Moontanman
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Posts posted by Moontanman
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10 hours ago, exchemist said:
How horrible.
My specialty!
3 hours ago, Phi for All said:If your doctor is after you about the fats and sweets, the bergamot in Earl Grey tea pairs really, really well with lemon, and not just because the British say so. In this case, they are spot on.
Not fats, just sweets, for some reason unsweetened tea is awful to me but sweet coffee is awful as well! I like iced coffee and iced tea but only coffee unsweetened! My own personal diet for type 2 diabetes includes fats, protein, and fiber but excludes as much carbs as possible. No seed oils, the only vegetable oils I use are olive and coconut oils. I mostly cook with lard and or beef tallow and all my blood parameters have gone back to nominal! My doc is amazed and I feel much better after losing 50 lbs!
3 hours ago, TheVat said:I think he's channeling Jean-Luc Picard.
YES! I actually tried Earl Grey Tea due to Captain Picard! I loved the taste, I even preferred it in iced tea!
2 hours ago, zapatos said:I considered posting this anonymously lest I bring down the wrath of the British Empire, but I guess I'll proudly show my American roots; I like my tea iced, with a bit of lemon juice. I only drink hot tea when I am cold or under the weather.
Iced sweet tea is the house wine of the south! I do miss it, along with bread, pasta, potatoes, and rice...😭
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I've tried this with coffee but never tea... I prefer my Earl Grey hot with a pinch of butter and a teaspoon of honey!
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What does a giant sandwich have to do with the bigbang?
Actually the sandwich was the first return from google and the pions that mesotron originally referred to are down the list quite a bit but even then I can't find any references to anything having to do with the bigbang.
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Sounds like they just need to buy a 22 short revolver, double tap to the back of the head Mafia style is quick, easy, cheap, and as painless as dying could be.
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5 hours ago, StringJunky said:
Any thoughts on the potential outcomes this? From what understand, if done correctly with no significant rebreathing of carbon dioxide, they should be unconconcious in a few breathes. If it carries out without incident, the 'cruel and unusual' label won't stand anymore.
I'm not sure I understand the why of this, is the quickness of death, lack of pain, or the cost most important?
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46 minutes ago, TheVat said:
Well, the Oxford U P link, on the triple transients, is worth reading the abstract and then the summary section at the end, where the range of possible distances of the objects is calculated. Between 2 LY and somewhere in the solar system (but not in Earth orbit). It's a mystery on several levels, including if they are actually three objects (no more than 6 AU from each other, if the dimmings are causally connected) or a single one with some unusual gravitational lensing effect. Not thunder, but still an anomaly worth following up on.
I misquoted you, sorry about that, the objects were not in Earth orbit but as you say still interesting.
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On 1/14/2024 at 12:47 PM, TheVat said:
Stockholm U. astronomer Villarroel and her team have been studying transient light sources on old photographic plates.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92162-7
9 transients that appeared in April 1950.
https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/527/3/6312/7457759
Three transients that coincided with famous July 1952 Washington DC sightings of UAP.
Article that includes section (scroll to last third of article) on Villarroel's team.
Other astronomers, using different techniques, have seen things that warrant further investigation. Beatriz Villarroel, assistant professor of physics at Stockholm University, is leading a team of astronomers looking at photographic plates of the night sky that date from before the first artificial satellite was launched in 1957.
As satellites orbit the Earth, they can reflect sunlight causing bright glints to appear in the night sky. These leave streaks on astronomical images or spots of light that appear and disappear seemingly at random. Mysteriously, on one plate from April 1950, Villarroel found nine sources of light that appeared within a half-hour period and then vanished. Conducting observations using the Gran Telescopio Canarias, on La Palma in the Canary Islands, revealed nothing at the locations of the light sources that might have flared up.
“There is no astronomical explanation for this type of event,” says Villarroel.
More recently, her team found three bright “stars” on a plate dated 19 July 1952 that have since vanished. Provocatively, this is a date burned into the diaries of UFO enthusiasts around the world because it coincides with a famous incident in which pilots and radar operators saw lights they could not explain in the skies above Washington DC.
“I think it’s very important to do this kind of [nearby] searching for extraterrestrial objects because the [astronomical] community mostly looks for things very, very far away. I think it’s time to do something new,” says Villarroel, who is now working to establish the ExoProbe project to look for anomalous objects among the vast number of human satellites currently in orbit.
(this will get interesting if contamination of these old photographic plates can be ruled out. The Guardian article also discusses the psychological effects on the public, if a conspiracy of concealment of ET evidence were to be revealed, though that might be another thread topic)
I feel like I have stolen the thunder from your post. I think this particular route of inquiry has real world importance. The July 1952 Washington DC "Merry Go Round" was IMHO one of the most important sightings ever reported not to mention one of the most widely misrepresented sightings ever.
The US Air Force totally screwed the pooch on their ridiculous explanation of "false radar returns due to temperature inversion". The desperation of the Air Force to explain away at any cost the "UFO Phenomena" is on open display here and the idea of unknown objects being photographed in orbit around he Earth at the very time this "sighting" occurred is potentially earth shattering!
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40 minutes ago, pzkpfw said:
Mostly I really hate time travel in any show. I generally can excuse one or two bits of magic in something (e.g. faster than light travel is pretty much required to make most Science Fiction work), but the implications of time travel are just too much for me.
Having said that, I recently watched Eureka. Pretty much all of the science in that show was just silly. But that then made it easier to accept the time travel episodes. It was all really just fantasy.
And the interesting bit of the time travel was that they kept the "timeline changes" in the show. That is, around half way through the run they altered their present by something they changed in the past ... never reverted it. So some characters went on in the show knowing about the "other timeline" and others only knew one. It was like the show was rebooted, with some characters knowing about the reboot.
I watched some of Eureka when it first came out but I lost interest as it progressed. I honestly don't remember a time travel component in the show but I didn't watch very many episodes. I might give it another go!
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A list of my fav time travel shows and the premise of the shows time traveling.
Outlander - Straight up magic, no technology, and the protagonists alternate between trying to change history and trying to lie low.
Timeless- Straight up technology with the intent to change or repair the past time line.
Travelers- Technology with the intent of changing the past through major acts of intervention
Terra Nova- Technology with the intent of escaping the present by moving to the extreme past.
Primeval- Natural occurrences used to time travel and trying to prevent changes to the past and present.
Feel free to list your own favs in the poll and I'd like to discuss the differences in the premises of he shows and how well they do in consistency even if the premise is fatally flawed.
I'll start out with my fav time travel show which is Travelers, the show is reasonably internally consistent, the main premise is that no material objects can be sent through time only information. Nothing can be sent through time without a T.E.L.L. Time Elevation Longitude and Latitude of the person it is sent to. The main reason I liked the show was... I hate to ruin the show for anyone but while the time travel is portrayed as almost omnipotent technology ultimately they fail to make a difference in the future. The idea they fail is what ultimately makes the show so powerful.
Anyone else want to step up and explain their fav time travel show feel free to do so!
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4 hours ago, swansont said:
If a point isn’t valid, you shouldn’t bring it up. But this is a science site. You should expect claims to be challenged.
I can’t comment on things I don’t know about; if data are classified how could I?
You don’t give any citations for claims, so they’re hard to follow up on.
Your stance on gathering data is a self-fulfilling prophecy.
4 hours ago, Bufofrog said:I disagree. The points that can be explained should be.
You guys are correct, I am wrong, I again concede the topic cannot be discussed scientifically with the data we currently have. I will go back to ignoring this topic due to lack of data.
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1 hour ago, swansont said:
It's the point you brought up that I was addressing. Now that you know it's false, I assume you won't claim it again.
If there were other points, by all means discuss them.
This is the absolute epitome of disrespect and often the main way disrespect is spread. Ignore any points that are valid and concentrate on trivial details that can be used to denigrate more important aspects of any argument.
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6 hours ago, swansont said:
Repeating fanciful stuff like this without any supporting documentation doesn’t exactly lend credibility to any claims you make. It’s likely one of those things that has a tiny grain of truth to it that kept getting modified with each retelling, like the ‘whisper’ game, until you end up with this claim. What’s telling is the credulous telling of it, just like the blind acceptance of other things. Skepticism is required here, and this doesn’t pass the sniff test.
What’s much more likely, to me, is that this method appeared in a document that was classified, and remained classified for some time because it contained other information that still needed to be classified, or there is some other reason for not declassifying (like some statute that says you can’t declassify the document for 100 years) that has nothing to do with this specific item.
If this were top secret, who broke federal law to point out that it’s classified?
edit:
The last time this came up I pointed out that the document was declassified in 2011. You should update your story.
Further, it's probably this one
https://www.cia.gov/readingroom/docs/CIA-RDP11X00001R000100010003-7.pdf
Item 38.
The document is confidential, not top secret. There are 50 items in it, and any one of the other 49 might be the reason the document was not declassified sooner. But saying that lemon-as-invisible-ink is classified is like saying "the" is classified because it appeared in a classified document.
Really? The lemon writing is all you got from this?
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1 hour ago, swansont said:
Plenty of non-scientists gather data that's useful (amateur astronomy, citizen science projects like bird counting.
I happen to be one of them although my contribution has always been field work supervised by a real scientist.
1 hour ago, swansont said:It's not controlled conditions - these aren't done in a lab - it's the rigor of gathering the data e.g. instead of a random snapshot, it's multiple pics from different vantage points, with calibrated distances and background shots for reference. The problem with existing pictures is that there is almost no data you can get from them.
Do not pretend that UFO researcher gets the same respect as an amature astronomer or a bird watcher. If I were to send in a a video or picture of an Ivory Billed Woodpecker at least some ornithologists would beat a path to my door to examine my film or pic but let me get a picture of a UFO and no matter how good the picture is or the data surrounding it, in fact I think to could be said the better the picture the more likely it will be labeled too good to be true and therefore a hoax. Scientists would avoid me like the plague and if I made too big a stink I'd be labeled a crank or crack pot.
Even a well respected scientist is likely to get the crackpot treatment... see Avi Lobe for an example.
Science or scientists have been told that alien life visiting us is not possible for so long and the military has reinforced this idea via ridicule and with holding funding that no one can seriously undertake any investigation due to quite a bit more than lack of data.
1 hour ago, swansont said:The military data you don't have access to wasn't collected under controlled conditions, either.
The data the military gathers is all we have and the culture of secrecy that runs the military makes and keeps things secrete just for the sake of secrecy. There are secrets being kept from WW1 that little kids know about but the US military keeps them "top" secret. The one most often talked about is the secret writing via lemon juice and a candle.
Data collected by the military on UFOs back in the 40s, 50s and 60s is still classified top secret! How could protecting military secrets be a justified reason to keep those things secret?
1 hour ago, swansont said:Again, "qualified by science" and who collects it isn't inherently the issue (unless you're a known charlatan)
Report a UFO and you immediately become a known charlatan.
Even if the military has a real problem with any adversary finding out how they obtained the data there should be no reason why scientists, under conditions of secrecy, couldn't be allowed access to the data. The results could be published without compromising the details of how the data was obtained.
If a well respected group of scientists came forward to say they have been shown the results of the data and those results do not suggest anything other than mundane sources for UAPs I'd accept it. I know many wouldn't but many on both sides of this issue would refuse to consider any data that disagreed with their forgone conclusion.All I know for sure is that far too many "sightings" are completely unexplained often despite an embarrassing wealth of data.
If UAPs represent actual extraterrestrial space or aircraft then we are at a considerable disadvantage, any and all data we receive is controlled first by the aliens then that is filtered through a military obsessed with secrecy, then that is filtered through the culture of disrespect fostered by the gov, military, science, and then by society in general.
This issue is going to be a thorn in the side of society until the culture of secrecy for the sake of secrecy is stopped. Secrecy can become malignant when it becomes too powerful, imagine how progress is can be retarded by unnecessary secrecy, so much of this crazy story has a life of its own and is becoming disruptive to our society. How long before the disruption harms our society?
3 hours ago, TheVat said:Hey we're just some guys talking online. I don't think you're in the tinfoil hat brigade, nor is anybody else among the regulars here. It's a speculation thread so there's no reputational stake in speculating.
I appreciate that but the general attitude in all of these UFO threads has been a lack of respect, general dismissal of the topic and any evidence out of hand. No picture is good enough to even be considered, unless of course it's a really good picture then it's obviously has to be a hoax. This is not an accusation of you personally!
3 hours ago, TheVat said:I couldn't personally assess the severity of hiding data (versus, say, just bureaucratic rules being followed by office drones who had no interest in expediting scientific sharing of info). I grew up a few miles from where Hynek's family was from, knew people in that community, have heard nothing but good things about his integrity and allegiance to principles of sound science and objectivity. I think he did a good job of pointing out procedural problems and misdirected resources with Project Blue Book.
I think Hynek's legacy was demeaned badly and unfairly mostly because he decided to point out the deceptions of the military.
3 hours ago, TheVat said:I sometimes wonder if politicians like UAP hearings as a means of distraction from the obvious failure of Congress to do its job.
In this case i highly suspect the issue is being used to obfuscate the current government issues we are currently having.
3 hours ago, TheVat said:KAOS - should someone enlist the help of Maxwell Smart?
I rather liked 99!
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3 hours ago, swansont said:
So go get your own data.
Impossible, I am not a scientist and any data I were to acquire would be useless because it wasn't gathered under controlled conditions.
3 hours ago, swansont said:There are a lot of national security possibilities for the military to not share their data; that just seems like a convenient scapegoat.
That shouldn't apply to congress in a secret meeting but more importantly why has the military suppressed the data they have from scientists even the ones they had working for them?
3 hours ago, swansont said:I thought there was a TV show about some hotspot for UFO sightings. Where’s all the data from those sightings? (the obvious candidate answer is that it’s fiction, strictly for the suckers. Actual data would wreck the illusion)
Again as has been discussed in other threads none of the data we have was obtained under controlled conditions so it cannot be trusted. I understand this and have accepted the fact that data collected by me would not be considered admissible as data. I thought we had already established that no data has been collected by anyone qualified by science.
Actual data has been collected, I have no control over that data being accepted in science. In fact as I have said, under current conditions the only way we can be sure that aliens are here is if they tell us they are here, everything else is hearsay.
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4 hours ago, TheVat said:
Stockholm U. astronomer Villarroel and her team have been studying transient light sources on old photographic plates.
https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-021-92162-7
9 transients that appeared in April 1950.
https://academic.oup.com/mnras/article/527/3/6312/7457759
Three transients that coincided with famous July 1952 Washington DC sightings of UAP.
Article that includes section (scroll to last third of article) on Villarroel's team.
Other astronomers, using different techniques, have seen things that warrant further investigation. Beatriz Villarroel, assistant professor of physics at Stockholm University, is leading a team of astronomers looking at photographic plates of the night sky that date from before the first artificial satellite was launched in 1957.
As satellites orbit the Earth, they can reflect sunlight causing bright glints to appear in the night sky. These leave streaks on astronomical images or spots of light that appear and disappear seemingly at random. Mysteriously, on one plate from April 1950, Villarroel found nine sources of light that appeared within a half-hour period and then vanished. Conducting observations using the Gran Telescopio Canarias, on La Palma in the Canary Islands, revealed nothing at the locations of the light sources that might have flared up.
“There is no astronomical explanation for this type of event,” says Villarroel.
More recently, her team found three bright “stars” on a plate dated 19 July 1952 that have since vanished. Provocatively, this is a date burned into the diaries of UFO enthusiasts around the world because it coincides with a famous incident in which pilots and radar operators saw lights they could not explain in the skies above Washington DC.
“I think it’s very important to do this kind of [nearby] searching for extraterrestrial objects because the [astronomical] community mostly looks for things very, very far away. I think it’s time to do something new,” says Villarroel, who is now working to establish the ExoProbe project to look for anomalous objects among the vast number of human satellites currently in orbit.
(this will get interesting if contamination of these old photographic plates can be ruled out. The Guardian article also discusses the psychological effects on the public, if a conspiracy of concealment of ET evidence were to be revealed, though that might be another thread topic)
I am aware of these incidents as well, I know I have ruined my reputation on this issue and I have come to the conclusion that current gov investigations are more along the lines of political obfuscation than any real effort to reveal hidden data.
I'll risk further humiliation and say incidents like this and others have been suppressed (or at least any real investigation has been suppressed) by the gov for reasons unknown. Lots of really weird explanations have been proposed to explain what if anything is really going on and IMHO "science" is being manipulated by the military to hide, at the very least, their own incompetence in figuring out what is going on.
No I cannot provide citations to prove my point but the overall pattern IMHO is one of deception by the government. Other governments have come forward and admitted that something extraordinary is going on even to the point of suggesting aliens as the explanation. Of course these smaller countries cannot be correct because they do not agree with the US Military.
I think it's telling that the military cannot figure out how to give the data they have collected to anyone else, they even have problems giving the information to congress... in secret! That simply doesn't make sense, our own governments to keep these things secret from the very people who, at least in theory, actually run the government.
The fact that the military actually cannot give a straight answer to their own government is telling but the need to ridicule and suppress any effort to by real scientists to try and study what little data is available is just as telling as the military making sure even the scientists they hired to debunk the data did not gain access to he entire story.I know that their main investigative scientist, J Allen Hynek quit working for them because he found they were hiding data from him and refusing to allow him to interview pilots hat had witnessed UFOs that had especially good data sets. Gun camera footage, radar traces, and eyewitness testimony that directly contradicted the military's stance that UFOs were nothing but mistakes by witnesses.
Now there are several weird sightings currently being looked at and I am not going to discuss them because I honestly think there is a major connection between our current political kaos and the so called UAP investigation by congress.
When real scientists are being brought in and shown the all data the military has I'll try to believe a real investigation is going on.On 2/22/2023 at 8:30 PM, swansont said:What’s stopping you, and other like-minded folks, from investigating? Is complaining about having to live up to scientific standards too time consuming?
lack of access to the data possibly?
On 2/22/2023 at 8:30 PM, swansont said:The problem, it seems, is you want others to investigate, and yes, you need to come up with something to motivate most scientists to spend time (and money) on someone else’s pet project. Most scientists have their own research to do.
No I want the military to stop supressing the data they have and provide it to real scientists, hell they cannot even give it to the congress critters who supposedly run the country.
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1 hour ago, AIkonoklazt said:
Answer is yes
Citation please.
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1 hour ago, dimreepr said:
I think so, pagan seems to be a catch-all term for old-fashioned, with the associated assumption that that equals 'not as clever as us'.
If I remember my history of paganism correctly the word pagan originally meant something along the lines of "backward", "uneducated" or "country bumpkin".
26 minutes ago, sethoflagos said:AFAIK they never controlled a Navy, so I guess so.
Navy? Can you elaborate?
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7 hours ago, swansont said:
Your scenario “If a time traveler went back in time and changed something, no matter his motivation, could we know?” requires that time travel be possible.
They are based on what physics has to say.
But there is no scientific basis for this, because it’s not based on science. You can propose whatever you want, but like most fiction, if you delve too deep Into detail you will find problems. How does a memory get erased? How do things broken in one timeline get repaired if they don’t get broken in the new one?
But you can propose a different answer and have the same justification that that would be how it goes.
An experiment, even a thought experiment, has to have a consistent outcome.
You've convinced me, a thought experiment has to be based in reality as we understand it or it's meaningless, I apologize to everyone for wasting their time.
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Alabama to use Nitrogen as execution method
in Politics
Posted
Exactly... while killing someone is repulsive to me, I think if you are going to do it you kill them as fast and as surely as possible. Nothing is faster or more sure than a double tap to the back of the head.
I still have to ask what is the point of this "soft" killing, if I was being killed I'd struggle to the end, bite, scratch, twist, turn, spit and be as obnoxious as possible as i faded away. Why on Earth are we trying to gently kill someone?
I agree and I would sow considerable doubt on the very idea of calmly/gently killing someone. I could see the value in doing it quickly, and if you want it to be a deterrent, publically even but gently... painlessly? Seems a bit oxymoronic doesn't it?