DrP

You are not wrong... buuuut.. if we were a simulation of humans from the 20th/21st century to test out whatever the programmer was testing... all we would know was the level of tech you are talking about.. I am saying that there would be no way to actually know. your test might not work for a 30th century human sim bot programmed to think he was a human in the 21st century. Besides, it doesn't need to be a fully human sim robot... it just needs a brain/processor to think it is. (I do not believe that we are, obviously, but I am saying that I do not think you have a test to disprove that reality, and just saying "well I'd feel the wires coming out of my arse" or some thing to that effect that that other guy posted doesn't win the argument imo).

Well said Mordred. In defence of the topic though, talking about a scientific construct that replicates reality and then discussing philosophically about what it thinks.... does that not come under the title of the thread, Philosophy, Science and Reality? The whole simulation discussion is relevant imo, but I won't discuss it anymore - I only came in to comment on one post. PS - without wanting to continue off topic (although I don't believe it is) I do not agree with what you wrote in post#227 - it would depend upon how good the simulation was. You are presuming a simulation based on the technology we have now.

How do you know this? Again your response is "I don't believe it, I believe this"... and you can't see that you are doing it. QUOTE: "When did you stop beating your wife" I do not understand the question about beating my wife? Shall I ask you personal questions about your sexual desire for your own daughter? QUOTE: "Only a real mind could consider whether it was real or not" - Nonsense again - how can you possibly know this? You can't, it is what you believe but you do not know this for certain - it is impossible. QUOTE: "I am a realist .... can't prove a negative to prove their point" I am a realist too. You are totally missing the point again/as usual. I don't believe it either - I just can't PROOVE it. No -one can, so to say that "a computer would know it isn't real because of the wires coming out of it" or whatever idiocy you wrote back there is just jaw dropping. It's why I commented. It is also why I shouldn't have gotten involved, if you can't comprehend something so basic it is just as dumb of me for arguing with you.

The rock, though, will not believe itself to be human. Believe whatever you want - I'm not going round pages and pages with you repeating the same stuff... it's obvious. It's why I said "oh, never mind" with an implied face palm when I first entered the conversation as I knew you would just stick to your guns and just repeat the same stuff without actually bringing any actual substance to the discussion other than "I don't believe it". I'll ask one more time - "HOW can you prove you are not a simulation"? Just saying "It's obvious, I don't believe that I am" is not proof that you are not.

I don't believe they are lying to us either.... that's not the point. We have no way of proving this and wouldn't know if they were.

To say "it is a statement of fact" - is just ridiculous.. your definition of 'fact' is very different from mine then. You tell me - "HOW can you possible even test for that"? If you were a bot programed to think you were human then you would have no way of finding out. All of your senses could be programed to lie to you about actually reality. Obviously I do not think that this is the case, but there is no way you could possibly objectively check for this or not without using your own senses, which are what are under question in the first place. If you were a computer programmed to think you were human then you would think you were human - you wouldn't know about the wires. All of your senses could just be routines in the program and you'd have no way of testing what is real or not if the program was good enough.

I thought that the whole point was - how on earth could you even know if you were a simulation or not? How would you test it? How can you be sure or trust the results of any test as it could have been fed to you through your programming. I thought it was generally accepted that you cannot prove such a thing at all. At first I thought you could have been joking in post 216. How would a computer know if it had wires or not?... lol,. I still do not know if it was a humour attempt or not.

.... but, but, the computer wouldn't know it had wires and chips if it was a person simulator... oh, never mind.

What do you think of the flute sound from 0.34 seconds on in this tune? It comes and goes throughout the track and trades melodies with other instruments. Excuse the rather shrill intro I was experimenting. Some of the track I like but it does get weird in places, I am just posting it as an example of a simulated wind instruments. https://soundcloud.com/dr-p-20/gypsy-dance I do play the bass... that octo bass is aq bit much though, lol. Needs to be with an orchestra for sure.

Have a keyboard hooked up to a machine that plays the woodwind? Keyboards are easy in comparison. I can play stringed instruments best.... but from dabbling, keyboards are far easier when it comes to the fingering techniques and strength needed. There are some good settings on the kaosilator pro - the original was a toy, but this new one (the pro 2) is SO amazing. The wind settings sound like real instruments and the playability is SO intuitive. It uses a touch pad with left to right to adjust tone and notes (which you can have as an analogue sliding scale, chromatic steps or even set to a particular key, scale or mode) and has effects (volume, echo distortion whatever) on the vertical. It has a good drum machine and a looper built in (which could longer, you only get about 8 to 16 bars repeat) and I think it is supposed to be for DJs, but I LOVE it for soloing with wind instrument sounds or distorted guitar sounds. Honestly... I have played the guitar for over 30 years and still struggle to play the solos I want to play... I had this thing 5 mins and could convert what I was thinking in my head into the exact sounds nearly that I was going for... In 5 mins of playing with it you can be Joe Satriani - as you think of what you want to play and move your fingers over the pad - the sounds are generated. (I suppose it takes SOME talent to play - but so easy as you literally cannot hit a wrong not due to the fact you have set it to only hit notes from the key you want to play in). You can bend and slide note like you can on a guitar - it is very cool. I know this isn't what you were looking for - but thought I'd share it as it is kind of relevant.

That may be true in some cases, but it does sound like huge generalisation to me. I learnt that there is a Blackbird nesting in one of our storage buildings that doesn't seem too frightened of me as I walk through it.

I thought birds just had little holes... I'll have to look that up again when I get home - I probably shouldn't go searching for penises on the internet while I am here at work.

An observation of the positive effects on social behaviour. (I might have shared this before) I went to Amsterdam a good few years back with my brother. On the coach there were some 16 to 20 year olds that had been drinking on the ferry and were annoying everyone with their football hooligan style chanting and swearing and general yobbery on the coach. After 2 days in Amsterdam they were the last to be picked up and people started to comment when the bus stopped to get them that the peace was over and we'd have to put up with these yobs again for the drive home..... except when they boarded the bus they were pretty silent, except for a few polite nods, shy smiles and hellos to the old ladies on the bus as they made their way to the back of the bus where they spoke in whispers for the journey home, not making eye contact with anyone. This thoroughly amused everyone on the bus, who thought the transformation was amazing and very positive. Trouble at football matches in Holland when England play away?... not so much. lol.

Yes - some lack it, some have it to a high sensitivity - we pick up on all sorts of things through our ears and eyes and through smell and feeling. All complex feedbacks to the brain that processes the info and makes predictions - sometimes right and sometimes mistaken, sometimes felt strongly and sometimes ignored. It isn't telepathy though in any of these cases. Also - this pandabear88 is sounding a lot like tkadm30 with the mirror neuron obsession. Although the writing style does seem different.

But these mirror neurons aren't anything supernatural are they - we all have them? - everyone has the ability to sense what others are feeling (unless the target is experienced or practiced at hiding or masking emotion)... There are no special 'empaths'. We can all feel for each other, we are human. We pick up on the body language, facial features etc and our brain process the information and we 'feel' for the target. It isn't a direct brain to brain link via some kind of telepathy. Also, some people are more sensitive to stuff than others - so what? it doesn't make them supernatural empaths.

Love the lyrics to this - and it is a pretty good jam too... It does remind me of some of the conversations I've had on this forum from time to time too, lol.

Been jamming along with John Mayer and the late great BB King... BB King was awesome, but John Mayer really rocks it here in places.

I have read about the mozzie attraction to CO2 before. It still has to be more complicated. I used to go fishing with a mate of mine. He loved me going because all of the mozzies ate me and left him alone. lol... Some people attract them more than others.... maybe I just stink.

Yea - but they do this by puking all over your face first to pre-digest said skin, salt and oil, lol.

QUOTE: "love trumps hate" Is that why you guys were shooting at and teargasing what remains of the indigenous people of your land in Dakota earlier this week? I do not necessarily agree with their stance, but it IS kinda their homeland.... and no-one cares about them at all, it is like they are an embarrassment to you that you want to forget? Your whole country was based on people from all over the world flocking to the land and destroying the people that were there before you - so don't tell me your land was based on Christian values. Keep lying to your self if it makes you feel better.

Hi Tegan - You'd be better off starting a new thread asking for contributors in the title. Good luck.

ffs - fatally flawed surely

ASAP - As Soon As Possible ASAFP - As Soon As Fizzically Possible ASAFPP - As Soon As Fizzically Possible Please.

QUOTE: "Animals are better than humans in almost every way".... How? QUOTE "animals never do bad things to each other".. What rot. You know nothing about animals then, NOTHING at all - they can be VERY cruel to each other indeed.... when a lion takes over a new pride he drives off the old lion or kills it - then he kills ALL of the cubs, leaving the mother distraught, then rapes all of the females... yea, animals are better, sure. pfft! what total nonsense.

Observing one or two people from my own family who seemed to love animals more than humans I think I can say that their reasons for doing so were stated as "Animals have pure soles - they are perfect and can do no wrong"... Seeminly meaning that they are forgiven for their selfishness, murder, viciousness and greed as they know no better and act on instinct or do not have the cognitive ability to make proper decisions about good and evil. I think this comes from a belief that humans are not animals and have free will. Even so, I would challenge them that they need to love their fellow humans more (if they were to show selfless love). As much as I loved these people, and I found their love for animals admirable (A love a kind of share to an extent).... I found that the bitterness towards humans and the unconditional showering of love onto their pets whilst ignoring or neglecting humans close to them made me cringe and feel a bit sick. PS - as for animals being helpless - this is relative - as Phi suggested - drop a strong fit human into the middle of the Atlantic and see who is helpless then.