. General relativity, which relates the gravitational force to the curvature of space-time, provides a respectable theory of gravity on a larger scale. To be consistent with general relativity, gravity at the quantum level must be carried by a particle, called the graviton, with an intrinsic angular momentum (spin) of 2 units—in contrast to the other fundamental forces, whose carrier particles (e.g., the photon and the gluon) have a spin of 1.

https://www.britannica.com/science/supergravity

Edited by Tom O'Neil

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