Phi for All

Is this homework?

The topic is fine. The problem is your approach to discussing it. Einstein's theories had nothing to do with either biology or politics. You're projecting one analogy Einstein used onto a situation where it's not appropriate. Analogies have very discrete and limited application. The trampoline analogy isn't even a good one for gravity, and confuses lots of people. This is what I mean. This is a False Dilemma. There are other situations that can cause change on the level you're talking about. You're basing your argument on something demonstrably false. There are other globe-affecting phenomena besides war, like severe weather or contact from off-world or even a global pandemic. Then you assume a world war will be a great thing, ushering in a new era of stability. How has that worked out for many of the world's war-torn countries? When you make assertions like this, you need to back them up with evidence, or state them so they're obviously your opinion. Or you could start by asking some questions, get some people interested in DISCUSSING this with you, rather than trying to preach or blog at us. So far, your science isn't at the level where you should be drawing conclusions without a LOT of outside input. This is the part where you're supposed to discuss your ideas with peers to make sure they can stand a rigorous beating. Well, when you can handle forum discussion and tough questions about your arguments, start another thread.

No, this is demonstrably false. OK, so you haven't studied any evolution, so proper responses won't be understood. What prompted you to just make stuff up? Do you think this is a reasoned argument? The rest of your post was built on this nonsense, so there's really nothing constructive to say about it. Wrong, please study the subject, and take another try at it later?

! Moderator Note Rule 2.1 says: Slurs or prejudice against any group of people (or person) are prohibited. Nobody is interested in your bigotry, and your posts are aimed more at controversy and prejudice than discussion. If this is your A game, please take it elsewhere. This is a science discussion forum.

! Moderator Note If you open another thread on this topic, please remember to phrase it so others can participate, and leave out the dramatic blogging (OMG, the only way to stop the trampoline!!!). This is a science forum, and rants are boring. This one is closed for being a big old ugly soapbox.

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Engineers should never design systems that make the engineer redundant.

You are, but I blame Mr Spock from Star Trek. He never used formal logic, but he became synonymous with the word "logical", and now whole generations are using a bad definition.

The OP wants to discuss formal logic. What you're commenting on is more like "reasonableness", or "things that make sense to me".

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Overgeneralization is the simple part. Assertions like this need more though, otherwise you're just soapboxing. Do you have any evidence to support them?

! Moderator Note You can only have one of these accounts. Sockpuppets are against the rules. Which one would you like to keep?

The long-time members have all been through the process of learning to avoid behavior that hampers discussion, but we still see a lot of posts that attack people instead of ideas, and fallacious logic being used as arguments. It's always good to remind ourselves that having peers to discuss things with is a very valuable tool, and it needs to be cared for respectfully. You lot are often the sanest part of my day, and it's really appreciated. Many of the newbies don't understand discussion, and tend towards blogging or making over-generalized statements. There was a recent one where the poster claimed something universal about all vegetarians, and when called out on it, they dialed it back to "many may feel this way". How can they know they're likely to be downvoted or chastised if they jump on a soapbox right away? It's obvious a lot of new joins aren't reading the rules first.

! Moderator Note This is a science discussion forum. It's not a pulpit or a soapbox for your grievances. Pick part of this rant and decide what you want others to join you in discussing. And please avoid generalizations and assertions you can't support, like your last sentence. Do better, please.

Cultsmash has been banned for confusing their soapboxy ranting for interesting discussion, and other abuses nobody here deserves. Hopefully, we're really the last forum that has to deal with them.

! Moderator Note OK, that's all for you here.

! Moderator Note Let's have NO MORE of that, please. Use the words that are written.

And you've distilled them all down to a few remarks that fit your worldview, yes, we get it. You so great. Discussion should be interesting, though. Do you think this prejudice of yours is interesting?

I'm sure she and other women feel safer knowing you're out there trying to fix their lives via internet photographs.

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So you're slow to realize that the words you use in this context are important. I'll repeat it again, it's easier to commoditize slaves in our minds than it is to think about keeping enslaved humans, because you're removing their humanity. I feel similarly about torture.

OK, but I didn't mention slavery itself. I mentioned how we still justify the past kidnapping and enslaving real people by thinking of them as "slaves", like a commodity bought and sold, and are only now coming to realize how harmful even that thinking was. A slave just isn't the same thing as an enslaved human. I think there must be similar nuance wrt torture for our modern times, or we're not progressing.

I hope it's been shown that you can devise a scenario in which people are painted into a corner that makes torture seem like a valid solution to the problem. Considering how many hoops you need to jump through to make it seem justified, perhaps this is a signal that torture doesn't align itself well with modern humanity. After all, we're slowly realizing that slaves were actually people who were kidnapped and enslaved, so maybe there's something undeniably wrong about torturing another person that we're not realizing... yet.

I don't agree at all. The only way, imo, that you make torture effective even in the extreme scenarios we've been talking about is to have a professional torturer, someone who could be effective (if that's possible) and still retain their sanity, if such a "person" exists. How can the choice of torturers be irrelevant when you then assert that the father would be "a poor choice for a number of different reasons"?

Then this is probably where we differ. I think you're assuming the father can make do with a few broken fingers, and enough blood to make the perp say he's sorry while he's telling him where the child can be found. You know, manly macho tough guy stuff. I think you're forgetting that the father may have to pay a much steeper price if he has to use some acid, flay some skin, and pull some teeth and fingernails to get information, even if it's accurate. I hope the state that sent this father into the kidnapper's cell will pay for therapy for the rest of his life. It was a criminal burden they put on that father.