DrP

this article doesn't make the roll out sound smooth. . http://www.coatings.org.uk/article/bcf-blog-survey-shows-reach-has-huge-impact-on-smes-211.aspx re borax - I heard there are further bans coming.

Thanks for engaging in the discussion and sorry for my cynicism. I hope it works out fine and for the best in the end of course - it was just frustrating loosing our raw material and it seems to be more red tape than necessary in my book. re-TiO2, I guess we will see what happens - I hope you are right and that what I heard about it was overblown. I think something about it is going to change soon - I guess we sit back and wait to see what happens as not much has been said or published about it yet. If what I heard (or read into what I heard) was true then it sounded like they were going for an all our ban like they are going to do with Borax.

QUOTE: "Sheldrake had a very difficult time proving his ideas" I wonder why.

CharonY - So if TiO2 dust is to be listed as class 2B carcinogen, fine... it needs addressing and using accordingly - not banning completely. In a paint formulation it will be perfectly safe bound up in the formulation. The COSHH will have to cover the workers procedures, but the final tin of paint should not need labels. Should we include drowning warnings on tins of paint that contain water? Should we ban it? (am I creating a strawman here? lol..) We had the same issue with Cd based dyes at a company I worked at in the 90's (admittedly nothing to do with REACH). 'Cd!! must be band as it is toxic - cannot use Cd based dyes on ceramic plates as it's poisonous'.... well... it would be if it was Cd metal... but it is in a massive complex bound up in the pigment and perfectly safe as a red dye.... "Still - it's Cd, we are banning it". - Dumb. Also - regarding COSHH being exposure specific... that is true, and also the most relevant risk. The MSDS (which hasn't changed much since becoming the SDS) covers (or should) all aspects of hazards. I have no problem with making it stricter and more comprehensive.... I just fail to see the need to have to pay £30k to register the substance on a database. John - good arguments, but I am not convinced the drive behind this is not money for the people setting it up. To play advocate - Multiple testings of a product is a good thing - any artifacts, errors or cover ups can be exposed if the material is tested by different groups. Also - whatever you say about it - we have still lost a very important raw material for our company which is not going to be registered.... oh, and we are not allowed to register it and make it our selves. (I suppose there would be no stopping us from developing the process ourselves and registering - but this is not feasible). This aside - I am definitely voting to stay in the EU today after work. Mainly due to the employers laws that protect the employees with min pay, holiday, working hours, protection for part timers, human rights laws etc..

If someone wants a gun then they will get one regulated or not. You will never stop that. You will still have a few shootings a year and people will complain about them saying it wouldn't happen if we had guns to defend ourselves. What you can stop are the daily shootings and mass killings that you have become used to as just the norm. You have desensitised to them due to their daily happenings. What I posted about Jo Cox was really shocking here in the UK... That was 1 person... it might not happen again for 5 years.. (or it could happen tomorrow again, true, but it just doesn't). Sure, Annie can get her gun regardless of regs... but it will be harder for her to find and if she is caught with one she will go down hard.

re: TiO2 - I can't find anything about this yet on the net... but watch that space - it is something they are driving for. Not nano TiO2, but any powdered form. As for the R&D - I see your point about exemption.... but whereas now I can call up and get samples from a supplier of pretty much anything, what if the thing I want to test is un registered? Who will have access to it to send me a sample? Who will be interested in letting me try it out as they won't be able to sell it to me if it is unregistered and won't be interested in paying for registration to sell it to me in small amount? John - can you honestly tell me that you think that REACH and the SDS is an improvement on our existing COSHH and MSDS system?

After an industrial meeting recently (I won't say which) - it was pointed out that only about a third of materials have been registered so far. The rest have to be registered by 2018 at the cost of £30k per raw material for full registration. For small companies that buy small lots of a niche chemicals it may mean that the manufacturers won't register them as it won't be financially viable for them. Great! Also, what happens for research!? What if I want to try/test a theory around using different materials? If they aren't registered (because no-one wants to pay for it) then how do we get them? Then how do we purchase them if tests are successful? Sorry - I still see it as a big con to make money for the EU. I have written the new style SDS's myself... when I called their helpline with questions the only answer I got was "we run a SDS writing service for £5k per sheet!"... Also!!! it has come to light that the French want to ban TiO2! Apparently the dust might have induced cancer in some rats whose lungs they filled with TiO2 50 years ago in some very small scale test. Ok - if true then it needs labelling as hazardous... BUT!!! they want all paints with TiO2 labelled as a carcinogen!... dumb, as (if true) it is the dust that would be the hazard, not the material bound up in a paint formulation. Do they even know what they are talking about!? Farcical, ill thought out money making scheme in my eyes. The EU could have adopted our COSHH system at much lesser cost and hassle.

Yes Strange it was Modrian, thanks. (I knew it had an R an O, D, I and an N in it somewhere ;-) ) Only ever seen the kiss in a photo.

I suspect a titanium shell with a heavy soft centre of lead or DU would be pretty good. Non magnetic would be good for countering future electric field type shield weapons.... but I think my imagination is running away with me now.

Ha! Yea - I went to the Duchamp week in Herne Bay a couple of years back... There was much talk of the urinal. "was he taking the piss or getting us to look at everyday objects in a different way.."? Bit of both I reckon. @Imat - That sounds like a fun prank! lol Took my nan to the Tate a year or 2 ago before she passed away... she was hilarious! We were looking at an exhibition of the artist that done all of the squares (Rhodin?) - she was dissing and laughing at all of them. I could see her point entirely, but I have a number of friends that are also artists, and I can relate to their points too... Squares on a page... could anyone do it? - Yes... did they? No. He was the first (or first to become famous for it), so it was art when he did it... if his style is copied today and even improved upon, then the originality isn't there so it isn't as good, even if it is better... lol.

QUOTE iNow" it's already too late, 3D printing plans..." Yea, but no one would DARE print one out for fear of the extremely hard penalties for owning a gun without a licence! ;-)

sorry - misheard the news on the radio.

yea, custard is non newtonian, so can run on it... but you'd probably sink if you walk.

Very sad news! Jo Cox - a British MP was shot and stabbed today at a public meeting. Tragic! She was only 31 years old and with 2 children and a husband. Terrible news!

Yet the application for a licence is very easy - it needs to be stricter (and run out across all states) and with proper penalties for vendors selling to people without a licence AND some form of ID. (so you can't just borrow your neighbours licence... which should also carry a heavy penalty for the guy who loans it to you.... photo id on the licence maybe?... as I said before - it's not rocket science)

The sun rising? - It has done so up to now, so why would we think any different? Also, just because an old book says something and people, out of fear or whatever other spurious reason, believe it, what makes you believe it when there is so much evidence to show that the book is clearly wrong in so many places? It is clearly a work of fiction or just a plain and simple lie. Also, I have an 'ancient' coin, from an ancient civilization - it is nearly 2.5k years old. Were do you get your definitions from? Try a dictionary maybe?

It could have been that they were put there deliberately, it was a couple of weeks ago at least and I didn't give the story much attention... this thread bought it back to mind. Maybe you are right, maybe the creator of the piece needs to actually intend it to be art - I am not sure.... In this mind though, is anything that is skilfully undertaken art? Was the deception and trickery of the person who tricked the people at the museum a work of art in itself? ;-)

They will play a part.... I would be willing to bet that it is a lot more complicated than that.

I don't hate them Tar... They had their purpose. I am an advocate of loving your neighbour and giving mercy, kindness, compassion and forgiveness. I guess I hate lies. What is the point of perpetuating this lie in this day and age? Also - it doesn't mean I hate them just because I said they are bunkum.... I don't hate the flat earthers, I am just pretty certain they are wrong based on what evidence I have seen. Do I think of them as intellectually challenged? Maybe, the flat earthers anyway, I know all too well why someone would fall for the god lie, I was taken in by it for many many years.

"Difficult to resolve one's Muslim faith with tolerance for gays....." I would have thought that in this day and age it would be hard to resolve any body's religious faith with the actual facts we know about the world. It is a load of tripe invented to control the masses - we know this now and need to get away from such bunkum.

Well it is up to you guys, if want this daily murder as part of your lives or not - it doesn't happen in any other civilised parts of the world. It will be easy to stop if you as a people accept licencing and control. Otherwise you'll continue to be tarred with the same brush as the other crazy nut case countries of the world.

@Delta and iNow - yes, thanks - I do know his hands were tied by congress, I was just saying if the government pass the law then the NRA will have to play by the rules as declared by the elected leaders (I would hope). @MigL - Yes - it might make make them think twice before selling to just any old Tom Dick or Harry that walks in... ...maybe you should have to have a licence to own a gun? that way all the background checks are done during licence application and the shop owner just looks at the customer's certificate that shows he has gun privileges.... ex cons, people with mental health problems or histories of violence do not get licences. Simple. ;-)

A week or 2 ago, someone dropped their glasses in an art gallery in an empty corner. They fell exactly parallel to the wall and floor pattern. People were crowding round them taking photos thinking that they were an art exhibit. Did it become art because it was perceived as art? Personally I think 'yes'.

@Tar -According to the Christian faith you should try to love your enemies... This can sometimes be hard, but, I find it a commendable stance. Just because I have worked out that the faith is utter BS doesn't mean I intend to rescind on the practices that I have strived to live by most my life... Although I have been guilty of NOT loving my enemies, I still think it is a commendable goal.... Still, how do you love a mass murderer? - I don't think you do - you love the people who have similar views and try to educate them to a better, kinder, more acceptable way of thinking. @SJ - As to reproductive success and evolved social and mental ideals, I would have thought that, even as little as a few hundred years ago, a certain amount of xenophobia would have been healthy and even necessary to survival in some groups... maybe we are going through an evolutionary change where we no longer need or desire to hate strangers and are striving to integrate the world into a single loving mind. There will be however, a remaining sense of fear at the unknown and of strangers due to our long past ancesters who needed to be cautious. So - (playing advocate) - maybe we should feel sorry for the poor guy who was so fuelled by hatred due to his outdated beliefs and his evolutionary retarded brain that he hates people so much he feels the need to mass murder them rather than accept them for who they are without fearing them... hmm, not sure - tough one.

Introduce background checks then - it isn't rocket science. Who cares what the NRA says? If the Government say you need background checks, which are clearly common sense, then the NRA will have to play ball or be replaced. Some of the more ignorant plebs in your population will be disgruntled, but fuck em, I can't believe ALL US citizens are ignorant gun toting monkeys. Yours is a country that I am kinda proud of in a way - it is a great country... but you need to educate your masses away from the idiocy of the FOX news broadcasters. Cut the propaganda and continue the regime of introducing and defending proper education and distribution of decent information to the masses. I know you Americans have mixed opinions, but as an out side observer, this Obama guy is the best president you have had in a long while - I hope the progress to proper social care etc continues with whoever you choose to replace him. I am just a bit surprised he hasn't done anything about this gun debacle.