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But they don't decide to actively believe in self-evidently ludicrous things. They believe in things that are self-evidently true, or at least self-evidently possible. None of them are basing their beliefs on what is self-evident to you, they are basing their beliefs on what is self-evident to them. If a theist were to evaluate you based on what is self-evident to them, I imagine they would conclude you were broken.

And how did you come to know that they believe it only because someone else told them so?

So is John a barnacle, or a blue whale? From my favorite science journal: http://www.maxim.com/funny/the-10-biggest-dicks-the-animal-kingdom

No, but the same can be said for every single thread that is started on this site. People have their say because they enjoy it, not because they are changing the world.

So how far away does the 'surface onto which the shadow is cast' have to be from the object blocking the light? Is it a shadow if it is cast on the moon? How about if it is cast on the ISS? What if it is cast onto my face? It seems to me that anything above the surface of the earth is cast in shadow.

There may be nothing at the center of gravity. For example, the center of gravity of a sitting person is in front of that person. Weightless relative to that mass, yes. No, there is plenty of gravity, but at that point gravity pulling from all directions is equal.

Are you trying to make a point about the topic at hand? If so I missed it.

I don't recall my parents being particularly afraid of snakes. My sister used to own a couple of snakes when she was living with my parents but I had moved out by then. I don't recall being as fearful of them when I was younger as I am now, but I never liked them. Much to the surprise of anyone who knows me I let both my kids keep snakes in aquariums in their rooms. I mean, why not? One was a baby corn snake and the other was some type of boa. And on occasion when they were handling them I would ask to hold them too. I was a little nervous taking them but it would wrap around my wrist and just look around. THEN, it would aim its little head at me and slowly move toward my face. HOLY CRAP! I really had to hold back my impulse to throw it on the ground to get it away from me. One of the kids would jump up and take it from me and I'd be really shook up for about 10 minutes. It gives me the heebie jeebies just typing it now. I have no other irrational fears. I took on two pit bulls once that were attacking a puppy and while my adrenaline was up I wasn't terribly frightened. I'll squish spiders, and I watched the doctor do a c section on my wife. It seems really weird to me that snakes cause such a reaction in me. I can logically tell m self there is nothing to fear, and I can get myself to hold one on occasion (even though I'm ill at ease), but if it does ANYTHING that seems 'snake like' while I'm holding it, I just about lose it.

Really? You've decided to go down that road?

But of course your thread is titled "People who believe in God are "NOT" broken". I thought that was the assertion we were trying to settle. Are we also trying to settle whether or not ALL people are broken? Because if so, I think that is far from settled.

So it's settled. People who believe in God are broken But that is not really the question. The question is, is a belief in God indicative of a break in one's ability to reason and understand the world. Whether or not people are broken in other ways was not what the original thread was addressing.

Yes, I'm sure. I was using normal as in: adjective 1. conforming to the standard or the common type; usual; not abnormal; regular; natural. ...and uncommon as in: adjective. unusual - rare - extraordinary - exceptional - infrequent

Well, it may be uncommon, but that doesn't make it any less normal. Yeah, I wasn't defending those statements, only the statement that deliberate self deception does happen. I'm not quite sure what he meant by 'a sign of humanity'. If he meant it was 'normal', I agree. If he meant it was 'found in a majority of the population', I have my doubts.

Well I can only speculate, but let's look at someone who finds himself in a dire predicament such as being on death row, dealing with the death of a child, in abject poverty, or maybe with some god awful disability or disease. I suspect that just as in the above examples, people can get themselves to believe in something because of the peace of mind it brings with it. If you are searching for something to relieve that mental anguish and belief in god brings that relief, I imagine it is something that can be done. It is probably even self fulfilling. If you start believing and you find strength and peace, you will be more likely to believe even more. I seem to remember a previous thread talking about the number of theists in prison. I'm curious how many 'found god' after they went to prison. Since (if I remember correctly) a higher proportion of the poor population are theists, there seems to at least be a correlation. And the anecdotal statement that 'there are no atheists in foxholes' was probably based on some kernel of truth.

Not that I ever remember getting a lesson to be afraid of snakes, but even if I did, why doesn't my very clear understanding and strong belief in the fact that black snakes are in no way harmful to me, reduce the intensity of my response?

I remember reading about a study where people were offered a club membership at a set price, with the price ranging from very high to very low for the exact same membership. Consistently, the higher the price, the more the purchaser perceived value. The lower the price paid, the less value that was perceived. I've seen people dumped by a girlfriend/boyfriend and explain how that person was basically a jerk and a waste of time. If they got back together all they could think of was how great they were. To me these seem like deliberate acts of self deception in order for the person to justify their circumstances and decisions, and gain some peace of mind. Just because I cannot choose to believe you are a butterfly does not mean I cannot convince myself of something else.

I suspect that an abused woman who claims her husband is a good man, didn't mean it, did it because she provoked him, etc., is another example of choosing to believe something they know to be false. Another example might be some of the climate change deniers, or maybe racists.

That's just MEAN, man!

A while back I saw an 80 foot black snake crossing my driveway (Okay, maybe he was about four feet long). Anyway, when I saw him I got a quick shot of adrenaline (I assume) and it scared me. But not enough to keep from walking up to about 10 feet from it. It then moved around to the other side of the tree and out of sight for a moment. I walked over a bit so I could see him again, and when I spotted him right where I thought he should be, still about 10 feet from me, I got another shock. Now I know he is not harmful to me, and I had just seen him a moment prior, and I knew he would be there when I got around the tree, yet I was still scared when I saw him. I would rather have to grab a pit bull by the balls than be in the same room as a harmless black snake. When I quickly went into the house my wife asked why I locked the door as I came in. I didn't even realize I did it. I also have bad dreams about snakes on a fairly regular basis. It feels like a fear of snakes is built into me. I don't fear any other animals like that. And on a side note, is there any way we can delete that picture from the first post?!?!

I've noticed the same thing and I agree that we should not judge until we get to know the person. Unfortunately the prejudiced person often doesn't recognize it in himself.

You don't seem to think much of people like me. It is unfair to characterize us as immature simply because we disagree with you. Sort of like Civil Rights legislation, or the right to vote for women. Again, some people, like me, don't see lowering the drinking age as simply a mechanism to generate additional kegger parties.

The question was, "Do you think that will be statistically significant?", not "Does a poll make sense to public?".

No

You need to be careful when saying 'never'. It is possible to falsify scientific laws.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_Boson http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_God_Particle:_If_the_Universe_Is_the_Answer,_What_Is_the_Question%3F