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Posts posted by Moontanman

  1. 9 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

    But there are things we do know, for instance we (that is you and I) know it's not god or santa.

    In the 1952 Washington sighting radar inversions don't cut it either... In fact it's just more insults from arch debunker Philip Klass who would deny aliens while they were giving him an anal probe...

    There was a lot of confusion going on during those two weekends but radar inversions to not even come close to explaining all or even most of them... It could have just been a perfect storm of natural phenomena but insulting the people who worked the radar and ignoring civilians on the ground with no knowledge of what was going on or interactions with aircraft was just dishonest... 


    On 11/5/2019 at 7:18 AM, dimreepr said:

    Why hasn't SETI detected them?

    However well designed, a stealth craft wouldn't be perfect; we aren't club wielding primatives, however well advanced they are, they would still have to comunicate.

    To answer that i would have to know why you think SETI should have detected them... 

  2. 16 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

    There's just no reason to assume there is no rational explanation, even if we don't happen to have one ATM.

    No one is asking anyone to assume there is no rational explanation... Just stop shoehorning in stuff that doesn't fit, be brave enough to simply say "I don't know"  a reasonable skeptical 12 year old could pick apart the 1952 Washington, DC sightings so called explanation. The desire to appear to know what was going on was so strong they went out on a limb and sawed down the tree!   

    16 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

    He's just assuming rather a lot.

    I was say extrapolating...  

    16 minutes ago, Roamer said:

    @koti nice vid, but he's missing something;

    the reason to think alien civilizations exist somewhere is that the universe is so vast(you throw the dice often enough, you're bound to get a six eventually); if any alien civ is a million year ahead of us, but they 're more then a million lightyears away from us, we couldn't ve detected them yet.

    To be fair this video was about us in the not too horribly distant future... 

  3. 8 hours ago, MigL said:

    Those lights and radar returns are 'angels' and they are performing 'miracles' in the sky.
    Surely we should have an investigation of these Religious phenomena.

    Seriously Moon, when it comes to UFO and aliens, your mantra seems to be
    'Absence of evidence is NOT evidence of absence.'
    Why do you not apply that criterion to Dieties/Creators ?

    Why do you need the concept of 'aliens' so explain some unexplained events, but you are perfectly rational in the case of religion, and don't need the concept of 'God' to explain other unexplainable events ?
    Not trying to ridicule you or anything of the sort, but would like an explanation for the line of thinking in one case as opposed to the other.

    Just as soon the people in charge stop hand waving away evidence that would convince them of almost anything else. I don't know that any UFOs are aliens, I do know that ball lightings is assumed to be a thing and was for centuries (due to eyewitnesses only) yet until quite recently not even photos existed. And of course everyone knew rocks could not fall from the sky... There are, UAP''s lets call them, that simply defy rational explanation and only hand waving away at least some of the available data allows the status quo to continue. 

  4. 21 minutes ago, swansont said:

    This video, with the following description (emphasis added):

    "Far beyond even Pluto and the Kuiper Belt is a vast and mostly empty region of space that we theorize may contain trillions of comets and other icy bodies."

    The theroize was in how is was shaped not if it existed...  02:50 to 04:10

  5. 3 hours ago, swansont said:

    Let's not. Let's say you hand-waved your explanation without much in the way of science or analysis (which is consistent with the topic under discussion: lots of hand-waving, and not much in the way of actual scientific analysis)

    So they can travel in interstellar space without having developed "pointing" technology?

    I've acquired new technology since our last encounter that makes assimilation more difficult...    

    4 hours ago, swansont said:

    Let's not. Let's say you hand-waved your explanation without much in the way of science or analysis (which is consistent with the topic under discussion: lots of hand-waving, and not much in the way of actual scientific analysis)

    So they can travel in interstellar space without having developed "pointing" technology?

    Seriously a huge part of my argument comes from this Video or series of videos. If anyone want to watch them before any discussion of colonizing Oort clouds.


  6. 44 minutes ago, swansont said:

    Have you come up with better arguments? Because if memory serves your rationale was seriously lacking when this came up not long ago.

    Lets say we disagreed or talked past each other at the least... 

    1 hour ago, dimreepr said:

    Why hasn't SETI detected them?

    However well designed, a stealth craft wouldn't be perfect; we aren't club wielding primatives, however well advanced they are, they would still have to comunicate.

    Communicate in what way? with what? Masers or lasers would have to be pointed very close to right at us to be detected.. 

  7. 5 hours ago, dimreepr said:

    Well, we do have a drone on its way, but that's a far cry from us getting there with the capability of carrying a stealth jet, just in case we need to investigate a planet with a similar technology...

    Why would we investigate such a planet?

    When, if discovered, that civilisation would galvanise it's planetary resources to investigate us; with a view to eliminate a potential threat.


    My idea is that aliens are already here, slow boats from one stars oort cloud to another in rotating habitats where they live in lieu of planets. They avoid gravity wells and take thousands of years to travel slowly from one chunk of icy debris to another. sometimes, if they have the need and the icy chunk is big enough, they build another colony and continue on. Stumbling upon a planetary system with aboriginal life probably triggers some of them to investigate like we do when we find a new island with primitive humans.  

    4 minutes ago, StringJunky said:

    No, not having evidence that passes scientific scrutiny.

    How can you get scientific evidence of something that we can't get a piece of but we can get radar images, photographs, and video not to mention hundreds of multiple independent eyewitnesses. Even damaged equipment from cars to airplanes. Do you really expect such a civilization drop off a piece of the aircraft by accident?   I lived under the landing pattern of a medium size airport, air force one often did touch and goes there. Jets would come so low then landing I could see the pilots very clearly. A few times Harrier Jets floated by do slow and low I could hit have them with a rock! 

    Never, not once,

    did a piece of an airplane fall off!

    How do you investigate a phenomenon like that? 

    J Allen Hynek said the air force was hiding evidence that absolutely proved at last a few UFOs were extraterrestrial.  

  8. 5 hours ago, StringJunky said:

    Ultamately, the bar to get over is scientific review and if it can't get passed that it's a non-starter. Conspiracy theories of institutional cover up is a fairly typical defence of those who believe something  that is not generally accepted..

    Ultimately deciding ahead of time something is bunk is not science... 


  9. 23 minutes ago, dimreepr said:

    But given our current understanding of physics there is no credible argument for how aliens could visit us; so what is there to cover up? 

    Which would also explain a lack of properly funded scientific studies, beyond SETI. 

    Not true, in fact with technology like ours we could travel to other stars, you need to stop watching star wars... 

    In the too weird category! 


  10. 4 hours ago, StringJunky said:


    The question you want to ask is "How fast can a species evolve?" and are we, Homo sapien sapiens, the most evolved? To date it appears we are, then space travel is limited to what we can do now and ET's won't be very likely in our neighbourhood. You have to find a plausible mechanism before any phenomena can reasonably be expected to be investigated scientifically. It seems to me you have taken an arbitrarally chosen position that they have been in our vicinity.

    I can make a very credible argument as to how and why aliens might be nearby... near enough to be interested in us, but that is not what this is about...

  11. 1 hour ago, Strange said:

    And this attitude of claiming that a statement of the obvious fact that people have proper jobs to do (rather than spend time investigating things for which there is insufficient evidence to draw any conclusion) is "dismissal" or "ridiculing" is the problem with UFO nuts.

    I number of accredited scientists investigate UFO sightings at the risk of their academic standings, J. Allen Hynek was one of them.  

    1 hour ago, Strange said:

    It as been done lots of times. The answer is always "there are plausible mundane explanations (but sometimes not information to be sure of which)" or "there is insufficient information to reach any conclusion".

    Lots of times? Then it should be easy for you to name a few serious scientific studies... 

    1 hour ago, Strange said:

    What you mean is "an investigation that reaches the conclusions I want has never been done". Well, there is a reason for that. Science doesn't reach the conclusions you want; even if there isn't enough evidence to reach any other conclusion.

    Again no such study has ever been done, a study should not begin with the conclusion that UFOs are bs then try to support that conclusion. The Condon Report is a prime example.  

    1 hour ago, Strange said:

    And do you have any evidence for that? No, of course not. Except the fact that no one has found the evidence you want.

    Quite the contrary the cover up is obvious, Many scientists have supported this, J Allen Hynek stopped working for the US Air Force when he began to realise that no investigation was going onely an effort to explain away any sighting in anyway possible often by ridicule and nonsense.    

    1 hour ago, Strange said:

    There is no cover up because there is nothing to cover up.

    So say you, a great many others, scientists included would disagree. Now I would be the first to say the cover up might not involve little green men but the is nonetheless a coverup. 

    1 hour ago, Strange said:

    And who is going to pay for it?

    The Military just admitted to a 22 million dollar study that didn't exist until it was exposed... 

    1 hour ago, Strange said:


    There is absolutely no reason to think either of those things, based on the evidence available.

    The was absolutely no evidence rocks fell fro the sky until someone investigated, there was no evidence that a needle floating in water had any reason to investigate either. 

  12. 18 hours ago, Roamer said:

    The job of the US Airforce is to protect US airspace from hostile action, not to investigate EVERYTHING in the air, and especially not to address civilian complaints about aliens using complicated machinery to have butt-sex with them. Having a small debunking-team so the rest of the USAF can focus on their (core-)job falls perfectly in line with this.

    This attitude is exactly what the problem consists of, the immediate dismissal and ridicule of anyone who has a sighting. well done... well done...  

    18 hours ago, Roamer said:

    So i have to ask: what's your point ?

    My point is that a scientific, neutral, investigation has never been done. The first ever military investigation was pretty good, they came to an odd conclusion, interplanetary space craft, but that was more than a bit flawed but at least it was honest.  

    18 hours ago, Roamer said:

    Are you claiming a cover-up ? Would be quite likely in the case of actual aliens, but it would mean there would be more aliens ready to be discovered, search for them instead of hoping to gain access to area 51.

    Yes, I am claiming a cover up!

    18 hours ago, Roamer said:

    Do you want an organisation investigating aliens ? Maybe better not having it be a government-agency because they re not going to be too competent in it. (At least not untill actual aliens  have been found)

    Yes I think an organization, a fair and scientific investigation that goes on and doesn't stop because one sighting can be explained.  An accredited university of excellent reputation should have a department dedicated to this.


    UFOs might be technology from some place else but the answer just might be more interesting than that and involve natural phenomena we are totally unaware of or even involve aspects of the human mind we currently have no clue about. 

    Ta say UFOs are nothing but some redneck hillbilly with an anal fetish is insulting  on a level with racism. I'm a hillbilly are you a clueless flatlander? Want to exchange insults all day or read the OP and either react or go on because you have personally insulted me... 

  13. Seriously, we had the entire leadership, practically the entire army of ISIS in one area, a single mirv could have taken them out completely! No one thinks that might have been a good idea? Hell I was surprised Saudi Arabia didn't catch a few MIRVs after 911 until I realized the agenda of the Gov had nothing to do with with who did it... 

    528 nuclear weapons have been detonated above ground, mostly in desert areas to minimise the fallout, why not a couple more? 

    Scared of Russia? Really? Do you really think Russia would have retaliated for a few desert terrorists? Bush promised shock and awe and only delivered a second rate fireworks show... 

    Don't make promises you can't keep... 


  14. My mention of a nuclear strike was in jest, sort of, well before ISIS was anything but a pissing contest in a very small area I suggested on another forum that a real shock and awe attack would cure the problem. At this time ISIS wasn't much more than a side note. Having paid attention to how these things work I was sure ISIS was going to be a much bigger problem unless some was done now and that something has to be extreme. On "another forum" I suggested this scenario. A nuclear attack sub was submerged in striking range of the ISIS stronghold. Most if not all leaders of ISIS were there. a simple launch of a 500 kiloton war heard would be enough to wipe out ISIS and shock and awe anyone else who was thinking of bad things. The desert was a perfect place to target, little fallout would occur, and the effect would save hundreds of thousands of live if not millions of live.   

    I was nearly kicked out of the forum such a suggestion even though It was only a discussion of a possibility. Much to my dismay ISIS was allowed to spread and stopping then resulted in the deaths of hundreds of thousands of civilians and military not to mention the rape and enslavement of women and pillage of the area in ways that will never be recovered from. 

    War is never an idea that should be taken lightly and always results in unexpected casualties but sometimes a decisive strike can prevent a war that kills millions, an armed intervention would have taken months and resulted in the lives of thousands being lost. A nuclear strike in the desert would have resulted in a crater or a few square kilometers of glass and a few hundred humans who were a waste of skin being killed not to mention real shock and awe of the rest of the people who were thinking of taking over...


  15. 7 hours ago, michel123456 said:

    Today I learned about the String Shooter effect. (in fact I learned nothing, I enjoyed the video)


    That was neat! kinda reminded me of when I worked for dupont, we wore ear plugs and had to get a new set every day or so.They had a narrow ball chain that had hooks on one end so you could make a small loop to connect the ear plugs to your belt. Over time we would collect several pounds of chain by connecting all of them end to end. Then we would take 20 or 30 fee of chain and suspend them from the mezzanine and whirl them around to make all sorts of odd shapes in the air. sometimes they looked like they were violating some sort of law of physics as they whirled in the air looking like a 3d wave suspended in the air. I know, bored men on midnight shift... 

  16. Introducing invasive species is what humans do! We intentionally and unintentionally bring a gaggle of invasive species with us wherever we go. It's completely natural for us to do so. I can't see any problem with eliminating an invasive species as long as we are using the term correctly. Invasive suggests the species is a problem, some introduced species do not become a problem, but some become intense problems, feral pigs is an example, and carp. Carp have been around so long that many people do not know they are an invasive species nor is the damage they do as obvious as the damage feral pigs manage to inflict in the environment...  

    State and federal wildlife management tend to go with the invasive equals not providing a money producing resource. Florida is a great example, fish accidentally introduced by the aquarium fish hobby are invasive but fish introduced by fish and game for the pleasure of anglers are said to be well established. 

    Personally I am a proponent of introducing non native fish that are in trouble in their natural range into streams here that are recovering from devastation and have open niches in their habitat that a non native fish that is going extinct could fill here. 

    The dwarf sturgeon is one that I have championed actively to be released in the Poca River in WV. Before they became completely extinct 


    The chinese paddlefish was one I thought should be introduced into the Mississippi River:


    The chinese river dolphin:


    And the chinese alligator:


    The list of endangered species is long and sad and their introduction into friendlier habitats is controversial swinging from those who want to rewild north america with african animals to those who think that no species should be introduced under any circumstances... 

  17. 33 minutes ago, CharonY said:

    Well, I tried the summon feature and next thing I know is that it is headed towards the sun.

    Yes but did you twirl the freshly beheaded chickens in the correct spin 2 direction under the full moon while reciting Einstein's special theory of relativity in base 3 hopping on one leg while your dog howls? I did it almost correct but I dropped a decimal point and my tesla showed up on my carport when I was 12. Some mysterious driverless truck showed up and towed it away... Amazing how that memory just popped up in my mind so suddenly... 

  18. 53 minutes ago, koti said:

    Thats the second time today something isn’t funny to me at all.

    J. Allen Hynek was the US Air Force's chief debunker he was semi famous for saying a particular UFO sighting was swamp gas back in the 60's  Hynek eventually became one of the chief supporters of the ET theory of at least some UFOs after he realised how the Air Force was using him and his credentials to debunk instead of investigate UFOs.  


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