iNow

Yes, but none of that negates how Russia has acted since the cease fire. It's what they've been doing since the apparent truce that is causing the negative perception of them. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5gDNLWfQWKrQc48pITBUg9KT_6oVwD92HIM080 Russian troops and paramilitaries rolled into the strategic Georgian city of Gori on Wednesday, apparently violating a truce designed to end the conflict that has uprooted tens of thousands and scarred the Georgian landscape. The developments came less than 12 hours after Georgia's president said he accepted a cease-fire plan brokered by France. Russian President Dmitry Medvedev said Tuesday that Russia was halting military action because Georgia had paid enough for its attack last Thursday on South Ossetia. Bush said he was skeptical that Moscow was honoring the cease-fire. The EU peace plan calls for both sides to retreat to the positions they held prior to the outbreak of fighting late Thursday. That phrasing apparently would allow Georgian forces to return to the positions they held in South Ossetia and Abkhazia and clearly obliges Russia to leave all parts of Georgia except South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Georgia's President Mikhail Saakashvili criticized Western nations for failing to help Georgia, a U.S. ally that has been seeking NATO membership. "I feel that they are partly to blame," he said Wednesday. "Not only those who commit atrocities are responsible ... but so are those who fail to react. In a way, Russians are fighting a proxy war with the West through us." Russian at first denied that tanks were even in Gori but video footage proved otherwise. About 50 Russian tanks entered Gori in the morning, according to Lomaia. The city of 50,000 lies 15 miles south of South Ossetia, where much of the fighting has taken place. Leaders of five former Soviet bloc states — Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, Estonia and Ukraine — also appeared at the rally and spoke out against Russian domination.

Oh, please. Grow up. Let's just call it "forum shorthand." No need to be so unpleasant. I have remained consistent in my points even if you think otherwise.

It would seem that my concerns are shared across larger groups, so hopefully you can lay off the "me and Bascule make nothing but strawmen" BS... http://www.upi.com/news/issueoftheday/2008/08/13/Bush_team_bungled_big_time_on_Georgia_fiasco/UPI-32371218648531/ The scale of the Bush administration's failures in Georgia is now becoming clear: The issue was not just a routine bungle; it was a fiasco of monumental proportions. Read the link for well detailed support in 4 to 5 points. Bush is now, more than ever, a lame duck who has just been humiliated by Putin and the Russian army in Georgia, and he is desperately hoping global oil prices will continue to drop. But Russia is the second-largest oil exporter in the world and the largest exporter of oil and gas combined. Russia is therefore in a far stronger position to hammer the United States with economic retaliation for U.S.-imposed economic sanctions than the other way around. The great U.S. President Theodore Roosevelt recommended talking softly and carrying a big stick in the world of international relations. For seven and a half years, Bush has been talking loudly and carrying a stick whose military and economic clout has been shrinking by the year. Now he is paying the price. line[/hr] Thanks, Sayonara. I was rather confused by that, too.

Oh dear... This doesn't help my previous feelings about Bush. Look at what he said while addressing the people of Georgia on May 10, 2005: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050510-2.html# You gathered here armed with nothing but roses and the power of your convictions, and you claimed your liberty. And because you acted, Georgia is today both sovereign and free, and a beacon of liberty for this region and the world. (Applause.) The path of freedom you have chosen is not easy, but you will not travel it alone. Americans respect your courageous choice for liberty. And as you build a free and democratic Georgia, the American people will stand with you. I guess the American people will only stand with them if it isn't too hard, or if we're not too busy with more important things... Like slapping hot vollyball players on the ass at the Olympics. Video of his full speech to the Georgian people in 2005 available via RealPlayer here: http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/2005/05/20050510-2.v.html No big deal, right? They were only words of support from the leader of our nation... Yeah, yeah... I know. He came home and condemned the action... Only a few thousand people dead.

Interesting point. In my disappointment, it's possible I was missing a greater good. I just read about a new development. It's not clear that it came from Russia, but this story illuminates some issues we may see more frequently now as a new age of warfare: http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/13/technology/13cyber.html?hp Weeks before bombs started falling on Georgia, a security researcher in suburban Massachusetts was watching an attack against the country in cyberspace. Other Internet experts in the United States said the attacks against Georgia’s Internet infrastructure began as early as July 20, with coordinated barrages of millions of requests — known as distributed denial of service, or D.D.O.S., attacks — that overloaded and effectively shut down Georgian servers. Researchers at Shadowserver, a volunteer group that tracks malicious network activity, reported that the Web site of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, had been rendered inoperable for 24 hours by multiple D.D.O.S. attacks. They said the command and control server that directed the attack was based in the United States and had come online several weeks before it began the assault. As it turns out, the July attack may have been a dress rehearsal for an all-out cyberwar once the shooting started between Georgia and Russia. According to Internet technical experts, it was the first time a known cyberattack had coincided with a shooting war. In addition to D.D.O.S. attacks that crippled Georgia’s limited Internet infrastructure, researchers said there was evidence of redirection of Internet traffic through Russian telecommunications firms beginning last weekend. The attacks continued on Tuesday, controlled by software programs that were located in hosting centers controlled by a Russian telecommunications firms. A Russian-language Web site, stopgeorgia.ru, also continued to operate and offer software for download used for D.D.O.S. attacks. Over the weekend a number of American computer security researchers tracking malicious programs known as botnets, which were blasting streams of useless data at Georgian computers, said they saw clear evidence of a shadowy St. Petersburg-based criminal gang known as the Russian Business Network, or R.B.N.

Pioneer - You do recognize that this is a science forum and that you can't just make stuff up and expect to be taken seriously, right? Where is your empirical evidence that spanking cures ADD? I also remind you that the plural of "anecdotes" is not "evidence."

Nan - Have you ever read an actual scientific protocol for experiments using animals? The steps used to maximize their protection is extensive, and while I appreciate your desire to minimize the discomfort caused to animals, I think you are very misinformed about how the process actually works. This is not a black and white issue as you seem to suggest, but is instead a complex issue with many important caveats. It would help you to learn more about how it works before condemning the process outright.

I think the novelty and creativeness in his campaign speak well to how he will address problems once (if) in office. This particular approach really leverages our nations experience to "American Idol" style voting, and that's likely to have a rather powerful impact. He's connecting to the people using media with which they are very comfortable and experienced. I, however, didn't sign up for the text message because I know it will be all across the news outlets within minutes of it being sent... In other words, I have no need to be "first," just to know in a timely manner.

Nope. No scientist has EVER thought that animals want to live their lives without pain. None. Never. Maybe we should fire bomb the scientists, terrorize their families, and destroy their labs to show how much we don't want people to suffer. http://chronicle.com/news/article/4929/scientist-whose-house-was-firebombed-suffered-bruises-in-escape There's a huge difference between trying to protect animals as best we can and being complete nutjobs engaging in some animal rights terrorism. It's like the dumbasses who kill abortion doctors because "life is so precious."

Doesn't matter. That's not my position. I didn't say that there was nothing the guy could do that would rub me the right way. I said this particular event rubbed me wrong. That is a difference that's important to note. Either way, CDarwin hits on a good point. The event seems indicative of something larger going on in Russia.

That's a very interesting idea, Alan, but I'm curious why we wouldn't rather continue instead with the work being done on occipital impants and visual prosteses. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Visual_prosthetic http://www.bioen.utah.edu/cni/projects/blindness.htm http://www.temple.edu/ispr/examples/ex02_09_16b.html

This point seemed to need repeating.

What dictionary are YOU using? http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/partisanship Main Entry: 1par·ti·san Variant(s): also par·ti·zan \pär-te-zen, -sen, -,zan, chiefly British pär-te-'zan\ Function: noun Etymology: Middle French partisan, from north Italian dialect partiźan, from part part, party, from Latin part-, pars part Date: 1555 a firm adherent to a party, faction, cause, or person; especially : one exhibiting blind, prejudiced, and unreasoning allegiance a: a member of a body of detached light troops making forays and harassing an enemy b: a member of a guerrilla band operating within enemy lines As I said. I found his response embarrassing. That's a simple statement of opinion, not an adherence to a party, faction, cause, or person. And, I give SkepticLance a hard time for a lack of detail, exaggerations to the point of inaccuracy, and blatant misrpresentations of the positions of others, including the science he often tries to suggest supports his claims. However, Lance hasn't posted in this thread, so that's more than a red herring on your part. I'd read Bush's remarks prior to commenting in this thread. Twenty second photo ops were not what I was hoping for. I may be being hard on him, but I found his lack of seriousness distressing, his decision to keep playing at the Olympics misguided, and his blatant lack of leadership on this appalling. Let's just say it ripped the scab off of old wounds for me, okay? line[/hr] I just thought of a decent analogy to describe my feelings on this. I'm let down and disappointed because our president seems to have "Senioritis." He knows school is about to be over, and he doesn't really care about his grades or his finals or what he will do when his last semester ends. He's just focussed on having fun at spring break and going to the next kegger and I expect better from the highest office in the land. This all coupled with the moronic attack ads from the McCain campaign have me a bit miffed lately about how our "country is headed in the wrong direction." I'm embarrassed, that's really it. </context> Now, maybe you and I can end this or continue it elsewhere and let this thread get back on track? I accept my share of the responsibility for putting it off on a tangent, and I apologize to ecoli for that.

Well, it's about damned time: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7554507.stm Speaking moments after he arrived back in the US from the Beijing Olympics, President Bush said he was deeply concerned about reports of Russian intentions. He said he had seen reports that Russia might soon attack the Georgian capital, Tbilisi, which would, he said, represent a "dramatic and brutal escalation" of the conflict. "Russia's government must respect Georgia's territorial integrity and sovereignty," he said. "The Russian government must reverse the course it appears to be on." Russia's actions, Mr Bush added, were "jeopardising" its relations with the US and EU. He urged Moscow to accept an EU-brokered peace agreement that Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili has already signed. This was the strongest statement yet from President Bush and appeared to be aimed at drawing a line in the sand, preventing Russia from overthrowing the Georgian government, the BBC's Justin Webb reports from Washington. VIDEO of GWBush statement: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7555248.stm "US President George W Bush has denounced what he called Russia's "dramatic and brutal escalation" of the conflict with Georgia. He called for an immediate ceasefire and a withdrawal of Russian troops from the conflict zone. "

Rare like 1 in 4, or rare like 1 in 10^30?

But why would you want to give a tip to the tall dudes instead of the strippers? As for the lower center of gravity, yeah... I suppose you're right.

Do short men tip more than tall men?

I wonder why you used a 10 point scale instead of a 7 point Likert? Good luck with your research.

You know, an easier way to approach this problem would be to do an experiment with a large population sample. That way, nobody is relying on false premises and tortured logic to make conclusions. Oh, also... You can't really teach a kid "out of" their attention deficit disorder. http://www.nature.com/nrn/journal/v3/n8/abs/nrn896.html We propose that three such endophenotypes — a specific abnormality in reward-related circuitry that leads to shortened delay gradients, deficits in temporal processing that result in high intrasubject intertrial variability, and deficits in working memory — are most amenable to integrative collaborative approaches that aim to uncover the causes of ADHD.

Am I not allowed to be angry over the fact that we're not even capable of responding due to our consistent mistakes and the way we've over-extended ourselves elsewhere? Am I not allowed to be disgusted that he's more interested in having fun and jacking around than being the executive of our country? Am I not allowed to comment on the ridiculousness of the public image he is presenting the world during this time? Am I not allowed to recognize and accept all of those facts you pointed out and still be disappointed? Because, I am all of those things.

It's my opinion, Pangloss. No need to try shaming me publically for voicing it. I really couldn't care less if our leader is Republican or Democrat or Independent or Whig... This is a huge big situation, and I'd be admonishing any leader of the free world acting so carelessly during such a troubling time. Hence, your calls to my being partisan and propogating leftwing "dregs" is laughable. I've told you this before. I don't care about party. I don't care about sides on the aisle. I care about principle and doing what's right, and trying to improve things. Sipping on some beer and BBQ while watching basketball is hardly a presidential response, so go on and keep defending him. My points have nothing to do with the fact that he's republican, and everything to do with the fact that he's a poor leader who consistently acts inappropriately in the international arena. To be fair to your point, I suppose hanging out in Beijing and having lots of fun watching basketball and swimming for several days is not quite as bad as to even flinch after being told the country was under attack. http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j3b6xoPSXQAc5AoJwqPQit9OtitgD92FPIFO0 White House officials refused to indicate what recourse the United States might have if the military onslaught continues. A Russian official said more than 2,000 people had been killed in South Ossetia since Friday; the figure could not be confirmed independently. The president was to end his weeklong stay to Asia by attending a baseball game and other events Monday at the Beijing Olympics. The trip was meant mostly for fun and games — there have been plenty of both. But the fast-moving conflict in Georgia has grabbed his attention. Well, golly... I sure as hell hope so.

And where did you substantiate the efficacy of those "lines of action?"

...

All of that is perfectly consistent with the stance I took, the one against which you argued, that there are different types of bullying behavior and different motivations and different mindsets. I appreciate you supporting your point. You have taught me about one additional mindset of some bullies in some places, but you are mistaken if you think that every bully is self-confident and has high self-esteem. Your own reference proves this point, the one I've been making for the last several posts. You should take careful note of the use of the word "often" in the quotes you've shared. It doesn't say "always." I think we've derailed this thread quite enough. I'm happy that I've made myself clear, and I will allow you to share whatever misrepresentations you want moving forward. Enjoy.

Erm... no it's not. That is the first link in Bookers post right above yours.